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February 2023 Wrestling Discussion

The Natural

By The Natural
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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John E. Dynamite

John E. Dynamite

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/20/2023 at 10:26 PM, A_K said:

commonly accepted criticisms drowned out by masturbatory toxic bullshit

Listen, there's no way this company is ever going to get any better. It's downhill from here and I don't see how this isn't a ship worth abandoning. The chase with Kawada was acceptable, I guess. From the unmasking, to the Tag League win, to the failed challenges and everything else, it made enough sense. But now you've had Kawada bury your top gaijin just so his title reign can be part of the same chase they've been running since 1989 at least, and here he is trying to get his heat back after dropping the fall to Misawa like an absolute idiot in front of a crowd that frankly deserved better. I don't care if he gets the pin in this big tag match coming up. It's more proof that Inoki is the only person that understands this market (well, Inoki and me) and if AJPW thinks they can make a killing out of filling up Sumo Hall with the same old marks every month I'll eat my fiddle. But I think I'll be playing it while the company burns. 

There's also NO reason to assume that Tsuruta is ever going to rise up the card again. He's slumming it with Momota and Eigen and I have to wonder if there isn't some underlying health or political factor that no-talent Giant Baba jerk is keeping from us. Speaking of which! I'm not a doctor but I was able to call the death of my grandmother to the week and I'm pretty sure ol' Shohei and his stupid-looking gigantism isn't making it out of the decade. And what will happen to the company then? Nothing good. Nothing that the real power-brokers - the TV company - wants to deal with. Just abandon ship now. It's a pathetic farce. The gaijin will stop signing up once Motoko runs out of geisha makeup to put on for them. Taue isn't a star no matter how hard this stupid company keeps trying. They'll never make me or anyone else care about any junior heavyweight. God forbid they ever try to book a shooter. I guarantee they'll try to run the Tokyo Dome in the next few years and never follow up on it. It is June 1995 and I am the stupidest asshole in the world and I'm going to call this post out for false equivalency when the real intent is pointing out how miserable doomsaying is and how great pro-wrestling can persist beyond problems big or small. So you should all just stop watching this and pretty much everything else right now. Not me, though, I gotta keep hating or I'd be out of a hobby.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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twiztor

twiztor

Posted
Posted

"next week" in my 2003 TNA watch....

the first Ultimate-X match! i have seen it before, but never with any context. pretty neat to be coming across some of the things that i actually remember/heard about at the time, because so much of this is brand new to me.

Russo still sucks, BTW, but he is marginally less abrasive than he was when he first debuted at the beginning of the year.

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

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"I think my Dad, Stu would have had a lot of respect for Rihanna as a worker. He would often tell us of how he and his family would survive the Saskatchewan winter in a tent with his 14 brothers and sisters by listening to old reggae albums they had found. Whenever I would call home from the road, and talk about problems I was facing, he'd often say to me "“If you get down and quarrel every day, you’re saying prayers to the devils, I say.” which at the time I just thought was an old timey shooters way of saying not to go looking for conflict. I later discovered he was quoting Bob Marley.

I really don't know what she ever saw in that lousy no good Chris Brown. I think when you look at him you see someone who was sloppy and didn't take pride in his work. If you were on the road in lonely hotel rooms with the boys travelling up and down the road on tour with this guy, would you trust him to get you home safely to your wife and kids? Something a lot of the boys would thank me for when I was on top, and I took great pride in.

I think my brother Owen would have taken great pride in prank calling Chris Brown and pretending to be legendary 1950s wrestling promoter Sam Muchnick. He'd have him in fits trying to work out who it was and get really hot. I really miss that."

Edited by GuerrillaMonsoon
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John E. Dynamite

John E. Dynamite

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/20/2023 at 8:52 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Ariel, please stop posting on DVDVR. 

On 2/20/2023 at 9:02 PM, A_K said:

You're right, you're right - enough is enough. Booker of The Year will surely get eyes away from this bread & circuses and back to the product that counts, by scaling 1 mil views for the 2nd time in 5 months with Moxley/Evil Uno and Big Bill gracing screens headed into the quarterly PPV.

Called the Bitcoin bottom to the exact day in November; calling the 700ks for Dynamite on deck in short order. Arenas may be so darkened by then it'll be hard to see them but when you know, you know 🔮

You absolutely love to see it.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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Greggulator

Greggulator

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Posted

I need help for a match I am writing in my e-fed. (Do not mock me, I know.) Looking for good comedy match recommendations and comedy spots. 
 

Here is the outline of the match: My characters are the faves. I have a young, Uber athletic Shelton Benjamin/Montez Ford type who is still lacking technique. He has a manager who is a cagey, wily older woman who loves shenanigans. They are lovable scoundrels - think Lie Cheat Steal era Eddie stunts but with a really athletic moveset with a manager who has been described as “Blanche Devereaux meets Robin Hood.”

He has a title match. The champion is an older veteran GOAT type heel who is both a physical force and technical master with perhaps their last reign as champ. The has a manager who is like Harley Race. They are Uber serious wrestlers who hate comedy/fun/gimmicks.

So the match itself: My dudes are going to hype up their athletic advantage, which the overly serious heels bite into. But then when the match comes, my dudes just turn it into a comedy shtick fest that the heels are not ready for and it gets under their skin which gives my people an advantage.

So I will take any suggestions of different spots or matches I can watch to ape things.

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Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander

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35 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

My dudes are going to hype up their athletic advantage, which the overly serious heels bite into. But then when the match comes, my dudes just turn it into a comedy shtick fest that the heels are not ready for and it gets under their skin which gives my people an advantage.

are you familiar with the 'spot' in Rocky II with Apollo in the corner and he almost invites Rocky in, and moves out of the corner to avoid the punch to show how fast he was?

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Hamhock

Hamhock

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

are you familiar with the 'spot' in Rocky II with Apollo in the corner and he almost invites Rocky in, and moves out of the corner to avoid the punch to show how fast he was?

Real-life example from Mayweather/Hatton fight:

BossyShadyCottonmouth-size_restricted.gi

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John E. Dynamite

John E. Dynamite

Posted
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I've been grumbling and troll-hunting all day and I always feel bad when I come here and do anything other than talk about the good wrestling I watched + why it's good SO I gotta balance things out again

The Viernes Espectacular that CMLL uploaded this week (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr-aZ2Y5N-s) really really rocked, in the sense that nothing was a MOTYC but everything was at a bare minimum "great" and showcased a ton of talent. The company has become my #2 active promotion until I find somebody from Japan that's more interesting than my late-nite archive.org deep dives (basically you have to be better than Erotic Terrorist Yingling-era HUSTLE and it turns out that's a high bar).

I wanna find a better avenue to pimp/shill/boost all my guys. Panterita Del Ring Jr. and Soberano Jr. and Fugaz and more than a few others are really gettin' my blood flowing, Atlantis Jr. is paying off, Mistico is Mistico again and way better for it and all the dudes who already ruled still rule. They're undergoing their own "women's revolution" and it's been pretty engaging. I wouldn't say I watch every week but I watch most weeks and every time I check in I come to the conclusion that WAY MORE PEOPLE should be talking about this stuff given the match quality, production values, and ease of viewing. I just wish their YouTube channel was better organized and more English-friendly, it really wouldn't take that much more work.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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Octopus

Octopus

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Greggulator said:

I need help for a match I am writing in my e-fed. (Do not mock me, I know.) Looking for good comedy match recommendations and comedy spots. 
 

Here is the outline of the match: My characters are the faves. I have a young, Uber athletic Shelton Benjamin/Montez Ford type who is still lacking technique. He has a manager who is a cagey, wily older woman who loves shenanigans. They are lovable scoundrels - think Lie Cheat Steal era Eddie stunts but with a really athletic moveset with a manager who has been described as “Blanche Devereaux meets Robin Hood.”

He has a title match. The champion is an older veteran GOAT type heel who is both a physical force and technical master with perhaps their last reign as champ. The has a manager who is like Harley Race. They are Uber serious wrestlers who hate comedy/fun/gimmicks.

So the match itself: My dudes are going to hype up their athletic advantage, which the overly serious heels bite into. But then when the match comes, my dudes just turn it into a comedy shtick fest that the heels are not ready for and it gets under their skin which gives my people an advantage.

So I will take any suggestions of different spots or matches I can watch to ape things.

Bull rope match - The beauty of this is it can be both funny at moments but also suspenseful and/ or brutal if you choose it to be. The funny athletic face can do things like dive out of the ring which will whip the serious heel to get caught up in the ropes. Also get caught up in going around the ref or manager and having everyone tied up together. Classic rope between the legs never hurts. Maybe the funny manager takes the turnbuckle off and tosses it to the hood guy so he can get that point or even wins it that way. 

 

Face must win a collegiate style wrestling bout to get the title shot - A bit of a pre match bit for the stipulated. The serious heel wears a singlet and head gear. The face wears his normal attire. Looks like it’s going to be an easy win for the bad guy, but you get tons of comedic rolling around the ring where the good guy is in control. Tying the arms together struggling for a pin and the good guy gets out of it by giving him a wet willy. Maybe some tickling and the heel giggles like the Pillsbury Doughboy. More so a good guy gets underestimated and clearly wins to lead to a match. 

 

Cage Match - The reason for it is to keep the managers out of the ring. The heel looks at it as a good stipulation because the good guy will be trapped in with him. But then in the match you can have the more athletic face make explosive near escapes for going for the climb. Classic Toru Yano bits but instead of starting with taking off the turnbuckle padding it’s just climbing the cage, getting caught, escaping the hold, climbing the other wall, getting caught, repeat until the heel is winded. Once winded there can be Les Kellet bits but instead of rolling up for a pin it’s being thrown into the cage. Maybe have the funny manager start greasing up the parts of the cage the heel is trying to climb with a stick of butter. 

 

The world is your oyster.

————-

@John E. Dynamite, I will try to lucha that soon!

Edited by Octopus
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Zakk_Sabbath

Zakk_Sabbath

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, zendragon said:

I won't bear any Big Bill slander. Big dudes goozling smaller dudes has always been and always will be at the essence of pro-wrestling

I'll second this - Bill was great this week in the tag match, and he's gotten in fantastic shape. I didn't get to see a ton of his post-WWE stuff (I know he had a personal issue early on) but I recently caught him wrestling Curt Hawkins in a no DQ match on the TNA Pluto channel (not sure when it actually aired) and he was tremendous there too with similar oomph to that which we saw Weds night, so I'm really glad to see him getting a shot. 

No slander on the Firm, but I'd like to see Bill move up the card a bit at some point - even if not pushed to the moon, maybe eat a couple of those 'vanquish the monster' pins that have unfortunately fallen at Lance Archer's feet over the last couple years, and share the load a bit there. Plenty of fun to be had in either men's undercard title scene, too: he could have good big man matches with Joe and Wardlow, or toss Darby around a bunch in the TNT division - as far as the AA title, I don't know if Big Bill would be open to doing anything comedic-leaning, but I think there could be some mileage in him being the frustrated Elmer Fudd-straight man to OC's Bugs Bunny.

Edited by Zakk_Sabbath
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The Natural

The Natural

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Keiji Muto had his retirement matches this week and got me thinking about the best last match/the worst last match ever you've seen.

Best: Kenta Kobashi's.

Kenta Kobashi/Keiji Muto/Kensuke Sasaki/Jun Akiyama vs. KENTA/Go Shiosaki/Yoshinobu Kanemura/Maybach Taniguchi. Pro-Wrestling NOAH Final Burning in Budokan 2013. Kobashi is in my top five Greatest Wrestlers of All Time with Bryan Danielson #1, Kazuchika Okada, Bret Hart and Hiroshi Tanahashi.

Worst: Shawn Michaels.

Shawn Michaels/Triple H vs. The Undertaker/Kane. WWE Crown Jewel 2020. Michaels vs. Undertaker at WWE WrestleMania XXVI in the main event was perfect. Michaels stuck to his retirement until THAT match at Blood Money when everything went wrong. One of the worst matches ever. Surprised Michaels hasn't comeback so it isn't his last.

Edited by The Natural
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Log

Log

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I'll second this - Bill was great this week in the tag match, and he's gotten in fantastic shape. I didn't get to see a ton of his post-WWE stuff (I know he had a personal issue early on) but I recently caught him wrestling Curt Hawkins in a no DQ match on the TNA Pluto channel (not sure when it actually aired) and he was tremendous there too with similar oomph to that which we saw Weds night, so I'm really glad to see him getting a shot. 

No slander on the Firm, but I'd like to see Bill move up the card a bit at some point - even if not pushed to the moon, maybe eat a couple of those 'vanquish the monster' pins that have unfortunately fallen at Lance Archer's feet over the last couple years, and share the load a bit there. Plenty of fun to be had in either men's undercard title scene, too: he could have good big man matches with Joe and Wardlow, or toss Darby around a bunch in the TNT division - as far as the AA title, I don't know if Big Bill would be open to doing anything comedic-leaning, but I think there could be some mileage in him being the frustrated Elmer Fudd-straight man to OC's Bugs Bunny.

Ooh, Big Bill and Archer should team up and destroy some little tag team dudes for a while. Their Dark squashes could be a blast.

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Just Dave

Just Dave

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Greggulator said:

I need help for a match I am writing in my e-fed. (Do not mock me, I know.) Looking for good comedy match recommendations and comedy spots. 
 

Here is the outline of the match: My characters are the faves. I have a young, Uber athletic Shelton Benjamin/Montez Ford type who is still lacking technique. He has a manager who is a cagey, wily older woman who loves shenanigans. They are lovable scoundrels - think Lie Cheat Steal era Eddie stunts but with a really athletic moveset with a manager who has been described as “Blanche Devereaux meets Robin Hood.”

He has a title match. The champion is an older veteran GOAT type heel who is both a physical force and technical master with perhaps their last reign as champ. The has a manager who is like Harley Race. They are Uber serious wrestlers who hate comedy/fun/gimmicks.

So the match itself: My dudes are going to hype up their athletic advantage, which the overly serious heels bite into. But then when the match comes, my dudes just turn it into a comedy shtick fest that the heels are not ready for and it gets under their skin which gives my people an advantage.

So I will take any suggestions of different spots or matches I can watch to ape things.

I think the cutoffs would be super important in something like this. Like, the serious heel is willing to put up with a certain amount of horseshit, but at specific times will just clothesline the babyface out of his shoes. Like, "that's about enough of that."

There's a really great Lucha Underground trios where Pimpernela Escarlata and Mascarita Estrada team with someone else who's name escapes me against Mil Muertes' crew of flunkies. The technicos are able to keep the heels off balance with shenanigans early but then the heels tighten up and end up squashing the second half of the match. Lucha Underground would actually probably be a really good resource to mine from for athletic shenanigans. I wish I could remember more about that specific trios match. 

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