The Old School Questions thread

[Log 805]

Don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but I think the blue cage had some other purposes.  One, it was easier to shoot for television.  It had the bigger openings that a camera could see through.  Also, those big openings made it easier to climb, especially for WWF's larger wrestlers.  I think its first appearance was the Hogan/Bundy match at WM2.  Two huge guys there.  

[AxB 6,535]

By bringing that up, you're dragging this into the realm of the merits of the "escape to win" cage match concept discussion. And we had that discussion (and the best cage match ever discussion) quite recently.

No blue bar match ever measures up to Blanchard vs Magnum in the "Winner marries loser's ex wife and raises their daughter" match, btw.

[Rocco 63]

Whats the deal with Bob Sapp never being in WWE?  I beleive he was under contract with WCW when WWE bought it and cnsidering Vince's obession with size an JR's love of football players seems like they would have went nuts for him.  

[BurningBeard 3,943]

No idea about the buyout, but I do remember RUMOURZ of WWE being interested in him when he was at the height of his popularity in Japan but they couldn't offer him enough money to make it worthwhile. 

 

[Technico Support 7,350]

On 11/5/2019 at 7:22 PM, The Great ML said:

I remember someone referring to the blue bar cage like running into a pile of Louisville Sluggers...hard with no give.

As @Log mentioned, it looked better on television.  So in the 80s, the WWF made the ring and the cage both much worse for the workers in the name of TV friendliness.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Technico Support

[colonial 132]

Forget who reported it initially, but I recall reading that Sapp was in line for the spot that went to Monty Brown in WWECW but Sapp wanted too much money. 

[Ryan 5,082]

He'll gladly do it now.

[BEN! 1,938]

On 11/9/2019 at 10:22 PM, BloodyChamp said:

I thought it was 1997 SST vs Stars and Stripes. I didn’t look it up before posting or anything but I was sure that was it. 

Not Stars & Stripes.  It was the former WCW Patriots and The Samoan Savage.  The Patriot and Fatu were in the WWF at the time.

Quote

 

12.15.97

Curtis Thompson & Todd Champion defeat Sam Fatu & Samu

 

https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=4163

The SST in WCW at that time could've been cool depending on what kind of shape they were in.  Maybe put them with Jimmy Hart and turn The Faces Of Fear face.

[Brian Fowler 13,541]

Hell, The Patriot was in WWF by then.

[BloodyChamp 46]

I just remembered...they were going to do some kind of not-black-or-white gangster feud with Samu and Konan. WCW hadn’t wussed out entirely by 1997 but by then trying to fit a gangster feud into their TV friendly product would have been tough lol!

[MORELOCK 2,716]

2 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

I just remembered...they were going to do some kind of not-black-or-white gangster feud with Samu and Konan. WCW hadn’t wussed out entirely by 1997 but by then trying to fit a gangster feud into their TV friendly product would have been tough lol!

I imagine it would have just been sanitized a bit - they had Konnan and eventually the Filthy Animals/No Limit Soldiers, and I remember (perhaps incorrectly) the Public Enemy's finisher being called The Drive By for their whole run.

[BurningBeard 3,943]

On 11/15/2019 at 7:07 PM, BloodyChamp said:

I just remembered...they were going to do some kind of not-black-or-white gangster feud with Samu and Konan. WCW hadn’t wussed out entirely by 1997 but by then trying to fit a gangster feud into their TV friendly product would have been tough lol!

Why did WWF ditch the similar angle with Rikishi when he was doing his Make A Difference gimmick? 

[twiztor 785]

did Hogan take a legitimate loss after winning the belt in Jan '84 until WrestleMania 6?  the closesr i can come up with is where Andre wins the title from him, but that is a far cry from a clean win.

side note: did you know Randy Savage never once got a pinfall win over Hogan? that shit's insane to me.

[happjack 208]

30 minutes ago, twiztor said:

did Hogan take a legitimate loss after winning the belt in Jan '84 until WrestleMania 6?  the closesr i can come up with is where Andre wins the title from him, but that is a far cry from a clean win.

side note: did you know Randy Savage never once got a pinfall win over Hogan? that shit's insane to me.

Do count out's count? Inoki beat Hogan in Japan via count-out in 84 or 85 and The Genius with Mr. Perfect's help beat Hogan via count out on SNME.

[Ace 4,694]

The Apter mags would regularly put over that the last person to pin Hogan was Tony Atlas.

 

[sydneybrown 2,156]

Hogan took a ton of countout and DQ losses during his first reign.  That's how you'd get a three match series out of them.  For example, Savage beat Hogan by countout in MSG twice before Hogan finally pinned him in a lumberjack match.  Don Muraco was another one.  Kept getting countout wins which would lead to a cage match.

[Hamhock 394]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:29 PM, sydneybrown said:

Hogan took a ton of countout and DQ losses during his first reign.  That's how you'd get a three match series out of them.  For example, Savage beat Hogan by countout in MSG twice before Hogan finally pinned him in a lumberjack match.  Don Muraco was another one.  Kept getting countout wins which would lead to a cage match.

Likewise vs. Big John Studd at MSG, where a debuting Heenan as manager helps Studd win by countout, and the return match stip is that Hogan can lose the belt via countout (match at 43:39; Heenan goads Hogan into rematch at 2:25:38):

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by Hamhock

[thee Reverend Axl Future 1,123]

7 hours ago, Hamhock said:

Likewise vs. Big John Studd at MSG, where a debuting Heenan as manager helps Studd win by countout, and the return match stip is that Hogan can lose the belt via countout (match at 43:39; Heenan goads Hogan into rematch at 2:25:38):

 

Hey, Young RAF was there! My pal Arthur and I always stood for the Russian National Anthem and were scolded by various NYC cab drivers and newsboys for it. I dunno if I have the gumption to watch through this mishegas to see if we made hard cam, although we are visible in several other MSG tapings from that era. The work moves-wise is minimal but the work working-wise is deliciously old school. This is a very interesting time as they are clinging to tradition but discovering the new ways, casting off and trying on and adapting as they go with no template. So many crap workers, tho', so if you didn't grow up with it it can be a slog. On the other hand - MEATHEAD (a.k.a. Thee Fink)!

- time, the script is you and me, boys,

RAF

p.s. - youthful RAF and  his chum Vinnie C are also visible in the WM1 home release and Arthur appeared in the  WWF Victory magazine. Collect and trade with your friends.

[paintedbynumbers 375]

On 12/1/2019 at 2:47 PM, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

Hey, Young RAF was there! My pal Arthur and I always stood for the Russian National Anthem and were scolded by various NYC cab drivers and newsboys for it. I dunno if I have the gumption to watch through this mishegas to see if we made hard cam, although we are visible in several other MSG tapings from that era. The work moves-wise is minimal but the work working-wise is deliciously old school. This is a very interesting time as they are clinging to tradition but discovering the new ways, casting off and trying on and adapting as they go with no template. So many crap workers, tho', so if you didn't grow up with it it can be a slog. On the other hand - MEATHEAD (a.k.a. Thee Fink)!

- time, the script is you and me, boys,

RAF

p.s. - youthful RAF and  his chum Vinnie C are also visible in the WM1 home release and Arthur appeared in the  WWF Victory magazine. Collect and trade with your friends.

what is Arthur up to these days? Is he still a fan?

[sydneybrown 2,156]

Hell, does anyone know what Vladimir is up to these days?  Is HE still a fan?

[RolandTHTG 2,514]

If anyone was ever going to give it up for a lifetime of coke and disco...

[cwoy2j 3,444]

On 11/29/2019 at 3:29 PM, sydneybrown said:

Hogan took a ton of countout and DQ losses during his first reign.  That's how you'd get a three match series out of them.  For example, Savage beat Hogan by countout in MSG twice before Hogan finally pinned him in a lumberjack match.  Don Muraco was another one.  Kept getting countout wins which would lead to a cage match.

There's a match on The Network where George Steele beats Hogan by countout in Boston to set up a return.

[thee Reverend Axl Future 1,123]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:24 AM, paintedbynumbers said:

what is Arthur up to these days? Is he still a fan?

I lost touch with Arthur but he was a great guy and funny as heck. He brought his camera to the MSG show to fulfill his HS photography shop assignments. His mom was pals with one of the MSG families, so we had access to their ringside seat privleges. We saw a lot of great matches but saw much Tiger Chung Lee  vs, Mr. Fuji openers.

misty & water-colored,

RAF

[BloodyChamp 46]

On 11/19/2019 at 7:21 AM, BurningBeard said:

Why did WWF ditch the similar angle with Rikishi when he was doing his Make A Difference gimmick? 

Not sure I’m not the WWF historian I’m afraid

[PetrolCB 7,675]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:50 PM, sydneybrown said:

Hell, does anyone know what Vladimir is up to these days?  Is HE still a fan?

I remember seeing photos of him showing up at a fan fest. Whatever the hell was in or near NYC last. Looks exactly the same.

23 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Not sure I’m not the WWF historian I’m afraid

Dynamite drop in, Marty. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by PetrolCB