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Raw Is JUSTICE FOR THE REVIVAL - 2/11/2019

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Just now, Craig H said:

I like triple threats quite a bit, but sometimes it doesn't fit. It's like looking back at Austin vs Rock, Austin vs HBK, Bret vs Yokozuna, Cena vs Batista, Cena vs HBK, and some others I'm forgetting and thinking that any of those needed a third person just to fuck with the formula. Other times I didn't mind it like with Daniel Bryan vs Batista vs Orton or Benoit vs HHH vs HBK. This is just one of those times where I want a one on one match and feel strongly enough that a one on one match would work better than a triple threat.

If triple threats were done in '94, Bret-Yoko-Luger would have been awesome. 

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3 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

If triple threats were done in '94, Bret-Yoko-Luger would have been awesome. 

I doubt that and the card would have suffered as a result considering that would mean not getting Bret vs Owen.

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6 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

So don't repeat the subsequent booking. 

When has Vince ever been good at not perpetuating sins?

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8 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I doubt that

No reason for that. The set up they used for WM10 would have been ripe for a triple threat if it was a common match type back then. 

Bret vs Owen is one of my favourite matches ever. But that title scene is ideal triple threat fodder and it'd have been damn good fun. And I wouldn't worry about Bret vs Owen. If the standards were different back then, I doubt they'd have built it and I doubt I'd know what I missed.

Fun hypothetical. I think about it often when musing about the parallels with Mania X, XX, and XXX.

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7 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Bret vs Owen is one of my favourite matches ever. But that title scene is ideal triple threat fodder and it'd have been damn good fun. And I wouldn't worry about Bret vs Owen. If the standards were different back then, I doubt they'd have built it and I doubt I'd know what I missed.

If there is any formula that would've made for a good Triple Threat match, it would've been Bret - Yoko - Lex.

I hate Luger with the fire of many stars, but I have to admit that All American Lex Luger was a white hot face at the time and if there was ever a heel that could've benefitted from having two other guys work the bulk of the match, it was Yoko.

If we're using the Becky logic and applying it to that timeframe, Luger was definitely the guy to put over and you could still build Bret -Owen for the future by having Owen screw Bret out of the pinfall and then have Lex smash Yoko with the forearm for the flash pin victory.

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1 hour ago, J.T. said:

And you wonder why it might be a good idea to have Becky lose. :D

Having Becky chase the title actually adds value to the belt, so if I were Jim Crockett and this was 80's NWA, she'd be chasing the belt forever because Becky chasing the belt would be more profitable for me.  It would put asses in seats every fucking week.

When the fuck has WWE ever booked a good face chases the champion angle? They used to never do it, and when they finally did, they fucked it up royally, and to this day they fuck it up every single time. 

And the HBK vs Triple H parts of the Mania 20 triple threat were dreadful, the best parts were Benoit/Trips, and Shawn never should've been let into that match to drag it the fuck down 

The XXX triple threat wasn't anything special, and the part where they tried to "work the crowd" with Bryan being hurt was just awful and they will do the exact same spot this year so we get stuck with a meaningless Ronda/Charlotte 6 minute stretch that just pulls focus away from Becky's eventual win. The match will be good, but it will do a less good job at what should be the only point of this match: exposing Becky to the largest possible audience, and showing that she's THE MAN.

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I still don't get the Revival's appeal. Just two dudes cosplaying Anderson & Blanchard, only they're not as good and midgets. 

 

#ShoehornCharlotte is absolutely a thing. It's brilliant to have her there, though, to take the heat off of Ronda. No matter how many jillion instagram followers someone has, this is the right move. Becky standing tall to end 'Mania will be the right move. 

 

That 6 man segment went WAYYYY too long. 133 guys on the Raw roster and six guys worked half the show? No wonder people are asking for their release. 

 

Super psyched for Seth Rollins; babyface flag-bearer this summer and fall. Ratings might dip to negative. ugh. Just a black hole of everything that makes wrestling good. A shitty interview that doesn't sell.

 

It's still nuts to me how they clearly attempted to load Raw with stars and Smackdown is clearly the better show. Ambrose is leaving, and I think he really is, Roman is probably done as a full-timer, especially if the Fast & Furious spinoff takes, and Raw is left with nothing but a crossfitter to carry them. Awful. McIntyre is in limbo again apparently, Strowman should be the top guy but Vince despises money. I guess all that's left is praying for the AOP to come back and squash the two chickenhawks that follow Foghorn Leghorn around and get their tag titles back. 

 

 

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Oh yeah, I forgot: they also suddenly remembered that Corbin and Drew were friends with Bobby Lashley as well.

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So is this entire thing being done just because Rousey is uncomfortable being booed (Which, good god, toughen up a little there. You wanted to be a wrestler, it’s part of the gig), or is it just because WWE had this set as a Triple Threat because reasons? Do we have it set in stone either way? Or is this just WWE taking a simple can’t miss straight line build and over complicating it for no reason?

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33 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

When the fuck has WWE ever booked a good face chases the champion angle? 

That's why I included the caveat about me being Crockett.  I am disappointed that you seemed to ignore that I was trying to promote that angle as a Southern booker.

33 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

They used to never do it, and when they finally did, they fucked it up royally, and to this day they fuck it up every single time. 

Eh, HHH's vanity fucked up his title reign.  Not really the book's fault.

The reason that the WWE continues to fuck up heel champion booking is because they either try to turn face workers into heels that really shouldn't be heels or cannot convince faces to heel turn *cough* Cena / Roman *cough* when it is most advantageous to do so.

33 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

And the HBK vs Triple H parts of the Mania 20 triple threat were dreadful, the best parts were Benoit/Trips, and Shawn never should've been let into that match to drag it the fuck down 

People hate Shawn's spots in that match because they did not want Shawn to win.  

People love the HHH / Nameless Worker's spots because it was pretty obvious from the Eddy / Angle match that Nameless Worker was going to win.  It was WrestleMania.  Send 'em home happy.

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20 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

So is this entire thing being done just because Rousey is uncomfortable being booed (Which, good god, toughen up a little there. You wanted to be a wrestler, it’s part of the gig), or is it just because WWE had this set as a Triple Threat because reasons? Do we have it set in stone either way? Or is this just WWE taking a simple can’t miss straight line build and over complicating it for no reason?

Yes to all of the above.

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12 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Yes to all of the above.

Well in that case, WWE is fucked. There is not a single thing that can be done to prevent Ronda from being booed at Mania other then taking her out of the match. Adding Charlotte to “divert heat” will not work. Anyone that is not Becky is going to be booed against Becky at Mania. The only way to divert heat from Ronda is having Charlotte beat her for the belt before Mania... but even that won’t work cause fans will view it as her refusing to do the job.

The options are Ronda toughens up or she quits.

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Neither Cena nor Roman really settled into the role of incidental heel and they've always been In the work business, so why do you think Rousey as green as she is would be comfortable with it? 

Especially since that's probably not the bag of goods she was sold when she signed up?

Even though she's been always been a polarizing figure in MMA, she's never really seemed to know how to handle any negative reactions she's received.  

She didn't hold any interviews or attend any pressers before her fight against Amanda Nunes because she knew the world clearly wanted to see her get her ass kicked and Amanda did not disappoint.

Then she arrives in the WWE to thunderous ovations and now she's back to people wanting to see her get murdered by someone who clearly has 100% crowd support.

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19 minutes ago, J.T. said:

That's why I included the caveat about me being Crockett.  I am disappointed that you seemed to ignore that I was trying to promote that angle as a Southern booker.

Eh, HHH's vanity fucked up his title reign.  Not really the book's fault.

I actually meant Yoko/Lex as the first time. 

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The WMXX main event being booked as a triple threat didn't matter as much because everyone knew the story being told was Benoit's journey and that if he did win it would be a career achievement win and not a passing of the torch.  The only question was if Benoit would actually climb that mountain.  

Becky vs. Ronda is about THE MAN vs. The undefeated 'BADDEST WOMAN ON THE PLANET".   It's Hogan vs. Andre or Stone Cold vs. The Rock.  Charlotte being thrown in the mix reduces it to a main event on a B-level show. 

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1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Becky vs. Ronda is about THE MAN vs. The undefeated 'BADDEST WOMAN ON THE PLANET".   It's Hogan vs. Andre or Stone Cold vs. The Rock.  Charlotte being thrown in the mix reduces it to a main event on a B-level show. 

I find the idea that the daughter of one of the greatest world champions to ever lace up boots and who has multiple title reigns herself somehow devalues this main event extremely hilarious.

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1 minute ago, J.T. said:

I find the idea that the daughter of one of the greatest world champions to ever lace up boots and who has multiple title reigns herself somehow devalues this main event extremely hilarious.

It muddies the water and draws focus away from the only thing that should matter in the match. They originally planned to run Charlotte/Ronda at the Rumble, but Vince was convinced that Charlotte needs to be in this "first women's main event" match as well. It's a bad idea that actively hurts the effort to get Becky over to a larger audience. It's fucking stupid booking.

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8 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Becky vs. Ronda is about THE MAN vs. The undefeated 'BADDEST WOMAN ON THE PLANET".   It's Hogan vs. Andre or Stone Cold vs. The Rock.  Charlotte being thrown in the mix reduces it to a main event on a B-level show. 

Becky/Ronda is neither of those matches. Hogan/Andre was the biggest hero conquering the biggest monster. Austin/Rock was the battle of the two biggest stars representing the Attitude era. Becky/Ronda is it own thing, probably closer to if you actually did get Tyson vs. Austin. The B-level show comment on the triple threat is going a bit far though I agree it will never be as big as a singles match.

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2 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I find the idea that the daughter of one of the greatest world champions to ever lace up boots and who has multiple title reigns herself somehow devalues this main event extremely hilarious.

She's not The Nature Boy.  She's not over to that degree and never has been. Before this Revolution took off Paige was more popular than Charlotte.  She is over where it can be a conversation, she's certainly top 5 on the female side but she's nowhere near as over as Becky is and the Becky vs. Charlotte confrontations aren't anywhere near as over as the Becky vs. Ronda stare down from a couple weeks back. 

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20 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

It muddies the water and draws focus away from the only thing that should matter in the match. They originally planned to run Charlotte/Ronda at the Rumble, but Vince was convinced that Charlotte needs to be in this "first women's main event" match as well.

It's a bad idea that actively hurts the effort to get Becky over to a larger audience. 

Becky is the biggest thing in the fucking fed, Brian.  Nothing can hurt the effort to get her over because she is already over.

If there is something that will hurt Becky is it putting her in the ring with the BADDEST WOMAN ON THE PLANET who is stammering over her promos and cannot effectively sell this match.

Becky losing the match would also hurt her, but even Vince can't be that stupid.... Can he?

The paralyzing fear of the idea that Charlotte may leave with the belt just tells me that this was the right call.  WWE will ride this rage for weeks. 

The downside being that the rest of the show that has not been about the Woman's title picture has really blown goats.  Someone should probably think about coming up with something decent to watch for the other parts of the fucking program..

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8 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I find the idea that the daughter of one of the greatest world champions to ever lace up boots and who has multiple title reigns herself somehow devalues this main event extremely hilarious.

Come on man, who Charlottes dad is and how many title reigns she has isn’t a key factor here. 

Would Reigns better Lesnar for the title have felt as big if you threw Randy Orton in there?

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6 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Becky/Ronda is neither of those matches. Hogan/Andre was the biggest hero conquering the biggest monster. Austin/Rock was the battle of the two biggest stars representing the Attitude era. Becky/Ronda is it own thing, probably closer to if you actually did get Tyson vs. Austin. The B-level show comment on the triple threat is going a bit far though I agree it will never be as big as a singles match.

I meant in terms of it being a match where two SUPERPOWERS are colliding. That is what WrestleMania was about and should be about.  This should be Hogan vs. Warrior for some 10-year old girl out there. 

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15 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

Come on man, who Charlottes dad is and how many title reigns she has isn’t a key factor here. 

Would Reigns better Lesnar for the title have felt as big if you threw Randy Orton in there?

Legacy and her past title reigns give her a better kayfabe argument for being there than Ruby Riott and I'd rather see Ruby in that match than Charlotte if a Triple Threat absolutely had to go down.

The fact that people are still beefing on the internet overnight just goes to show that this was the right move for the immediacy but If I had the book, there's no way I'd go through with the match itself.

15 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

Would Reigns better Lesnar for the title have felt as big if you threw Randy Orton in there?

The problem with your hypothetical is that you have put three guys in the ring that everyone would like to see die.

The only way the crowd wins with that Triple Threat match is if they all lose by countout and the title is help up for a tournament.

 

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9 minutes ago, J.T. said:

The problem with your hypothetical is that you have put three guys in the ring that everyone would like to see die.

The only way the crowd wins with that Triple Threat match is if they all lose by countout and the title is help up for a tournament.

 

I was going for the “Kid of a legend, who has more title reigns then they probably should” thing.

How about tossing Diesel into Shawn/Hart. Or Undertaker into Austin/Michaels? Or let’s toss Dusty Rhodes into Race/Flair from the first Starcade.

Sometimes a match should just be a singles match.

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21 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Becky is the biggest thing in the fucking fed, Brian.  Nothing can hurt the effort to get her over because she is already over.

Hence why I said "to a larger audience" man. Mania is the one show that draws a significantly larger then usual audience, and that's the people they need to have come out of that show thinking Becky Lynch is The Man, and adding a third person to a match always muddies the effort to put someone over.

She needs to beat Ronda one on one, and hopefully win new fans over in the process. Charlotte will take away from that.

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