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Posted (edited)

Because the Wiz only did TV every 3 (or so) weeks plus MSG, he continued as Abdullah Farouk at the same time. I think that stopped when Sheik money went down and NY money went up.

I remember seeing him on channel 41 with The Sheik at the Olympic and on channel 47 from Pennsylvania as the Wizard in the same week in the 70's.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by ka-to
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Posted
On 12/17/2024 at 6:32 AM, twiztor said:

with all this talk about managers, does anyone have recommendations for performances by the Grand Wizard? he's always mentioned by old timers, but what little i've seen has been fairly standard stuff. Just wondering if i've missed something.

 

He used to do a bit where he would kneel in front Ken Patera to help him take his pants off and Ken would act against at the cat calling that ensued like "what just a man helping another man take his trousers off"

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Posted
On 12/16/2024 at 8:33 PM, supremebve said:

No, I agree.  I'm going to not only agree, but I'm going to tell you the human tipping point that started the give you everything you want without making you wait.  It's Kurt Angle.  Before Kurt Angle almost everyone built up to the biggest spots, but Kurt gave you everything you wanted exactly when you wanted and it worked because he was the only one doing that.  Now, everyone's doing that and it doesn't seem like this elite amateur wrestling machine will take advantage of every mistake and hit you with a crazy suplex.  Now, everybody is now an elite wrestling machine who might hit you with a crazy suplex and that kind of sucks.

Maybe a hot take only to the DVDVR/PWO crowd, but I've come back around on Angle and consider him a great worker.

Angle's in-ring work signals basically that he's wrestling's Bo Jackson, such an absurd athlete who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to his opponent. 

On that note, I find it wholly appropriate that he works like he's virtual Bo in Tecmo Super Bowl, doing the wrestling equivalent of running the length of the field three times before scoring. It's fun to marvel at this legit Olympic gold medalist going HAM in the ring at every opportunity.

Through no fault of his own, he influenced a bunch of guys who are decidedly not Bo Jackson- or Kurt Angle-like to mimic him without understanding what made him special.

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Posted

I remember a heated discussion on the ancient board about Kurt Angle having the heat he had with some people, particularly Eddie, because he didn’t like taking to long to sell or even his opponent doing it. I never saw it myself but for people to have talked about it since then I guess it happened. There are also people who hate a certain match of his from RAW that I thought was killer, but I do understand the complaints. I won’t even say the match. I’ve probably already said too much lol but I loved watching Kurt Angle and this is coming from somebody who hated the WWF and Kurt was strictly WWF. There was no excuse for me to be a closet fan like I was of so many of the other good workers over there. There was no stopping it though he was great.

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Posted (edited)

I feel like Angle was really great but also somehow possibly still overrated a little, especially by the WON HOF type old heads who were consciously or unconsciously desperate to embrace a legit dude to make their love of fake fighting feel less silly.  Like they could be a little less self-conscious and ashamed because a gold medalist was partaking in this childishness, in their minds.  “Thank god Kurt’s here so I can feel okay about liking this!”  The fact that he made it to a pro wrestling HOF before having a HOF-worthy career in pro wrestling speaks to a definite desperation among voters to embrace a “real wrestler.”

Edited by Technico Support
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Posted
45 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I feel like Angle was really great but also somehow possibly still overrated a little, especially by the WON HOF type old heads who were consciously or unconsciously desperate to embrace a legit dude to make their love of fake fighting feel less silly.  Like they could be a little less self-conscious and ashamed because a gold medalist was partaking in this childishness, in their minds.  “Thank god Kurt’s here so I can feel okay about liking this!”  The fact that he made it to a pro wrestling HOF before having a HOF-worthy career in pro wrestling speaks to a definite desperation among voters to embrace a “real wrestler.”

I value wrestlers who are immersive and Angle’s intensity is all time great as half the equation. The other half is selling to create resonance though and I just refuse to go back to confirm my priors one way or the other. 

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Posted
12 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Maybe a hot take only to the DVDVR/PWO crowd, but I've come back around on Angle and consider him a great worker.

Angle's in-ring work signals basically that he's wrestling's Bo Jackson, such an absurd athlete who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to his opponent. 

On that note, I find it wholly appropriate that he works like he's virtual Bo in Tecmo Super Bowl, doing the wrestling equivalent of running the length of the field three times before scoring. It's fun to marvel at this legit Olympic gold medalist going HAM in the ring at every opportunity.

Through no fault of his own, he influenced a bunch of guys who are decidedly not Bo Jackson- or Kurt Angle-like to mimic him without understanding what made him special.

I like your analogy, although I think I'd liken Angle's work more to Bo Jackson running up the wall to make a catch. Only Bo could pull that off so seamlessly, and if anyone else tried they'd fall flat on their face. It's why Angle's spots work for him but anyone else without his credentials fails.

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Posted

Watching 86 Memphis and during a match with the Mod Squad, I can't stop thinking the manager JD Costello looks like a living cartoon character but I can't put my finger on which one until it hits me... JD Costello is Judge Doom from Roger Rabbit!

James

  • Haha 1
Posted
On 12/24/2024 at 6:56 AM, SirSmUgly said:

Maybe a hot take only to the DVDVR/PWO crowd, but I've come back around on Angle and consider him a great worker.

Angle's in-ring work signals basically that he's wrestling's Bo Jackson, such an absurd athlete who can do whatever he wants whenever he wants to his opponent. 

On that note, I find it wholly appropriate that he works like he's virtual Bo in Tecmo Super Bowl, doing the wrestling equivalent of running the length of the field three times before scoring. It's fun to marvel at this legit Olympic gold medalist going HAM in the ring at every opportunity.

Through no fault of his own, he influenced a bunch of guys who are decidedly not Bo Jackson- or Kurt Angle-like to mimic him without understanding what made him special.

I never had a problem with Angle's selling or lack thereof because he structured it as sudden bursts of adrenaline. Like, didn't just stop selling all of a sudden, he exploded into action in a wild frenzy, then lost it and went back to the sell...

  • Like 2
Posted

Dork Angle is the best version of Kurt Angle.

The best Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn WWE match is the one from NXT TakeOver: Rival 2015. I prefer it to the more highly regarded one at WWE Battleground 2016.

Posted

Apologies if this has been discussed already and I suppose it's more of a "pet peeve" than a "hot take" but it really bothers me that so many wrestlers don't struggle in pinning predicaments, especially ones that end matches. Like a roll-up or a jackknife pin aren't knockout moves, a wrestler should at least be struggling against the pin but so many wrestlers just do nothing in the process of getting pinned. The struggling against the pin not only makes it look more realistic, it also just makes things seem more exciting because it allows for the possibility of thinking that a kickout might occur. I'm not even sure when I started noticing this but now that the idea popped in my head, I can't not see it when it happens.  

  • Like 7
Posted

I think that's one of the things they try to teach in NXT at least from the perspective of the wrestler making the pinfall attempt create some motion like they're really trying to hold their opponent down for the 3 count. Doesn't always happen or come off great, but I do notice it. But yeah, I know what you're talking about and it should happen more.

  • Like 4
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, blitzkrieg said:

it really bothers me that so many wrestlers don't struggle in pinning predicaments, especially ones that end matches

Totally agree - same thing when they don’t struggle when hoisted up/cinched for certain finishers. Rollins is someone who does a nice job of that, either kicking his legs or flailing his arms in a “oh no oh shit oh no” sort of way.

I always liked how Iron Sheik tried to fight out during the entire pinfall when he dropped the belt to Hogan (who had a full cradle hold on him, which I don’t recall seeing him do ever again after the leg drop).

SyVZvc.gif

Edited by Hamhock
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Posted
3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Related: the person getting pinned so obviously watching the ref count in order to kick out at two and change just kills me.

I can actually buy this if anyone ever called it out and said "they're keeping an eye on the ref's count so they can rest a quick second because they were confident in kicking out", but that might be a bit too business-expose-y.

Speaking of! How much has high definition recording and larger TVs damaged a lot of aspects of the business? From being able to see exactly where someone's eyes are looking, to seeing how cheaply made a lot of gear used to be made on old footage upscaled (a lot of folks went wild with glitter and glue back in the day). If someone's spray tan was off, by golly we just figured our TV's color was on the blink.

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Posted

That and improvements in audio, we did not hear as many called spots like we do now because we got 5-7 audio channels pumping through to us compared to one speaker on a tube TV.

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Posted
16 hours ago, Hamhock said:

I always liked how Iron Sheik tried to fight out during the entire pinfall when he dropped the belt to Hogan (who had a full cradle hold on him, which I don’t recall seeing him do ever again after the leg drop).

SyVZvc.gif

I love that because if you didn't know the result you could believe that Shiek might actually kick out.

15 hours ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

I can actually buy this if anyone ever called it out and said "they're keeping an eye on the ref's count so they can rest a quick second because they were confident in kicking out", but that might be a bit too business-expose-y.

It would be kinda the reverse of "constantly pinning someone to make them kick out and use up energy" but like that you'd probably need the announcers to sell the idea to the viewer. I could see a Jesse Ventura-type countering the PBP announcer saying it was a close pinfall by selling the idea that the heel could have kicked out any time he wanted and was just taking a second to breathe.

  • Like 4
Posted

Guess I'll put this here instead of the New Japan thread, but after watching Umino vs. ZSJ...

New Japan has the worst dojo system of any major company in Japan. Who have they produced since Naito that is consistently enjoyable? Kitamura is the only one I can think of that had potential and great instincts from the start. Okada was a Toryumon guy. Hiromu Takahashi is the only one I can think of, but I don't think he's any better than most of the elite of Japanese indie Jr. heavyweights. I just learned through google Naito technically wasn't even a New Japan dojo guy, but Animal Hamiguchi's dojo like a lot of Big Japan guys. Since Naito, even a shoestring budget indie like Big Japan produced Okabayashi, Yuya Aoki, and Takuya Nomura, who I think are all better than pretty much any New Japan graduate. DDT produced guys like Endo, Ueno, Higuchi, Takeshita, etc. So many of the guys they depend on to carry the cards like Ishii, Shingo, Ibushi, etc. were outsourced. I see zero talk of the foreigners they trained. No one cares about Clark Connors from what I see. Guys like Jay White, Finlay, Chase Owens that take on dojo roles all come out bland as hell. I guess it's kinda like the US, where the indie guys who make it to the big leagues are way better wrestlers than the ones who were brought up exclusively in the big league. The real striking thing about their students is just the overall lack of fire, there are no elements of urgency, violence, and drama in their matches.

  • Like 1
Posted

Hot take: Time for New Japan to send Gedo out to pasture and find a new lead booker who knows what he's doing and can figure out how to build actual stars. There is no excuse for the abysmal attendance figures for Wrestle Kingdom and Wrestle Dynasty.

Also, New Japan's handling of its women's division is abysmal. They need to hire some joshi people or something to figure how how that has to work moving forward.

Strong as a brand is non-existent. Drop the stupid Strong titles. They are stupid and meaningless.

  • Like 3
Posted

The excuse for poor attendance is that AEW took most of the stars.

They don't have a women's division. They just have a belt. I would like it better if they only had the same 1 or 2 women on every New Japan show that they brought in an outsider to fight on each show. My hot take is that a women's division is not needed in any men's promotion. Women's "division" is just more of everybody copying what WWE has.

Posted
4 minutes ago, ka-to said:

The excuse for poor attendance is that AEW took most of the stars.

They don't have a women's division. They just have a belt. I would like it better if they only had the same 1 or 2 women on every New Japan show that they brought in an outsider to fight on each show. My hot take is that a women's division is not needed in any men's promotion. Women's "division" is just more of everybody copying what WWE has.

A year after AEW was announced they did even bigger numbers at the Tokyo Dome on back-to-back nights. They did bigger numbers last year.

If they don't have a women's division, then there's no point in having a belt. Bad creative.

Posted
19 hours ago, ka-to said:

My hot take is that a women's division is not needed in any men's promotion. Women's "division" is just more of everybody copying what WWE has.

Okay, but I'd argue that the major wrestling promotion don't want to be "men's promotions". They just want to be wrestling promotions.

But certainly, if being single-gender is part of your promotion's gimmick, then no, you don't need two divisions.

Posted (edited)

"Men's Wrestling Just for Manly Men" would certainly attract a demo.....

Edited by twiztor
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Posted
24 minutes ago, twiztor said:

"Men's Wrestling Just for Manly Men" would certainly attract a demo.....

No, it won't, EC3 already tried it.

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