Niners Fan in CT Posted February 17 Posted February 17 On 2/12/2025 at 3:04 PM, SirSmUgly said: The John Cena spinner version of the U.S. Championship is great, actually, and the spinner WWE Championship is, too. Love 'em both. That's how you design a gaudy wrestling belt in a good way. I didn't hate them until they decided to keep the design (that did not spin) for years and years. I don't know if this is a "hot take" or not but I remember some discourse about the Bret/Flair title change in Canada not being a great match. I have to disagree as I just watched it again recently. WWE Vault put up the "Smack 'Em Whack 'Em" Coliseum Video so it's on there. I think the match is pretty darn good and the crowd is hot the whole way through.
zendragon Posted February 20 Posted February 20 Wasn't that the reason in never aired in the entirety on TV is that Vince wasn't satisfied with it?
Nice Guy Eddie Posted February 20 Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, zendragon said: Wasn't that the reason in never aired in the entirety on TV is that Vince wasn't satisfied with it? Vince not being satisfied, what a shocker! 2
Bustronaut Posted February 22 Posted February 22 On 1/17/2025 at 2:47 PM, Cliff Hanger said: And Shane Douglas's "Perfect Strangers" knockoff was at least A-tier. https://youtu.be/pCGRgPUP65s?si=ySwsPKwf6JdDJJUA Can a mod fix this link? I've waited years for this tee-up 3
TheVileOne Posted February 22 Posted February 22 I think you can take Tony Khan to task for the many blunders he's made with AEW. Ghosting Shane McMahon is not one of them. 1 1
Sublime Posted February 23 Posted February 23 One counts are fantastic and help build story into matches. They have been pushed out in favor of the “drama” or two counts and it’s silly. every time a boxer gets knocked down he doesn’t lay there til an 8 or 9 count (I don’t think so anyway I haven’t watched a boxing match since the 90s) why aren’t wrestlers getting out of pinning predicaments quicker anymore? 3
supremebve Posted February 23 Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Sublime said: One counts are fantastic and help build story into matches. They have been pushed out in favor of the “drama” or two counts and it’s silly. every time a boxer gets knocked down he doesn’t lay there til an 8 or 9 count (I don’t think so anyway I haven’t watched a boxing match since the 90s) why aren’t wrestlers getting out of pinning predicaments quicker anymore? I always liked the idea of kicking out as an energy expenditure, so making your opponent use that energy to kick out early and often is part of wearing down your opponent which will give you an advantage later in the match. 4
BobbyWhioux Posted February 23 Posted February 23 they could even put effort into putting it over as a machismo/hypercompetitive thing. Guys wanting to boast that "oh you almost got that guy with a 2.9 after that hold but I kicked out at 1 so don't bring that weak stuff to me" and so on. There's a bunch of ways to "keep score" and pro athletes are aware of just about all of them.
zendragon Posted February 23 Posted February 23 5 hours ago, supremebve said: I always liked the idea of kicking out as an energy expenditure, so making your opponent use that energy to kick out early and often is part of wearing down your opponent which will give you an advantage later in the match. I like this idea just wish announcer would put this idea over. I also like the idea of a one count as a reaction to a wrestler trying to get a flash pin early in a match 1
ka-to Posted February 23 Posted February 23 I would enjoy House of Torture if they did the exact same things but were disqualified in every match. 1
tbarrie Posted February 24 Posted February 24 16 hours ago, zendragon said: I like this idea just wish announcer would put this idea over. What promotions do you follow? The AEW announcers, at least, talk pretty frequently about how going for a pin is generally a good idea, because even if you don't get the three you still make your opponent expend energy kicking out.
zendragon Posted February 24 Posted February 24 7 hours ago, tbarrie said: What promotions do you follow? The AEW announcers, at least, talk pretty frequently about how going for a pin is generally a good idea, because even if you don't get the three you still make your opponent expend energy kicking out. I'm thinking about the quick repeated cover spot, to me a former amateur wrestler I know its tremendously exhausting to have someone's bodyweight on top of you. But I feel it would get over better if the announcers explained it. 1
Shartnado Posted February 24 Posted February 24 On 2/22/2025 at 4:07 AM, ka-to said: I like one counts, especially early in matches. Even if it will bite you in the ass later on in the match due to being somewhat more exhausted from kicking out faster, I would prefer if wrestlers started the matches by kicking out before one just to show "you are nowhere near of beating me yet!" and progress from there to the 2.9999 counts right before the actual end. And while I DO love the "fuck you!" kick out at one late in the match, it's usually the correct move to have the following pinfall attempt lead to a three count afterwards. 3
Curt McGirt Posted February 24 Posted February 24 See, they probably don't do it because it is exhausting along with people not understanding that. It's like what someone posted here not long ago where they asked a wrestler what really sucks in the ring and it's taking a basic bodyslam, because it hurts like hell and nobody cares. 2
Godfrey Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Moving this conversation from an AEW thread so I'm not clogging that up with my late reply: Kayfabe, is it necessary or even wanted in modern wrestling? To me yes, blurring the line between real and fake is what makes wrestling enjoyable. I don't see it as a con although I hear the arguments for that especially historically and from a labour perspective it's exploitive to demand a worker be working whenever they're in public. But if we treat it as a performance art then I think keeping kayfabe is part of the art of pro wrestling and maybe even most of it. This is also why certain in-ring styles don't appeal to me. Tbarrie says at no point do they need to believe Infinity War or Game of Thrones is real to enjoy it and I think this is where we come at it differently. I don't enjoy those movies/shows because no matter how good the stories are I find the fake worlds completely uninteresting after an hour, I watch sports because I like seeing real world action. I love pro wrestling when it rides that line (a fake sport in the real world) and the kind of kayfabe I'm talking about is a key ingredient of good pro wrestling storytelling. Again, I don't ever think the matches are real and I don't think that should be the goal, but believing that the wrestlers are really who they say they are and even hate who they say they hate helps with the immersion. When it works I think that's what makes wrestling special. Appreciate the perspectives so far, it's always good to hear where people are coming from.
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted February 24 Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Godfrey said: Moving this conversation from an AEW thread so I'm not clogging that up with my late reply: Kayfabe, is it necessary or even wanted in modern wrestling? To me yes, blurring the line between real and fake is what makes wrestling enjoyable. I don't see it as a con although I hear the arguments for that especially historically and from a labour perspective it's exploitive to demand a worker be working whenever they're in public. But if we treat it as a performance art then I think keeping kayfabe is part of the art of pro wrestling and maybe even most of it. This is also why certain in-ring styles don't appeal to me. Tbarrie says at no point do they need to believe Infinity War or Game of Thrones is real to enjoy it and I think this is where we come at it differently. I don't enjoy those movies/shows because no matter how good the stories are I find the fake worlds completely uninteresting after an hour, I watch sports because I like seeing real world action. I love pro wrestling when it rides that line (a fake sport in the real world) and the kind of kayfabe I'm talking about is a key ingredient of good pro wrestling storytelling. Again, I don't ever think the matches are real and I don't think that should be the goal, but believing that the wrestlers are really who they say they are and even hate who they say they hate helps with the immersion. When it works I think that's what makes wrestling special. Appreciate the perspectives so far, it's always good to hear where people are coming from. Kayfabe is great. Folks who lean into kayfabe sure seem like they’re having way more fun than the people who give heavy scrutiny to things. Why would we give so much time to something if we don’t enjoy it? (Unless you enjoy heavy scrutiny. In which case I guess I won’t kinkshame.)
Curt McGirt Posted February 24 Posted February 24 *Nathan Explosion voice* Heh, Heavy Scrutiny, good name for a tag team
southofheavy Posted February 24 Posted February 24 I absolutely LOVE that Toni Storm is Timeless all the time. I understand that staying in character all the time has gotta be exhausting (especially in the 80s), but dammit, I am pretty damn sick of knowing everyone's story. I don't need to know their hobbies or how they got into wrestling or their trials and tribulations outside of the ring. I especially don't want to hear them talk about their character. I'd rather them save that stuff for retirement anymore. Fuckin' Shawn Michaels and his goddamn boyhood dream.
twiztor Posted February 24 Posted February 24 i feel like a KAYFABE: YAY OR NAY could easily be its own topic. my biggest pet peeve about it is when you have a heel, but then an announcer (looking at you JR) brings up their family life, or a hardship they're going through in their life. Like, don't make me feel sympathy for this evil bastard. i have gotten pretty good about separating the performer from the character, but shit like that does too much about integrating them.
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted February 24 Posted February 24 3 minutes ago, twiztor said: i feel like a KAYFABE: YAY OR NAY could easily be its own topic. my biggest pet peeve about it is when you have a heel, but then an announcer (looking at you JR) brings up their family life, or a hardship they're going through in their life. Like, don't make me feel sympathy for this evil bastard. i have gotten pretty good about separating the performer from the character, but shit like that does too much about integrating them. I don't like it but can justify it by thinking that even BTK was a family man.
Technico Support Posted February 24 Posted February 24 To ask this question, you need to specify what you mean by “kayfabe.” If you mean “stay in character and act like it’s real, outside the context of the show,” then absolutely not. That’s stupid and needs to go. Nobody believes that and it just makes wrestling look bad. If you mean “keep characters consistent during the show and don’t expose that these are real people playing characters,” then yeah.
AxB Posted February 24 Posted February 24 1 hour ago, southofheavy said: Fuckin' Shawn Michaels and his goddamn boyhood dream. They gave Mick Foley a childhood dream of wrestling in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. I believe he was already 19 years old when Mania 1 happened.
tbarrie Posted February 24 Posted February 24 36 minutes ago, AxB said: They gave Mick Foley a childhood dream of wrestling in the Main Event of Wrestlemania. I believe he was already 19 years old when Mania 1 happened. Think how excited he must have been when Wrestlemania was created - one step closer to his boyhood dream coming true! 1 7
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