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August 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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Keith Lee explained why he was gone for months recently in a new youtube video. (Link below in box) I remember when some people with VMDS tried to pin it on Vince.

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Edited by D.Z
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4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I’m guessing some people will say that guarantees that neither of them should be fired for the next year. 

Like, morally they shouldn't, or referring to injury time tacked onto the end of the deals like Bryan, Rey, etc?

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Here is a summary for those that can't watch (via WON)

Quote

In a video uploaded on Thursday, Keith Lee explained why he was unable to wrestle for five months from February to July.

Lee said he contracted COVID-19 this January and was off television for about three weeks because of it. He came back for one match against Riddle in February, but he got a call the next day informing him that there was something off in his blood.

"Some people may have experienced this thing where there's like an inflammation in the heart or lungs, for me it was the heart," Lee said. "That led to very scary times. I was basically forbidden from training or any activity outside of a light walk. There was a fear that doing more than that -- that there was a chance that I could just up and pass away."

Lee said this was the case for three or four months, and he had several MRIs on his heart.

"So this became a fight against death, so to speak," Lee said. "And it took up until the company sent me to Pittsburgh to get looked at. It was to the point where I was about to have to undergo genetic testing and all sorts of things because it was thought that there was a potential I could have a heart disease of sorts.

"Very fortunately, even though it took a long time -- we waited that amount of time -- for that allowed the inflammation in my heart to eventually go down to normal. So even though the first MRI was bad and the second one was worse, over time things got better here and there. And eventually after that visit I was cleared to try and get back into some sort of shape. [Laughs] That's where the real struggle is. But, yeah, it took some time. And to be honest, it wasn't even certain that I was going to show up in Dallas, in terms of on TV."

Lee made his return to the ring on the July 19 episode of Raw at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas. He lost a non-title match against WWE Champion Bobby Lashley on that show. He's since had two matches with Karrion Kross on Raw. 

Lee said he greatly appreciates the fans who cared about his situation. He said he doesn't really know what's next for him, but he's healthy and fought the battle that mattered most. Lee said that's all he and his family can ask for. Lee said now he's going to move forward and fight to make the most of what he can do in WWE. 

Lee also clarified during the video that his fiancee Mia Yim only contracted COVID-19 in January because she refused to not take care of him. Yim had to miss this year's women's Royal Rumble match due to testing positive for COVID-19.

 

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4 hours ago, D.Z said:

Keith Lee explained why he was gone for months recently in a new youtube video. (Link below in box) I remember when some people with VMDS tried to pin it on Vince.

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It's interesting how Vince/WWE always immediately get the blame for everything.

"The Kabuki Warriors? Good old racist Vince/WWE" "Oh, the wrestlers chose it themselves? Nevermind"

"Breaking up the Iiconics? Idiotic Vince/WWE" "Oh, Peyton Royce requested it? Nevermind"

There's probably a ton more instances, but I haven't been paying much attention to wrestling for a few years. This isn't a defence of them either. I haven't watched WWE in years. It's incredibly dull to me, and one of the many breath of fresh airs that AEW provides is not having Vince's brand of puerile humour all over it. They do deserve a lot of flack, but I also think they get a bad rap sometimes when not always deserved.

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Rewatched some bits of the documentary WWE put out on CM Punk. It's still hilarious to see Miz's glowing praise in his talking-head bits while Punk's stance seems to firmly be "pushing Miz over me was the straw that broke the camel's back, fuck that hack." 😄

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With all the recent developmental change chatter, is there any argument that OVW was the most successful version of developmental ever?  They produced so many future top stars in such a short period.  

Or was a lot of that just down to recruitment? Did they just stumble upon a crop of blue chippers all at once?   Batista, Cena, Orton, Brock were all kind of “can’t miss” prospects to begin with based on their size and look alone.  Even most of the Mid card guys were excellent from the time.

I sort of understand their theory that you can teach wrestling, but you can’t teach size, which seems to be what they are aiming for.

 

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15 hours ago, Ultimo Necro said:

With all the recent developmental change chatter, is there any argument that OVW was the most successful version of developmental ever?  They produced so many future top stars in such a short period.  

Or was a lot of that just down to recruitment? Did they just stumble upon a crop of blue chippers all at once?   Batista, Cena, Orton, Brock were all kind of “can’t miss” prospects to begin with based on their size and look alone.  Even most of the Mid card guys were excellent from the time.

I sort of understand their theory that you can teach wrestling, but you can’t teach size, which seems to be what they are aiming for.

 

It was the most successful because it was actually a developmental territory (along with a brief time HWA, Deep South, and FCW). You could work on your all around abilities (in-ring, personality, promos, etc.) without fear of scrutiny on a national stage and/or trying to win WON match of the year. It was a real dress rehearsal. Other than like local mainstays like a Flash Flanagan, you didn't have a whole bunch of guys who had years and years of experience under their belt before going. You're recruiting guys with all the same experience level (0-4 years), and molding them under your watch. I think the latter is the most important because I think WWF/WWE had all the confidence in those guys because they came up under their watch. Plus, in return, those guys knew they would be headed for something big as opposed to the average male or female wrestler in NXT now. You knew at the very least you would be an upper midcard guy or at worst win one of the secondary titles. You would have some type of run and probably have a chance to get paid for a very long time if you played your cards right. In OVW and their other developmental places (even counting USWA/Power Pro), it was only a few usually lower card guys you knew that had no chance of doing anything ever once they hit the main roster. And hell, a good portion of them never did. Now? Even the top guys and girls are dead on arrival. Why? Cause it's not developmental, and they don't truly trust folks with some exceptions who were built and built their reputations in the indies (you ever heard Bruce rip on Ring of Honor?). 

It is what it is. They let Paul have his vanity project, it worked really well for awhile, and then they ended the project once it finally reached its shelf life.

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OVW was generally very watchable in its own right.  The year Paul Heyman booked OVW is still one of my favorite years of a promotion.  And, by that point, most of the top talent had already gotten called up to the main roster.  Johnny Jeter and Matt Cappotelli were the lead heel and face for much of the year.

 

 

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I didn't see a whole lot of Matt Cappotelli (apart from his stuff with Johnny Jeter), but I thought that Jeter could have been a pretty good guy on the main roster. If memory serves, he had a very enjoyable match with Kanyon. The Spirit Squad gimmick really did him dirty.

The other standout memory I have of actual angles was CM Punk/Brent Albright, but that was Heyman's booking rather than Cornette's, I believe. After seeing that, I had high hopes for Brent Albright on SmackDown!, but alas. Same with Paul Birchall. The few memories I have of him in OVW, he came across really well.

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It's funny looking back that Hunter (and Shawn) basically did to the Spirit Squad what Vince (and Dunn and Prichard and whoever) have done to his NXT call-ups.

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Who are some wrestlers or tag teams that you haven't seen enough of that you need a deep dive on? Note this can be anyone from anytime even if footage doesn't exist. 

After this last week, I realized I have not watched nearly enough Midnight Express and British Bulldogs. On the singles side, maybe someone like Ray Stevens and, honestly, I haven't watched enough Liger. 

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30 minutes ago, Hagan said:

Who are some wrestlers or tag teams that you haven't seen enough of that you need a deep dive on? Note this can be anyone from anytime even if footage doesn't exist. 

After this last week, I realized I have not watched nearly enough Midnight Express and British Bulldogs. On the singles side, maybe someone like Ray Stevens and, honestly, I haven't watched enough Liger. 

Adrian Street. The idea of a Goldust gimmick that works British style sounds amazing but I’ve seen basically nothing 

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I haven't seen a ton of Adrian Street,  but everything I have has been great.  I think the effeminate gimmick works best with a worker who you believe can really fuck somebody up, and Adrian Street could fuck people up.

Mine would probably be Billy Robinson.  I've only seen a handful of his matches and most of those were from the tail end of his career.

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Watched the Kerry/Flair cage match from World Class with the Freebirds turn. Knowing what we know now about Hayes, Michael Hayes showing up to be a shirtless co-referee seems like the exact thing that Michael Hayes would do.

Also his refereeing would have been superannoying if it didn't end with a turn. (It's on the show dated 12/27 on the Peacock WWE Network, and it's on Youtube too).

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1 hour ago, Roman said:

I didn't see a whole lot of Matt Cappotelli (apart from his stuff with Johnny Jeter), but I thought that Jeter could have been a pretty good guy on the main roster. If memory serves, he had a very enjoyable match with Kanyon. The Spirit Squad gimmick really did him dirty.

The other standout memory I have of actual angles was CM Punk/Brent Albright, but that was Heyman's booking rather than Cornette's, I believe. After seeing that, I had high hopes for Brent Albright on SmackDown!, but alas. Same with Paul Birchall. The few memories I have of him in OVW, he came across really well.

I will never stop being amazed how badly Albright and Bruchill were botched on the main roster. Brent at least did stuff in ROH after being released, but I have no idea what happened to poor Paul Burchill after he was released from WWECW?

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1 hour ago, Hagan said:

Who are some wrestlers or tag teams that you haven't seen enough of that you need a deep dive on? Note this can be anyone from anytime even if footage doesn't exist. 

After this last week, I realized I have not watched nearly enough Midnight Express and British Bulldogs. On the singles side, maybe someone like Ray Stevens and, honestly, I haven't watched enough Liger. 

Billy Robinson, Pat Patterson/Ray Stevens are the first names to pop into my head. Seen relatively little of any of them.

Would love to have the ability to just watch every match Terry Funk ever wrestled. Like, I've seen a ton of his career, but I'd love to be able to see it *all*.

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There’s almost no Stevens worth seeing. There are one or two Snunka tags from 80 you should see and that’s about it. 

There are probably 30 Patterson matches you should see.

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1 hour ago, Zimbra said:

I haven't seen a ton of Adrian Street,  but everything I have has been great.  I think the effeminate gimmick works best with a worker who you believe can really fuck somebody up, and Adrian Street could fuck people up.

He was a real beneficiary of the "All British Wrestlers are shooters" thing that existed in American Wrestling in the mid-late 20th century. In his WoS matches, Street was for more the classic cowardly exotico heel. But once he went to America, there was added a "Brits are Legits" aspect that really deepened the character.

1 hour ago, Shartnado said:

I will never stop being amazed how badly Albright and Bruchill were botched on the main roster. Brent at least did stuff in ROH after being released, but I have no idea what happened to poor Paul Burchill after he was released from WWECW?

Retired, married an American (not his pretend Sister) and became a Firefighter. Never did a single indie show after WWE.

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