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Raw Is JUSTICE FOR THE REVIVAL - 2/11/2019

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6 minutes ago, just drew said:

It doesn’t really matter grand scheme, but neither of those guys is close to 5’10. If they’re 5’10 I’m 6’5. Spoiler: I’m not 6’5. 

 

I just don’t jive with the notion that because two guys say they’re a great tag team, that it makes them a great tag team. They had great matches in nXt when they could practice them. Like everyone else. They’re the Good Brothers except they aren’t tall enough to ride the Batman coaster. And not the good Bullet Club Good Brothers. The “times new Roman” good brothers we currently see.

 

becky will be fine in terms of her overocity. I am anxious to see how WWE Schrutes this up, though....

 

 

This is such a tired talking point.

More over, I guess all the house shows everyone on the roster runs aren't any sort of rehearsal at all then.

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7 minutes ago, just drew said:

I just don’t jive with the notion that because two guys say they’re a great tag team, that it makes them a great tag team. They had great matches in nXt when they could practice them. Like everyone else.

It's good that you don't have to jive with that notion, then, and can accept them as a great tag team because they've had great matches. Like last night. Which, yes they've been working the house show circuit together, but that's a silly criticism to begin with (if it's good, who cares why?) and one that could have been leveled against Arn and Tully also. Wrestlers working the loop and eventually putting it all together for a bigger show is not exactly a new thing.

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Seeing Ronda react to the boos makes me think of how well Roman and Cena handled it. Roman's "this is my yard now" after however many minutes of booing and every time Cena would joke with the crowd about turning heel were good ways of showing "this shit ain't going to bother me."

Maybe it should have bothered them? 

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11 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

What a fucking match. No wonder they were going long every night on the house shows. I should've gone to the damn show. Although then I couldn't have fast forwarded Seth taking.

How many segments did that Bàlor/Drew Mac and six man thing take? Four or five. That's a lot, especially with how many people aren't getting used in this roster.

So... Dean's a face again? Okay, well, that angle worked well. 

Booking Bayley and Sasha to enter the chamber first is great on paper, they're the best team in it. But if Sasha still isn't fully cleared a week before the show, it seems risky. That triple threat killed the crowd when it was Samoans* vs Riot Squad.

Becky is so fucking good. And this is such a bad decision. There is no reason to put Charlotte in this. I know Becky is still going to be in it, obviously, but it's fucking dumb and killing the hottest thing in the company in the last five years.

*So Tamina is Samoan suddenly?

Samoan, Tongan, Fijian...it's all the same to the white people running the company.

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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Why do I get the sense that you see any fandom you disapprove of as invalid?

Yet you’re the one that takes every opportunity to voice your displeasure with the Becky push every chance you get. Projecting much?

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24 minutes ago, Casey said:

Yet you’re the one that takes every opportunity to voice your displeasure with the Becky push every chance you get. Projecting much?

Nice footwork, Astaire. "I'm rubber and your glue" really is the height of wit. 

I draw a distinction between taking issue taking with the booking and implying someone's less worthy of expressing their fandom because their favourites are the "chosen ones." 

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"They're too short!!!"
"Actually pretty similar to Tully/Arn height-wise."
"Well that doesn't matter now that I think about it! They just SAY they're good at tag team wrestling!!!!"
"Actually there are several examples of them being good at tag team wrestling."
"They had practice!!!!"
"Actually everyone in NXT did and that doesn't explain the great match they just had on RAW."
"They're too short!!!"

Y'all are too much sometimes.
 

2 hours ago, Godfrey said:

Whether it’s Becky/Ronda or a triple threat, they’re currently promoting the main event of Wrestlemania by saying it’s NOT happening, which is, yknow, pretty backwards.

You're not wrong, but they've done it plenty of times before. Post-Rumble 1999 the kayfabe slated main event for Mania would have been Heel Rock vs. Vince.

 

Also Meltzer said "Ronda is flustered." All of this talk that she's so flustered that she'd try to change the booking of the main event of WrestleMania has been spun completely out of thin air. It doesn't even really mean she's unwilling to play heel. It just means they're booking her as a face and the crowd not responding that way got her flustered. That's all.

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I think people taking shots at Ronda for being upset about being booed shows a lack of empathy and understanding of what she actually endured. When she debuted in UFC she was the target of some of the most sick and vile abuse imaginable. And I don't care what you think about her as a person, going through something like that clearly affected her. Also I think the fans are complete tools for turning on her because she genuinely loves pro wrestling and because she wants to step away they turned on her.

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42 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Samoan, Tongan, Fijian...it's all the same to the white people running the company.

Apparently Tamina is Fijian and Samoan.

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1 hour ago, Beech27 said:

It's good that you don't have to jive with that notion, then, and can accept them as a great tag team because they've had great matches. Like last night. Which, yes they've been working the house show circuit together, but that's a silly criticism to begin with (if it's good, who cares why?) and one that could have been leveled against Arn and Tully also. Wrestlers working the loop and eventually putting it all together for a bigger show is not exactly a new thing.

A question would be: how much variety is there these days on house shows? Anecdotally, you hear vets talk about how they tried to vary up things in matches, often to keep themselves entertained (like Windham and Eaton working whole sequences on their knees). It seems like we have heard current matches are often/sometimes the same matches move for move on the circuit 

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13 minutes ago, sabremike said:

I think people taking shots at Ronda for being upset about being booed shows a lack of empathy and understanding of what she actually endured. When she debuted in UFC she was the target of some of the most sick and vile abuse imaginable. And I don't care what you think about her as a person, going through something like that clearly affected her. Also I think the fans are complete tools for turning on her because she genuinely loves pro wrestling and because she wants to step away they turned on her.

The fans aren't booing Ronda because she's leaving. They're booing her because she's been positioned against their pet favorites for the past three months.

I don't know what you're referring to because I don't follow UFC and I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to say she deserved it soon enough, but I do have to scratch my head at the idea that anyone who genuinely loves pro wrestling shouldn't be booed. Huh? Do all current heels not love pro wrestling or do we need to start cheering them?

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12 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

A question would be: how much variety is there these days on house shows? Anecdotally, you hear vets talk about how they tried to vary up things in matches, often to keep themselves entertained (like Windham and Eaton working whole sequences on their knees). It seems like we have heard current matches are often/sometimes the same matches move for move on the circuit 

Fair question, and I don't know for sure. There is a poster on this board who just saw Revival/Glorious go 30 at a house show, recorded it, and posted it. So that's one potential data point.

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All this talk about Ronda being flustered might be true BUT it has nothing to do with why Charlotte is around the title match and appears to be heading for a triple threat.  Vince and creative had this idea a year ago that Ronda vs. Charlotte is the match.  That was the match.  Becky got red hot and it became clear that the fans preferred a Becky vs. Ronda program. Vince and creative spent a lot of time talking about "We're going to give the FANS what they want!" because they became concerned over viewership.  Some say maybe they became concerned of AEW as well. But more I think it's the loss in viewers and the FOX deal on the horizon. 

They think putting Becky in the title picture is giving the fans what they want but dammit..  Charlotte is what you SHOULD want and dammit this is the compromise. Stupid. 

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Gravy

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16 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The fans aren't booing Ronda because she's leaving. They're booing her because she's been positioned against their pet favorites for the past three months.

I don't know what you're referring to because I don't follow UFC and I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to say she deserved it soon enough, but I do have to scratch my head at the idea that anyone who genuinely loves pro wrestling shouldn't be booed. Huh? Do all current heels not love pro wrestling or do we need to start cheering them?

Honestly you are better off not knowing because it would lower your opinion of humanity by at least 10,000%.

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Some of the other evidence for Ronda disliking the Boos was it wasn't short after the Becky Ronda promo where she fumbled the lines that the reports of her wanting to take time of to have a baby/go part time came out.

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22 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Gravy

This brings me much joy. 

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2 hours ago, Beech27 said:

It's good that you don't have to jive with that notion, then, and can accept them as a great tag team because they've had great matches. Like last night. Which, yes they've been working the house show circuit together, but that's a silly criticism to begin with (if it's good, who cares why?) and one that could have been leveled against Arn and Tully also. Wrestlers working the loop and eventually putting it all together for a bigger show is not exactly a new thing.

I don't accept them as a great team. Because I don't think they are. I will concede that some of that is a "me" problem. I am predisposed to liking something less the more people tell me I should like it. The Revival is fine. I understand why people think their matches are objectively good. That's not what grabs my attention. There are probably a hundred guys on the roster who can "have good matches." Neither guy is capable of drawing me into a story they're trying to tell with their promos or physical charisma. The good news is the WWE won't be in any hurry to split the team up, because neither guy is a viable singles star.

 

Yeah, I'm probably too hard on them. I just have to roll my eyes and cringe when wrestling twitter talks about people like the Revival and what they "deserve." I'm as "fuck this company" as the next guy, but to act like the Revival are the poster boys for the lack of competence on WWE's part when it comes to what they have on their roster is laughable. I will also admit to not having the sentimental attachment to old-school tag team wrestling that a lot of people have. Like, I think the Midnight Express is the greatest tag team of all time, but my favorite tag team of all time is The New Age Outlaws, because they could talk and they did interesting things with compelling opponents. I get that the Revival also has to operate under the constraints of current WWE and their supposed "no stars" mentality, but Otis from Heavy Machinery has done more in the month he's been up to engage my attention than the Revival has since they came up. Maybe my tastes are in the minority. After all, I did once commission a t shirt that reads "workrate is for virgins." But I cannot wrap my head around the idea that all it takes to be a "great" tag team is competent work and bragging on twitter about how great you are. I dare say that in any other era of WWE, Revival would be JTTS level at best, and a lot of their "greatness" is propped up by the lack of emphasis on tags in current WWE. 

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Honestly, the only real issue I take with the RAW Tag Titles match was the fact that they didn't really show any struggle with the near falls. Even early on when Gable does the German to Dawson, he just lays there until the ref gets to two. There were a couple of times that they made that work, like the blockbuster/German spot and the near fall where Roode pushes Dash into Dawson to break it up. But other than tha, they cut a good pace, they fit in the right amount of work to fall within the constraints of the TV time, and neither of them did anything stupid.

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Are we discounting the idea that they don't see Ronda/Becky as a one on one next year or at Summerslam?

Plenty left on the table to get there.

Becky beats Charlotte at Mania

Becky beats Rousey in the traditional three way rematch at next PPV.

Rousey and Flair have their program. Becky has Steph, Nia, Riott Squad, Alexa as foils in the interim. That takes you to Summerslam at least.

From there you've still got Becky avenging her loss to Asuka, the inevitable Horsewomen vs Horsewomen stuff too.

Do they see more money in Ronda avenging her loss, winning the Rumble to take on year long reigning champion Becky?

Does anyone remember amongst Bryan winning two matches and closing the show as champion it was at the expense of Batista and Randy Orton?

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Again, and I know I keep saying this: Becky needs to beat Ronda at WrestleMania with absolutely nothing controversial or fluke like, because they need the largest possible audience see the crowning moment of their current biggest star. They get more eyeballs on the first Sunday in April than they will in August. Stars are made in one on one matches.

Edit: and I hate the "fans are mad, it's working" argument; fans aren't mad at Charlotte and want to see her get beat, they are mad at the company and have less interest in the match.

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10 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

Are we discounting the idea that they don't see Ronda/Becky as a one on one next year or at Summerslam?

Plenty left on the table to get there.

Becky beats Charlotte at Mania

Becky beats Rousey in the traditional three way rematch at next PPV.

Rousey and Flair have their program. Becky has Steph, Nia, Riott Squad, Alexa as foils in the interim. That takes you to Summerslam at least.

From there you've still got Becky avenging her loss to Asuka, the inevitable Horsewomen vs Horsewomen stuff too.

Do they see more money in Ronda avenging her loss, winning the Rumble to take on year long reigning champion Becky?

Does anyone remember amongst Bryan winning two matches and closing the show as champion it was at the expense of Batista and Randy Orton?

Why would they need another three way if Becky beats Charlotte?

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Your problem with that argument is simple.  WWE doesn't have stars.  They have interchangable cogs that can be replaced quickly, except for Brock and Ronda, who get them mainstream press.  

 

Besides the two MMA fighters, the only other star in WWE, is the WWE.

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1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

Again, and I know I keep saying this: Becky needs to beat Ronda at WrestleMania with absolutely nothing controversial or fluke like, because they need the largest possible audience see the crowning moment of their current biggest star. They get more eyeballs on the first Sunday in April than they will in August. Stars are made in one on one matches.

I don't see how this is so hard to understand. This is practically wrestling 101. It's a formula that has worked and there's no guarantees Ronda is even going to be around much past WM, let alone Summerslam. You have to strike while the iron is at its hottest which is WM when the world is watching. It's really simple.

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