Your wrestling HOT TAKES

[Technico Support]

Latino wrestlers like the (Filipino) DJZ, who is in the LWO.  These dudes are racist as fuck.  

Edited January 25 by Technico Support

[just drew]

Hurt Business was on the 'Mania 40 card, so them being let go was a HHH call. 

[just drew]

41 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

I hear you on this and frankly I'm not convinced there isn't something odd going on with HHH too, especially with notably race sensitive comedians Shane Gillis and Tony Hinchcliffe showing up on TV last night. I think the WWE's counter would be that they highlight Samoan and Latino wrestlers in the main events regularly and they are building Black stars for the future so they're in the clear (not my stance but I think they would say that). I wonder if they just don't have That Guy right now. Letting the Hurt Business go was dumb, no question about it, but wasn't that a Vince decision? In terms of the current roster, I'd argue someone like Montez Ford could be elevated with a little effort, maybe Carmelo Hayes too if he can find another gear plus Trick Williams and Oba Femi are on the way, but honestly I'm open to hearing who you think is ready to take that spot right now

I would submit that:

1; there are lots of Samoans in the main event right now, but that has to do with their relation to one particular talent. If Roman Reigns weren't in WWE, would Samoans and other Pacific Islanders be featured as heavily as they are?

2; Most of the Latinos featured on WWE TV are in stories with other latinos. The LWO and LDF, for example. Dominik is the exception, but that's still not a very high success rate. WWE has a chance to correct this with Penta, but I'm not particularly optimistic. 

3; I could absolutely believe that there's something odd going on with HHH. Swerve Strickland has said multiple times on his podcast that he never once felt like HHH related to him or other black talent, and that he never had a single productive interaction with him. Strickland attributes this to HHH's complete unfamiliarity with urban and hip-hop culture (I promise, I feel as white typing that as I'm sure I would sound saying it). 

Montez Ford could be a main eventer 6 weeks from now. He's charismatic, handsome, freakishly athletic, and a good promo. I think he's one of those guys where you have to make a conscious effort NOT to make him a star. Xavier Woods has every tool, too, AND he's one of HHH's nxt "OG's." Big E should've been a much bigger deal even than he was, but given what happened, that's understandable. I haven't seen enough of Ashante Thee Adonis to have an informed opinion, but he and Cedric Alexander should be on the main roster somewhere.

Honestly, it's not just that black male talent aren't featured, it's who's being featured instead of them. Austin Theory, Karrion Kross, Johnny Gargano, and probably 3 dozen others are guys WWE could lose tomorrow and the show wouldn't suffer in quality at all. In fact, Theory's continued presence on WWE TV would be "exhibit A" of my class action lawsuit against TKO if I were Swerve, Bobby Lashley and Keith Lee. There are some absolute fucking bums on TV every week. But, as Chris Rock once said, "it's all right, 'cause it's all white."

[Johnny Sorrow]

52 minutes ago, just drew said:

Hurt Business was on the 'Mania 40 card, so them being let go was a HHH call. 

That wasn't Hurt Business. That was Lashley and the Street Profits vs. Final Testament.  Hurt Business was during the pandemic era and Vince ended them after 8 months to push Lashley alone with MVP as his manager.

[Godfrey]

41 minutes ago, just drew said:

Hurt Business was on the 'Mania 40 card, so them being let go was a HHH call. 

Do you mean "the Pride", Lashley and Street Profits? I did forget they were there because they weren't called the Hurt Business but fair enough, Lashley was let go after that. However, I think MVP and Shelton were gone by WM40

1 - Maybe, because of the Rock and the Anoa'i family regularly appearing for decades, without them I'm fairly sure there wouldn't be that many Pacific Islanders in there today so I take your point

2 - There's also Damien Priest, world champ for half of 2024

3 - HHH being ignorant of street culture and not cool to Swerve doesn't make him racist though. Swerve is a particular talent, he thrives in a place like AEW and not in a heavily structured company like the WWE

I agree there is too many generic white dudes on the roster but I think that's because they are underdeveloped too. It could be more a case of not building anyone properly for a long time under Vince and needing to make adjustments now. A company like WWE doesn't turn on a dime

[just drew]

You're right about HHH. As I said in another thread, I'm a big believer in context clues, and I think there are enough context clues to at least infer that HHH doesn't see any added value in going out of his way to feature black and latin talent. Idk if he's racist or not, but given the political allegiances of the family he married into, it sure wouldn't shock me. 

I legit forgot the Pride and the Hurt Business were two different things. That's my bad.

[Technico Support]

Putting all wrestlers of a certain race into one stable because if you’re non-white, that’s your gimmick, is racist.  Forever in wrestling, white guys have a million gimmicks while non-whites’ race has been gimmick enough.  That’s fucked.

Putting a non-Latino in a Latino stable because “fuck it, he’s brown enough, who cares?” is horrible.

TK is not above reproach either, with the Hurt Syndicate only scouting black wrestlers in AEW so far.   This shit is fucked up.

[Johnny Sorrow]

HHH didn't renew Lashley's contract, and that may be more of a case of Lashley being a Vince guy. He's on record praising him relatively with the whole, "Vince fed a lot of people." bullshit.

Lashley also recently said that he had an idea he wanted to do. He wanted to feud with Gunther and have it be racially based with Gunther basically being Col. DeBeers.

[just drew]

50 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Putting all wrestlers of a certain race into one stable because if you’re non-white, that’s your gimmick, is racist.  Forever in wrestling, white guys have a million gimmicks while non-whites’ race has been gimmick enough.  That’s fucked.

Putting a non-Latino in a Latino stable because “fuck it, he’s brown enough, who cares?” is horrible.

TK is not above reproach either, with the Hurt Syndicate only scouting black wrestlers in AEW so far.   This shit is fucked up.

MVP and Lashley have addressed this in the past. Lashley spoke about his kids seeing people who looked like them in business suits, going about their profession in a manner they can be proud of, instead off working a stereotypical gimmick. I'm not saying I think it's right or wrong, I just would be hesitant to put much blame on TK for that particular decision. I'd bet any amount of $ that the Syndicate Guys picked those targets themselves.

[username]

I side eyed HHH a bit recently for how few black acts were pushed for a bit earlier this year, but I do think it is a bit cyclical. FWIW AEW has had stretches that were worse (go look at the first couple years of TV, very few black wrestlers in main events and maybe a single victory in one), I think it is more about the people in power in both places not really caring about it rather than actively not liking them. That's still a legit problem that I support pointing out whenever it crops up, but I don't think it is quite the same as racist.

Bigger picture though... you want AEW (or any wrestling group) to go wade into culture war territory you better be ready for all discussions around said company to be unspeakably ugly for the foreseeable future. In some cases it is worth making the stand, but just to try and kick dirt on a competitor it is probably not worth it.

[stuntmanc]

A hot take to add to this discussion, if somehow Oba Femi is mishandled on the main roster, I think you definitely have a "Where there is smoke, there's fire" moment for HHH, simply because I fully believe Femi is a total package, unbelievably can't miss wrestler.  He has it all and the sky is the limit for him.

[FourPostMassacre]

11 hours ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

HHH didn't renew Lashley's contract, and that may be more of a case of Lashley being a Vince guy. He's on record praising him relatively with the whole, "Vince fed a lot of people." bullshit.

Lashley also recently said that he had an idea he wanted to do. He wanted to feud with Gunther and have it be racially based with Gunther basically being Col. DeBeers.

I heard that Lashley interview and it’s sad how him, and I’ve seen others have this mentality of “Vince gave me everything without him I would be nothing” but that’s wrestling biz brainwashing for ya. 

All this Hurt Business talk I haven’t seen anyone mention how MVP said Vince wanted to turn it in to Nation of Domination 2.0 to the point he had Farooq and Mark Henry ready to join the group and rename it. 

[supremebve]

10 hours ago, username said:

Bigger picture though... you want AEW (or any wrestling group) to go wade into culture war territory you better be ready for all discussions around said company to be unspeakably ugly for the foreseeable future. In some cases it is worth making the stand, but just to try and kick dirt on a competitor it is probably not worth it.

I mean, have you seen online discussions of AEW?  I don't think adding a bunch of racists into anything will make it better, but it's already full of some of the worst types of bad-faith actors.  

[stuntmanc]

45 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I mean, have you seen online discussions of AEW?  I don't think adding a bunch of racists into anything will make it better, but it's already full of some of the worst types of bad-faith actors.  

The "AEW is the worst" hardcore contingent are some of the most unhinged, shitty wrestling "fans" ive ever had the displeasure of interacting with. 

[The Natural]

47 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I mean, have you seen online discussions of AEW?  I don't think adding a bunch of racists into anything will make it better, but it's already full of some of the worst types of bad-faith actors.  

 

1 minute ago, stuntmanc said:

The "AEW is the worst" hardcore contingent are some of the most unhinged, shitty wrestling "fans" ive ever had the displeasure of interacting with. 

Another reason why I'm grateful for the community we have here.

[Ramo2653]

Yeah, I have thoughts about booking and presentation of black wrestlers in both big companies and their subsidiaries (and FWIW I'm black) but it's a way deeper subject than a message board.

[TheVileOne]

Omos relinquishing his GHC tag title was absolute idiocy. Dude finally gets some momentum in his career again and flushes it down the toilet. What's he going to do? Appear for a one-off Royal Rumble spot and return to oblivion? WWE did nothing with him for almost a year. The Netflix Era is not going to do anything with Omos.  

Frankly, WWE should be sending more wrestlers to Japan who they aren't using right now if they aren't going to cut them. IE Giovanni Vinci.

Edited January 26 by TheVileOne

[odessasteps]

Maybe the tna deal will mean more work for the younger wredtlers.

[just drew]

Shit, I don't much care if HHH is actually bigoted or not. It doesn't matter. My point is that WWE has gotten to play the good guys for the last year or so. Their post-show scrums are like little love-fests where everyone asks softball questions and celebrates how great and unproblematic everything is now that Vince is gone. AEW will never "catch" WWE from the perspective of pure market share or gross revenue, but they could absolutely become the "fan friendly" brand again. Make WWE play defense a bit. Take them to task on ticket prices and just how expensive it is to take your family to a WWE show. Pimp how much "in ring action" there is in an AEW show as opposed to a WWE show. Of course, AEW probably needs to make sure their own ticket prices are reasonable before picking that hill to die on. Yeah. Perception is reality. AEW could do a lot of damage to how WWE is perceived without even ever mentioning them directly.

 

[odessasteps]

Don't think TK wants to throw stones about ticket prices given the glass house that Is Craven Cottage, where fans seemingly protest their costs every home match. 

[Raziel]

I'm also not sure you want to be throwing the race card around when your World Champ and buddies' gimmicks are based off a movie about White Supremacists, in our current political climate.

[TheVileOne]

It's pretty simple. The guy to unseat Jon Moxley is Powerhouse Hobbs. It ain't Darby Allin. Darby Allin is not him. 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Raziel said:

I'm also not sure you want to be throwing the race card around when your World Champ and buddies' gimmicks are based off a movie about White Supremacists, in our current political climate.

I’ve only ever heard that comparison made here, and then only by one poster.  That’s hardly consensus.  Not putting anybody down or saying it’s a wrong opinion, just saying you might be overstating things.

[Raziel]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

I’ve only ever heard that comparison made here, and then only by one poster.  That’s hardly consensus.  Not putting anybody down or saying it’s a wrong opinion, just saying you might be overstating things.

https://cultaholic.com/posts/jon-moxley-s-new-aew-gimmick-inspired-by-russell-crowe-in-cult-classic-movie

 

Alverez flat out said it.  It's not just here.

 

EDIT: I'm not saying there's not a way to adapt the "Fall from grace after adopting shit ideology" storyline, but I sure as fuck don't trust anyone in Pro Wrestling to do it, especially lifting shit from a movie like Romper Stomper wholesale.

Edited January 27 by Raziel

[just drew]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Don't think TK wants to throw stones about ticket prices given the glass house that Is Craven Cottage, where fans seemingly protest their costs every home match. 

How many American wrestling fans do you think even know what a Craven Cottage is? Sounds like a Horror movie themed B&B...