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Raw Is JUSTICE FOR THE REVIVAL - 2/11/2019

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20 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

The fans love Becky and can't stand Ronda Rousey. Just embrace that and see what happens. Rousey is really awkward and unbelievable as a virtuous babyface here. 

That makes no sense.  She's the heir apparent to Roddy Piper so she's trying to be the smug yet confident plucky tweener; not some Ricky Steamboat pure as the driven snow babyface.

I never got the impression she was trying to be a virtuous face as I always thought she tried to bring some of her near arrogant confidence from her UFC days to this persona, but I don't think she expected to have a Cena / Reigns moment where her challenger's accolades came at her expense.  This is supposed to be "fake," right?

Ronda being awkward and floundering in her role as defending champion is precisely why Charlotte is here to save the day and maybe the match.

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2 minutes ago, J.T. said:

That makes no sense.  She's the heir apparent to Roddy Piper so she's trying to be the smug yet confident plucky tweener; not some Ricky Steamboat pure as the driven snow babyface.

I never got the impression she was trying to be a virtuous face as I always thought she tried to bring some of her near arrogant confidence from her UFC days to this persona, but I don't think she expected to have a Cena / Reigns moment where her challenger's accolades came at her expense.  This is supposed to be "fake," right?

Ronda being awkward and floundering in her role as defending champion is precisely why Charlotte is here to save the day and maybe the match.

The fact that this is happening is an indictment on WWE and Vince McMahon. A Rousey vs. Lynch match shouldn't need saving.

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21 minutes ago, J.T. said:

They already have reasons to boo her, but they are not the kayfabe reasons that help promote a match.

I honestly believe that this will ultimately end up being Ronda vs. Becky once the tone of the match becomes less about heel vs face and has more of a Respect Match feel to it.

Ronda should be Shawn Michaels here, and Becky is Stone Cold. 

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If it works people it's good for Vince.

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People getting "worked" is fucking annoying. It's trolling your fanbase. It's the same shit they've been doing for years now and viewership continues to drop.

Maybe, oh, I don't know, stop trying to work over your fanbase so much.

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18 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Ronda should be Shawn Michaels here, and Becky is Stone Cold. 

The fact that you, Craig, and millions of other people are frothing at the mouth over this is why booking a three way dance at this stage of the game is the best idea there is.

Following through with that sort of main event at a WrestleMania would be extremely stupid, though.

I'd keep the threat of the angle alive but I'd never follow through with it and now, I have 60 days to right the ship and get Ronda over with the right kind of heat.

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2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

People getting "worked" is fucking annoying. It's trolling your fanbase. It's the same shit they've been doing for years now and viewership continues to drop.

Maybe, oh, I don't know, stop trying to work over your fanbase so much.

Maybe they should just go ahead and publish the WrestleMania results tonight. It would be a shame if anybody got worked. 

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5 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Following through with a Triple Threat main event at a WrestleMania would be extremely stupid, though.

Noooooooooo!!

You were making so much sense... :( 

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7 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Noooooooooo!!

You were making so much sense... :( 

Eh.  As much as I love the working of marks, WM should really be about one on one competition if a title is on the line. .

Sorry if I let you down, man.

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1 minute ago, J.T. said:

Eh.  As much as I love the working of marks, WM should really be about one on one competition if a title is on the line.

I’ve had so many positive experiences with 3-ways that I struggle to subscribe to this kind of traditionalism. 

Still, if Charlotte gets taken out of the Raw match she has a better chance of leaving Mania with a belt. So it’s not all bad. :P 

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21 minutes ago, J.T. said:

The fact that you, Craig, and millions of other people are frothing at the mouth over this is why booking a three way dance at this stage of the game is the best idea there is.

Ehhh let's be honest. The people on this board are about all that's left of the audience. The people "frothing" over this are longtime fans and even that audience has been shrinking by the week.  Will I ever give up?  I have before. I've gone 1-2 years without watching. Some people never come back.  

If the move is to give the audience what they want,  it's clear that a triple threat is absolutely not what 99% of what's left of this audience wants.. 

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13 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I’ve had so many positive experiences with 3-ways that I struggle to subscribe to this kind of traditionalism. 

Charlotte's role in this angle is to shift the balance of the heat in this angle but as you can see in this thread and in that arena, the overwhelming majority of people do not want the Triple Threat booking to happen.

Somewhere along the line Ronda will get babyface shine by taking Charlotte out of the picture and this angle will boil down to a one on one match between her and Becky.

Vince won't leave money on the table by going through with the three way dance if it looks like it will kill the buyrates..... maybe.... because he's gone through with viewer killing angles before.

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2 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Charlotte's role in this angle is to shift the balance of the heat in this angle but as you can see in this thread and in that arena, the overwhelming majority of people do not want the Triple Threat booking to happen.

Somewhere along the line Ronda will get babyface shine by taking Charlotte out of the picture and this angle will boil down to a one on one match between her and Becky.

Vince won't leave money on the table by killing WM buyrates and going through with the three way dance.

What money would he be leaving on the table? 

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What a fucking match. No wonder they were going long every night on the house shows. I should've gone to the damn show. Although then I couldn't have fast forwarded Seth taking.

How many segments did that Bàlor/Drew Mac and six man thing take? Four or five. That's a lot, especially with how many people aren't getting used in this roster.

So... Dean's a face again? Okay, well, that angle worked well. 

Booking Bayley and Sasha to enter the chamber first is great on paper, they're the best team in it. But if Sasha still isn't fully cleared a week before the show, it seems risky. That triple threat killed the crowd when it was Samoans* vs Riot Squad.

Becky is so fucking good. And this is such a bad decision. There is no reason to put Charlotte in this. I know Becky is still going to be in it, obviously, but it's fucking dumb and killing the hottest thing in the company in the last five years.

*So Tamina is Samoan suddenly?

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3 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Charlotte's role in this angle is to shift the balance of the heat in this angle but as you can see in this thread and in that arena, the overwhelming majority of people do not want the Triple Threat booking to happen.

Somewhere along the line Ronda will get babyface shine by taking Charlotte out of the picture and this angle will boil down to a one on one match between her and Becky.

Vince won't leave money on the table by killing WM buyrates and going through with the three way dance.

For starters, they don't give a shit because buyrates aren't a thing. They have their paid subscribers and every year they give away WM for free. Insert R-Truth's "fuck you we got your money" gif here. Vince will do whatever he wants to do because it's his show, he thinks he knows more than the audience because he's the promoter, and, again, they already have your money. 

Secondly, Vince has left money on the table more times than I can remember. Again, if he's willing to job Roman out at WM 31 and WM 34 after giving him a superman push and creating the expectation that Roman is going to be crowned at WM, then why would this be any different?

You have to stop acting like this irrational, illogical, and impulsive man is rational, logical, and holds steady. Maybe if we were talking about HHH running this show I would agree with you, but it's Vince. No one knows what he's going to do one day from the next.

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If you wonder what makes me so cynical about the sport, this is probably it as an example on both sides:

Becky/Ronda IS the feud, on paper…and it would be if smarks still believed in kayfabe. The plucky babyface the fans chose against the Final Boss of WWE. 

However, the smarks have ignored kayfabe, and to them- the final boss isn’t Ronda Rousey. It’s Charlotte Flair. It has ALWAYS been Charlotte, and what's worse than that, it WILL ALWAYS BE Charlotte.

This is a problem, because Ronda Rousey is the final boss in kayfabe (she's the unbeaten, seemingly unbeatable MMA star who no one in WWE could possibly be in the league of...can they? CAN THEY???), but Charlotte is the final boss for reasons outside of kayfabe (she's Ric Flair's daughter, she's Triple H's friend's daughter, and she's a gorgeous blonde so OF COURSE Vince McMahon would push her, even if she couldn't wrestle and wasn't over, amirite? /s )

This comes into storyline because in kayfabe: Becky Lynch has beaten Charlotte. Hell, Becky Lynch has dispatched Charlotte Flair many, many times. Shit, the Survivor Series change said it all: In character, all Becky Lynch ever wanted was "I want the title, and I want to make it clear I'm not Charlotte Flair's sidekick and I'm great in my own right." By Becky choosing Charlotte at Survivor Series, the stronger words were unspoken: Becky Lynch has beaten Charlotte Flair so badly, and in the process gotten EVERYTHING she wanted and everything she had fought Charlotte Flair for, that secretly... Becky Lynch is even willing to consider being friends with Charlotte again. In WWE storyline, Becky Lynch has VANQUISHED Charlotte as badly as a performer could vanquish another enemy. 

And that would work, except this is what WWE people mean when they say "wins and losses don't matter": Perception is reality. Storylines, kayfabe, wins and losses: They don't matter as much as what the fans PERCEIVE. If the fans perceive a star as an underdog, they will virtually always be an underdog, and if the fans perceive a star as a star, they will always be a star. And right now, the fans are convinced that it's an inescapable fate, foretold by the stars in the sky, that one day...maybe not this week, maybe not next week, but ONE DAY...the other shoe is going to drop. Becky Lynch will be depushed and be a midcarder or jobber again because she doesn't have whatever "It" is in the WWE's eyes and they didn't want her to succeed, and Charlotte will get handed everything because she’s a Flair and she’s a blonde and she’s everything WWE wants from the top woman. 

It's the same reason people compare it to Roman Reigns with Charlotte right now- Roman Reigns's won-loss record was ABYSMAL compared to other "top babyfaces" if you really look at it, and Reigns never had that one run where he just kicked ass, took names, always won, never lost, and was booked as the conqueror the fans were told he was...but it didn't matter. Roman was IN THE FANS' HEAD, they perceived him as the top star because they were told he was the top star, and so Roman was ALWAYS going to be seen as the top star no matter how WWE booked him...and at the same time, no matter who Roman lost to or how clean it was, it wouldn't matter: The fans still saw him as Roman Reigns, so he couldn't have lost to a star, it meant absolutely nothing.

That's the same problem here. Charlotte needed to be in the match because quite frankly, Charlotte is IN THE FANS’ HEAD…and because of that, Becky’s already lost. Becky Lynch can beat Charlotte a million times...she can even beat Charlotte at Wrestlemania, clean as a sheet, dead center of the ring, Charlotte tapping out as Becky breaks her arm in the Dis-Arm-her, no problems from Rousey, no interference, Charlotte didn't have a hangnail, no excuses except Charlotte LOST, and Charlotte lost because Becky Lynch WAS BETTER THAN HER... and even then: the next morning, Becky Lynch will still be Becky Lynch, and Charlotte Flair will still be Charlotte Flair, and that means Charlotte STILL won.

So yes, Charlotte has to be in the main event of Wrestlemania…but it won’t matter. Even if Becky wins at Wrestlemania, fans will truly believe "well, the other shoe’s going to drop" for so long that eventually, the WWE will finally have the shoe drop and say "I knew it." It's almost the problem with fans where it's gone past "expecting the worst" to outright clinical depression- the fans have seemed to decide "I hope what I want happens" to "I want this to happen" to "Whatever. Even if I got what I want, WWE's just going to take it away from me, and I'll just be sad then. Better to be miserable now while I have it so that at least I'm not more miserable when I finally lose it."

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5 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

What a fucking match. No wonder they were going long every night on the house shows. I should've gone to the damn show. Although then I couldn't have fast forwarded Seth taking.

How many segments did that Bàlor/Drew Mac and six man thing take? Four or five. That's a lot, especially with how many people aren't getting used in this roster.

So... Dean's a face again? Okay, well, that angle worked well. 

Booking Bayley and Sasha to enter the chamber first is great on paper, they're the best team in it. But if Sasha still isn't fully cleared a week before the show, it seems risky. That triple threat killed the crowd when it was Samoans* vs Riot Squad.

Becky is so fucking good. And this is such a bad decision. There is no reason to put Charlotte in this. I know Becky is still going to be in it, obviously, but it's fucking dumb and killing the hottest thing in the company in the last five years.

*So Tamina is Samoan suddenly?

Apparently the six man segment lasted 41 minutes!!! It certainly felt like forever.

They've always played fast and loose with who is Samoan, Tongan, etc. They just wind up labeling everyone as Samoan, which has never not felt weird.

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35 minutes ago, J.T. said:

The fact that you, Craig, and millions of other people are frothing at the mouth over this is why booking a three way dance at this stage of the game is the best idea there is.

Following through with that sort of main event at a WrestleMania would be extremely stupid, though.

I'd keep the threat of the angle alive but I'd never follow through with it and now, I have 60 days to right the ship and get Ronda over with the right kind of heat.

J.T. let it be known here and now that if you are right and this is really some masterful long game by Vince to just end up making Rousey vs. Lynch one-on-one, I will eat a giant plate of crow with a side of catsup. 

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Just now, TheVileOne said:

J.T. let it be known here and now that if you are right and this is really some masterful long game by Vince to just end up making Rousey vs. Lynch one-on-one, I will eat a giant plate of crow with a side of catsup. 

It's what I would do and it's the logical thing to do if your intention is to keep your talent pool solid going forward.  It's what an employer that looks out for his employees would do...

..so it's the thing that I hope that Vince would do but have little faith that he will.

If Creative cannot get Ronda to embrace working quasi-heel or cannot get the crowd to at least embrace her a little in about 45 days, you poor fucks are going to get a Triple Threat match as your WM main event.

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16 minutes ago, J.T. said:

you poor fucks are going to get a Triple Threat match as your WM main event.

I quite enjoyed the first 2.

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5 minutes ago, GodzillaPerez said:

I quite enjoyed the first 2.

This booking kinda does remind me of the XX booking where He Who Must Not Be Named By Name beat HHH and Shawn Michaels.  I think the roof of the sports bar I was in blew off when HHH tapped out.

The right person at the time did in fact go over, but the subsequent title reign was rather lackluster.

Not exactly the history you want to repeat if the idea is for Becky to go over.

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35 minutes ago, Craig H said:

For starters, they don't give a shit because buyrates aren't a thing. They have their paid subscribers and every year they give away WM for free. Insert R-Truth's "fuck you we got your money" gif here. Vince will do whatever he wants to do because it's his show, he thinks he knows more than the audience because he's the promoter, and, again, they already have your money. 

Secondly, Vince has left money on the table more times than I can remember. Again, if he's willing to job Roman out at WM 31 and WM 34 after giving him a superman push and creating the expectation that Roman is going to be crowned at WM, then why would this be any different?

You have to stop acting like this irrational, illogical, and impulsive man is rational, logical, and holds steady. Maybe if we were talking about HHH running this show I would agree with you, but it's Vince. No one knows what he's going to do one day from the next.

This booking is aimed at guys like you, Sorceress Knight, and Fowler.  Everyone falling in love with Becky has always been the plan, but I don't think that Ronda struggling with legit heat so much that she can't sell the angle in a promo was part of the plan.  

That's why Charlotte is in the booking at least for the time being.

The only way this angle "kills the hottest thing in five years" is if Becky does not win and I think it is a safe bet that Becky leaves the ring as your new champ.

You guys really shouldn't worry about WrestleMania.  

It's what might happen on the Raw after WrestleMania that should scare the shit out of you.  You guys will be setting your living room sofas on fire if Becky is a Lex Luger 24 hour champion and the booking will drink deep of your salty tears... and it will be the most horrible decision anyone has ever made.

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3 minutes ago, J.T. said:

This booking kinda does remind me of the XX booking where He Who Must Not Be Named By Name beat HHH and Shawn Michaels.  I think the roof of the sports bar I was in blew off when HHH tapped out.

The right person at the time did in fact go over, but the subsequent title reign was rather lackluster.

Not exactly the history you want to repeat if the idea is for Becky to go over.

So don't repeat the subsequent booking. It's not like you have a HHH-HBK type feud ready to steal the spotlight away from a glorified thank you reign. 

And they're not stupid enough to do a Eugene thing again... Unless Nia doing intergender matches turns out to be the 2019 Eugene thing... Oh lord...

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I like triple threats quite a bit, but sometimes it doesn't fit. It's like looking back at Austin vs Rock, Austin vs HBK, Bret vs Yokozuna, Cena vs Batista, Cena vs HBK, and some others I'm forgetting and thinking that any of those needed a third person just to fuck with the formula. Other times I didn't mind it like with Daniel Bryan vs Batista vs Orton or Benoit vs HHH vs HBK. This is just one of those times where I want a one on one match and feel strongly enough that a one on one match would work better than a triple threat.

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