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4 minutes ago, AxB said:

We were talking about move downgrading in the AEW thread, and how Superkicks used to be a kill move, and now they're like a clothesline, part of a finishing sequence but nobody expects it to be the actual finish. And we've seen that with the DDT and the various Ace Crusher ripoff moves and so on. But can anyone think of a move that's been upgraded from being just a move, to being a lethal finish? Because the last one I remember is.... The Superkick. When Shawn was still doing a Belly to Back Suplex as a finisher, he'd use the Superkick as a nearfall or transition move, even though it looked better than his finish.

This answer is probably cheating but when Big Show's finish was just punching a guy in the face 

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Cena is essentially just doing a fireman's carry.

Move downgrading isn't permanent. Any move can become a death move, it's just that no one bothers to protect moves anymore.

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I mean, we live in a world where the piledriver and tombstone piledriver are death moves in Mexico, but CMLL guys use the Canadian Destroyer as a mid-match move..

I think it's sorta like video games, where certain moves can be death if hit at the right time, but also you can have CAWs who use all the finishers and get nothing out of them. Maybe it's too much work to say that some people are better at doing certain moves than others. Like how Vlad Jr hitting a baseball with a certain swing will go farther than if you hit the baseball with the same swing

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8 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Cena is essentially just doing a fireman's carry.

Move downgrading isn't permanent. Any move can become a death move, it's just that no one bothers to protect moves anymore.

I think it was Heyman that said Mark Henry could’ve used a headlock as a finish and he’s totally right. It depends on the performer and how much they commit to the move.

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Plus there is the issue of whether a Rainmaker is just a Clothesline, or whether the ripcord aspect of the move also does damage. Is the Shining Wizard more damaging than a regular running knee because the step up both increases upward momentum, and prevents the victim from recoiling?

None of which explains why a Belly to Belly Suplex from Magnum TA, Shane Douglas or Bayley is more devastating than one from a Steiner.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Sasha as AOC five months ago was the money-making gimmick/performer. 

She's still Fox's top heel for the foreseeable future, so much so that they're babyfacing Pelosi on the caucus infighting. I think Sasha's going to have that option available for a while.

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy

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1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

They got split after the last Shakeup

Story of Gable's career

2016-2017: Gable/Jordan on SDL until Jordan sent to RAW
2017-2018: Gable then teams with Shelton until Gable is sent to RAW
2018-2019: Gable then teams with Roode until Gable is sent back to SDL

now awaiting his next teammate.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

Story of Gable's career

2016-2017: Gable/Jordan on SDL until Jordan sent to RAW
2017-2018: Gable then teams with Shelton until Gable is sent to RAW
2018-2019: Gable then teams with Roode until Gable is sent back to SDL

now awaiting his next teammate.

He worked one match on 205 Live last month that accidentally ended in a count-out. The match was fantastic and they could have used the count-out to justify a rematch or a series of rematches.

Then... nothing. 

He worked Buddy Murphy on a couple live shows this weekend. *sigh*

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy

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8 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

He worked one match on 205 Live last month that accidentally ended in a count-out. The match was fantastic and they could have used the count-out to justify a rematch or a series of rematches.

Then... nothing. 

He worked Buddy Murphy on a couple live shows this weekend. *sigh*

Dude should've been the one to retire Angle.

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46 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

He worked one match on 205 Live last month that accidentally ended in a count-out. The match was fantastic and they could have used the count-out to justify a rematch or a series of rematches.

Then... nothing. 

He worked Buddy Murphy on a couple live shows this weekend. *sigh*

If they don't do anything with Gable, he's going to be this generations greatest missed opportunity for the WWE.

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Gable also had that tag match where it was Revival vs. Gable and Apollo Crews one on of the West Coast house shows that supposedly was outstanding too.

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58 minutes ago, mystman said:

Dude should've been the one to retire Angle.

Didn't you see Kurt after their match?  He did.

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24 minutes ago, Phantom Lord said:

If they don't do anything with Gable, he's going to be this generations greatest missed opportunity for the WWE.

Dude, Ricky Ortiz is still considered in this generation.

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On 7/10/2019 at 9:19 AM, Casey said:

It’s funny, because Enzo claimed in the original Janela tweet thread that he wasn’t a wrestler.

Because he fucking sucked at it. He's still cornering Cass under his ridiculous new name "Caz XL".

 

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37 minutes ago, Ace said:

Because he fucking sucked at it. He's still cornering Cass under his ridiculous new name "Caz XL".

 

Or as this flyer for an appearance reads, CAZXL, which sounds like a shitty CMLL undercard guy or something.

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As seen in the pictures thread Sasha Banks spent her week training with Sendai Girls and Dick Togo.  

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11 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

As seen in the pictures thread Sasha Banks spent her week training with Sendai Girls and Dick Togo.  

It probably won’t lead to this... But I hope she ends up going to Japan somehow. Joshi’s is in desperate need of a headline grabber. New Japan already had their big gaijin draws. Time for a Joshi promotion to get it too.

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1 minute ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

It probably won’t lead to this... But I hope she ends up going to Japan somehow. Joshi’s is in desperate need of a headline grabber. New Japan already had their big gaijin draws. Time for a Joshi promotion to get it too.

This will probably never happen but I'd love if WWE started loaning out talent to other promotions like in football (soccer).  Let Sasha go work Sendai for a year.  She'll be happy and maybe she raises her stock even more working in Japan and then she can come back to WWE.  

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"Now it's time for Mieko's special dropkick training."

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God that was brutal

"You're taking the piss!" *THWACK*

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I think Sasha's whole ambitions out weighing her ability thing might be a recipe for disaster if she were to wrestle for Sendai.

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4 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Dude, Ricky Ortiz is still considered in this generation.

I miss Ricky Ortiz. Dude married Layla El so winning all around.

Bring him back and stick him in a tag team with No Way Jose.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I miss Ricky Ortiz. Dude married Layla El so winning all around.

Bring him back and stick him in a tag team with No Way Jose.

Fuck no... Don’t team him with that loser. Team him with one of the richest jobbers ever, Mojo.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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7 hours ago, AxB said:

Plus there is the issue of whether a Rainmaker is just a Clothesline, or whether the ripcord aspect of the move also does damage. Is the Shining Wizard more damaging than a regular running knee because the step up both increases upward momentum, and prevents the victim from recoiling?

None of which explains why a Belly to Belly Suplex from Magnum TA, Shane Douglas or Bayley is more devastating than one from a Steiner.

 

As I try to reply to this post I end up thinking (perhaps for the first time) of what the kayfabe logic behind the belly to belly suplex is supposed to be.

Assuming it's thrown for impact (i.e. throw, release, then go for a hook-the-leg cover) I guess it's supposed to be that the victim has the wind knocked out of them for longer than 3 seconds and is thus unable to break a 3 count pinfall.  Obviously plausible with Yokozuna, or even Rikishi or Umaga.  Douglas and Magnum, I suppose we're supposed to buy that it's a wrestling/leverage thing, and guys who do the move all the time practice it more and thus are more precise about which part of the opponent's body drives into the mat first to knock the most wind out of them.  But boy do I feel like I'm reaching badly now.

The other way for it to work (and what I think, psychology/character wise, Bayley should be doing if physically possible) is as a hold, more so than a throw.  Trap the opponent's arms against their body (like in a bear hug), throw them, and hold on for an immediate no-release pinning combination.  "LOL socially awkward dorks always hugging people way too long/way too hard because they don't know any better/are too desperate to be friendly, of course nobody can wriggle out of Bayley glomping them to death in time."  But also, with the arms trapped against the body by the geek-strength fueled vice like hug grip of Bayley, the victim can't use them to leverage and "push" for a kick out.  Breaking contact to hook the leg frees up the victim's arms and actually makes it easy to shoot the shoulder up.  [But I suppose the reason people don't take the belly to belly with their arms trapped against their body is its easier to control the bump/protect themselves and the thrower that way.]

 

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