Your wrestling HOT TAKES

[odessasteps]

I don't think I know any of the stars that I saw Zellner mention during the show.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Lex Luger is one of the most underrated performers of all time.  We can talk about his in-ring work which I feel was mostly good,  you give him a decent opponent and he more than held his own as a legit power guy and I don't recall him ever stumbling around,  fucking up etc..   As a promo guy, not great but not "bad" either,  I'd say he was about average.  

But what matters most,  he was consistently over from 1987 through 1997.   A decade long run of being really over.  Go watch his WCW babyface runs whether as a U.S. title guy or later a true main eventer and he was insanely over with the live crowds.  In WWF?  Very over as a top guy until they cut his legs out.  Then back to WCW and his title win over Hulk Hogan is one of the loudest pops I remember of that era.  

Lex Luger fucking ruled. 

[Technico Support]

His WCW heel run in 89, cut short when he was pressed into babyface service due to Sting’s injury, was amazing.  
Few wrestlers’ legacies suffered more from the Meltzerification of wrestling discourse than Luger.

[Happ Hazzard]

I don't know how over you can say Luger was in the WWF. He was never as over as much as he was pushed, either as the Narcissist or as Mr Made in the USA.

If he'd just been the Total Package (and he had appeared on WWF TV under that gimmick, at WM8) as a heel at first, and then turned face on the USS Intrepid and stood up for America, but not gone overboard with the patriotic gimmick, he'd have done a lot better.

He was the first in a long line of Vince showing he had no idea how to push a top babyface in between Hogan leaving and Austin catching fire. (see also, Diesel and Shawn Michaels). 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I feel like the Lex Express was off to a good start.  He got a huge reaction slamming Yoko and then those reactions carried on for a minute.  I just think they cut his legs out and ruined him. 

[Curt McGirt]

On 1/26/2025 at 7:29 PM, Raziel said:

How the hell has one of those not popped up in Baltimore yet?

I want to be a bit of a dick here and say "Have you ever heard of that TV show The Wire?"  (All due respect either way)

Trick Williams is gonna be the big push black dude IMO.

On 1/27/2025 at 5:29 PM, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

It's also that what hit us when we were younger gets imprinted on our memories even more, not to mention the longer we live, the further out of touch we become with what mainstream is.

I worked with a team where the max age of the crew was one single guy in his 50s and myself, 41. Even our boss was 23, and we had 16 year olds (this WAS Walmart, after all). That quote is absolutely correct. (I'd get into their dumping of DEI policy while 3/4 or more of the employees being people of color or queer but that ain't allowed here.)

Edited January 29 by Curt McGirt

[Raziel]

13 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I want to be a bit of a dick here and say "Have you ever heard of that TV show The Wire?"  (All due respect either way)

 

Well when I say Baltimore, I really mean Aberdeen (like when people in Jersey say they're from Camden, it's really Maple Shade or Newark means Nutley)

[odessasteps]

"Fake baltimore" according to nxt 

[SirSmUgly]

20 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Lex Luger is one of the most underrated performers of all time.  We can talk about his in-ring work which I feel was mostly good,  you give him a decent opponent and he more than held his own as a legit power guy and I don't recall him ever stumbling around,  fucking up etc..   As a promo guy, not great but not "bad" either,  I'd say he was about average.  

But what matters most,  he was consistently over from 1987 through 1997.   A decade long run of being really over.  Go watch his WCW babyface runs whether as a U.S. title guy or later a true main eventer and he was insanely over with the live crowds.  In WWF?  Very over as a top guy until they cut his legs out.  Then back to WCW and his title win over Hulk Hogan is one of the loudest pops I remember of that era.  

Lex Luger fucking ruled. 

I'd say through 1998. Somehow, this dork fit into the nWo Wolfpac nicely, and they were insanely over the whole year. 

It can't be expressed enough how poor his booking was in the WWF. I love the Narcissist gimmick, but it's such a WWF gimmick and very limited. Meanwhile, the Lex Express run was so at odds with what gets Luger over. What gets Luger over as a babyface is racking dudes, especially big ones, and fighting back against the odds. Luger in the WWF as a babyface had to do all this "All-American" nonsense that undercut the core of what makes him good. 

I mentioned this earlier in this thread, maybe, but he's also got excellent comedic timing and facial expressions. As he breaks down physically in 1999 and into 2000, he's still puts in a creditable showing in promos and skits just by being a funny cowardly heel.

Anyway, Luger is massively underrated at this point and does, in fact, rule. Your post is only a hot take to the unwashed and uneducated masses, dammit! 

[Technico Support]

JR when Luger was a face: “he majored in Marketing and graduated with a 4.0!”

JR when Luger was a heel: “he was kicked off the U of Miami football team for disciplinary reasons!”

Even at like 13/14 years old, my friends and I saw through that dumb bullshit.

Edited January 29 by Technico Support

[No Point Stance]

The spear has been a shitty and ridiculously overused finisher by far too many workers for well over a decade now. As popularised-in-the-90s-but-spammed-to-death-ever-since moves go, it's right up there with the superkick.

[Curt McGirt]

Edge killed it. Nobody wants to see some skinny dude do it -- at least I don't. Now, it's just a really dangerous move, too. 

[Technico Support]

34 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Edge killed it. Nobody wants to see some skinny dude do it -- at least I don't. Now, it's just a really dangerous move, too. 

Same with Ricky Starks.  A running hug done by a skinny dude as a finish, in a business where a flip piledriver gets two, is nuts.  Wrestling is fucking weird, man.

[Curt McGirt]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

A running hug

Ahhahaha, that reminds me of Austin's Thesz Press getting nicknamed "the Dick to the Mouth" by the wrestlers 

[HumanChessgame]

18 hours ago, No Point Stance said:

The spear has been a shitty and ridiculously overused finisher by far too many workers for well over a decade now. As popularised-in-the-90s-but-spammed-to-death-ever-since moves go, it's right up there with the superkick.

Agreed, and I have this problem with strike finishers in general. For example, I just don't buy the Orange Punch as a finisher from OC. That's mainly due to my thought that in order for a wrestler to have a convincing "strike" finisher, they either need to be hoss-like in size or have some sort of martial arts background/their strikes being emphasized as especially vicious. I can buy Roman's superman punch because he's a big, powerful guy. I can buy Danielson or Malakai having kick/knee finishes because of how their striking ability is reinforced through the rest of their movesets. While I like OC as a wrestler, nothing in his size or regular offense makes me believe he could deliver a knockout punch to someone. See also small guys who use the spear as a big move (Edge, Starks).

[supremebve]

33 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

Agreed, and I have this problem with strike finishers in general. For example, I just don't buy the Orange Punch as a finisher from OC. That's mainly due to my thought that in order for a wrestler to have a convincing "strike" finisher, they either need to be hoss-like in size or have some sort of martial arts background/their strikes being emphasized as especially vicious. I can buy Roman's superman punch because he's a big, powerful guy. I can buy Danielson or Malakai having kick/knee finishes because of how their striking ability is reinforced through the rest of their movesets. While I like OC as a wrestler, nothing in his size or regular offense makes me believe he could deliver a knockout punch to someone. See also small guys who use the spear as a big move (Edge, Starks).

I smell what you're cooking, but I feel like Orange Cassidy is an exception to the rule.  Orange Cassidy's entire schtick is based on getting you to buy into a character who is wholly uncredible.  

[The Comedian]

Why on earth is Bron Breakker using the spear as his finish? Roman's already using it, Breakker has way cooler moves than that (and if he really needs a "do it to anybody" finish he's got the Recliner), and he nearly broke his neck hitting Sheamus head-first with it on SNME...

[stuntmanc]

20 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Edge killed it. Nobody wants to see some skinny dude do it -- at least I don't. Now, it's just a really dangerous move, too. 

I'll add that no one has thrown a spear as nasty/great as Rhino in ECW.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Ron Garvin vs. Ric Flair was one of the best in-ring feuds of the late 80s.  I get that Ronnie Garvin wasn't a "draw" and a lot of people love to shit on him being crowned the World Heavyweight Champion but I don't care about that.  I care about what they did in the ring.  I think even our guy Meltzer shit on this series of matches and he was dead wrong just like whoever else in that era.  

These two had tremendous chemistry.  The chop wars themselves would have made Gunther blush.  These were very hard hitting and exciting back and forth brawls with tons of haymakers,  lots of blood spilled and creative spots mixed in.  The selling from both men was also top tier.  

Their first match title match can be tracked down on Youtube in it's entirety, it took place in Detroit.  The rematch was at Starrcade '87 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

5 hours ago, stuntmanc said:

I'll add that no one has thrown a spear as nasty/great as Rhino in ECW.

To counter, Shuji Kondo's Lanzarse:

 

[odessasteps]

Bring back the NFL style spear Duggan and other used. 

[J.H.]

What works against Edge's spear is that he used to be on the gas and pretty big, but then he downcycled and shrunk and it looked less impressive as he was doing it to guys who were now roughly his own size. 

James

[supremebve]

1 hour ago, J.H. said:

What works against Edge's spear is that he used to be on the gas and pretty big, but then he downcycled and shrunk and it looked less impressive as he was doing it to guys who were now roughly his own size. 

James

There is not a day in Edge's career where his body said, this dude should be doing a spear.  Put it like this, there are plenty of NFL players who are of comparable size with Edge and all those dudes get hit, they don't do the hitting.  

[Curt McGirt]

I would be down for a good old football tackle again too. The Pounce is kind of in the same fashion only it looks wild and out of control. You are putting your hands and arms up, you aren't aiming your head directly at someone, they can possibly control the bump some, etc. 

[FourPostMassacre]

The problem with the spear is that the only way it looks good is to hit people with it while giving 0 fucks for your opponents safety like Goldberg was doing in his WCW days. 
 

In that sense it should just go away.