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July 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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43 minutes ago, The Natural said:

I was 19 in 2003 when I first got into Ring of Honour.

Yeah, so basically everyone more than a couple of years younger than you would most likely not be of age to find ROH at the time.

I don't know how well this describes the current AEW fan base, but I'd figure at least to some extent, right?

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Punk winning the title at MITB '11 was the last time I was genuinely excited about anything WWE. That excitement quickly went away. I never trusted them to actually follow through on a cool storyline after that.

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10 hours ago, The Natural said:
  • The streak is over. The Undertaker loses at WrestleMania XXX to Brock Lesnar.
  • Team Nexus lose to Team WWE at SummerSlam 2010.
  • WWE fucking up Summer of Punk after Money in the Bank 2011.
  • The ending to Seth Rollins vs. The Fiend inside Hell in a Cell, October 2019.
  • The Fiend losing the WWE Universal Championship to Goldberg at Super Showdown 2020.
  • Randy Orton vs. The Fiend at WrestleMania XXXVII, turned out to be Wyatt's last WWE match.
  • Triple H beats Booker T at WrestleMania XIX to retain the World Heavyweight Championship. The reign of terror.
  • Katie Vick.
  • Jinder Mahal wins the WWE Championship from Randy Orton at Backlash 2017.
  • Jinder Mahal successfully defends the WWE Championship against Shinsuke Nakamura at SummerSlam 2017.
  • Charlotte Flair beating Sasha Banks and Becky Lynch to become the first WWE Women's Champion at WrestleMania XXXII. Sasha should.
  • Charlotte Flair beating Asuka to defend the WWE Smackdown Women's Championship and ending Asuka's undefeated streak, WrestleMania XXXIV.
  • Charlotte Flair being added to Ronda Rousey vs. Becky Lynch at WrestleMania XXXV.
  • Charlotte Flair beating Rhea Ripley for the NXT Women's Championship at WrestleMania XXXVI.
  • Kofi Kingston being humiliated to Brock Lesnar dropping the WWE Championship in less than 10 seconds.
  • The Jeff Hardy Victory Road 2011 incident. Only Sting came out with any credit.
  • Muhammad Hassan and his soldiers attack the Undertaker in a terrorist angle coinciding with the real life 7th July 2005 terrorist attack in the UK.
  • Bringing back fucking Hulk Hogan.
  • Rey Mysterio winning the WWE Championship and losing it to John Cena on the same RAW in the Summer of 2011.
  • John Cena beats Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules 2012.
  • Not making Cesaro a multi-time world champion.
  • Anything involving Brock Lesnar after 2015 with a few exceptions.
  • Christian finally wins a world title, the World Heavyweight Championship at Extreme Rules 2011 only to lose it on the post Extreme Rules 2011 Smackdown to Randy Orton.
  • Luke Harper not getting added to the WWE Championship match between Bray Wyatt and Randy Orton at WrestleMania XXXIII.
  • Triple H beats Sting at WrestleMania XXXI with Sting getting help from the nWo. Should have been Sting vs. The Undertaker.
  • Not making Cesaro a multi-time world champion.
  • Jeff Jarrett's multiple reigns of terror in TNA as NWA World Heavyweight Champion.
  • Hogan and Bischoff regime in TNA.
  • The IWGP Heavyweight Championship V4 and the IWGP Intercontinental Championship replaced by the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship. Hate that fucking thing.

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Breaking The Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak was the worst.

Booking the 2015 Royal Rumble as a giant fuck you to the fans, while simultaneously trying to use it as the beginning of Roman's mega-push...

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If we're talking the booking decision that made me stop watching the product completely, I think I've said it here before but that was the Fiend/Rollins cell match. I was hanging on by a thread anyway by that point due to reasons both related to and unrelated to the in-ring product/booking, but after that I was just like, "why the fuck am I bothering with this shit?"

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I'd agree that the worst booking decision was Undertaker losing the streak, leading to years of Lesnar/Roman. If we were looking at the last 25 years instead of 20, my answer would be the WCW/WWE "invasion." That might be the biggest missed opportunity in wrestling history, for me.

If we're talking about booking decisions that put me off of a given promotion personally, it's Shinsuke Nakamura's handling on WWE's main roster. When he and AJ faced off in that MITB, that crowd knew why it was a big deal and reacted accordingly. Instead, Nak loses to Mahal twice, has a so-so match with AJ at Wrestlemania (which again should've been an absolute sure thing), leading to a heel turn that pretty much nobody wanted. That Wrestlemania match was the thing that made me say "if they can screw even that up, which they did, then there's no point to watching this product any longer."

Granted Nakamura may not be entirely blameless in wanting to take his foot off the gas a bit for the sake of longevity, but having him lose to Jinder twice followed by the Wrestlemania heel turn is unforgivable, booking-wise.

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On 7/17/2022 at 9:27 AM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Pretty sure Sasha and Alexa had the largest fee before McMahon demanded a cut. 

Didn't Roman have a super high Cameo fee too? Usually if it's high it's to deter people from doing it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, The Comedian said:

Booking the 2015 Royal Rumble as a giant fuck you to the fans, while simultaneously trying to use it as the beginning of Roman's mega-push...

That's a good shout.

Edited by The Natural
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More recently, having the gall to run Roman vs Brock AGAIN to main event Summerslam has to be up there. Absolute middle finger to the roster.

Edited by SturmCRF
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1 hour ago, Ramo2653 said:

Didn't Roman have a super high Cameo fee too? Usually if it's high it's to deter people from doing it.

But the wrestler who really coined it in from Cameo was Big E, who was more affordable and therefore got thousands of requests.

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13 hours ago, The Natural said:
What do you think is the worst wrestling booking decision made in the last 20 years?

all of yours are good shouts, i can't disagree with any of them (even if i didn't watch most of them live). Here's mine:

1. John Cena. that's it, that's the worst. the superman push that WWE gave him turned me off their product forever. 

2. the "Rosie O'Donnell" vs. "Donald Trump" match on Raw. why did this even exist?

Spoiler

 

3. 53 year old Hulk Hogan beating Randy Orton at SummerSlam 2006. (and really, any appearance of Hulk Hogan after the 2002 nWo reformation and subsequent Red & Yellow nostalgia run). I'm with Natural. Fuck HH.

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8 hours ago, The Natural said:

This is probably my #1 moment in wrestling this year at AEW Revolution and how it happened on my Birthday, 6th of March.

I caught Punk in ROH not long before he signed with WWE.  So between a live show or two and DVDs I was thankfully familiar with what he was doing.  I immediately got chills when the song started and it was surreal seeing an older Punk go back to this.  I knew my friends and some in the crowd wouldn't get it but man this is what I remember the most from the show.  Add to it being Punk messing with MFJ's younger self and it added so much going into such a great match.

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Worst booking - 

Making Cesaro a "Paul Heyman Guy" for the sole purpose of having Heyman on TV every week cutting promos about Brock ending the streak. We didn't even build to a Cesaro v Lesnar match!

How do you fuck it up that badly!?!

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What's the best booking decision that any company has made that was followed up the most ineptly? 

Like, I'm thinking the widest gulf between "initial booking decision" and "fallout (or lack thereof) to build out from initial booking decision."

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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19 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

Ric Flair's Last Match has been revealed:

  Hide contents

18029748086464430071?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwrestlingnews.co%2F.image%2Ft_share%2FMTkwOTkxMDg2NTk5MDIxOTM0%2Fflairlast.png&fb_obo=1&utld=wrestlingnews.co&stp=c0.5000x0.5000f_dst-jpg_flffffff_p500x261_q75&ccb=13-1&oh=00_AT-wEemTTcTCV29F4TcgkqAAYXmqcaHag0nv47H6Xn-TKQ&oe=62D745C0&_nc_sid=c504da

Flair & Andrade vs. Jeff Jarrett & Jay Lethal, July 31

 

AEW vs WWE. The Forbidden Door has been demolished. 

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15 hours ago, The Natural said:
The streak is over. The Undertaker loses at WrestleMania XXX to Brock Lesnar. I think this was the best way to go with ending the streak. Lesnar replaced him as the special attraction guy, Takers last few Mania matches after this were awful. Right time to do it. Unfortunately, we ended up with a Lesnar/Reigns infinite loop as a result. Without the benefit of hindsight, right decision.
  • Team Nexus lose to Team WWE at SummerSlam 2010. yeah this sucked and made no sense.
  • WWE fucking up Summer of Punk after Money in the Bank 2011. I don't think they fucked this one up so much as deliberately sabotaged it.
  • The ending to Seth Rollins vs. The Fiend inside Hell in a Cell, October 2019. awful but still not a candle on the Ambrose/Rollins HIAC with hologram run in.
  • The Fiend losing the WWE Universal Championship to Goldberg at Super Showdown 2020. Goldberg/Reigns could have been cool if everything didn't pan out as it did. Prepared to give benefit of the doubt. Sucky decision in hindsight.
  • Randy Orton vs. The Fiend at WrestleMania XXXVII, turned out to be Wyatt's last WWE match. not even their worst Wrestlemania match
  • Triple H beats Booker T at WrestleMania XIX to retain the World Heavyweight Championship. The reign of terror. I think things go down differently had Goldberg not signed that week. Again, right decision, terrible execution with both the awful finish and the shitty Goldberg Triple H program where both guys were hurt.
  • Katie Vick. cant really defend that one.
  • Jinder Mahal wins the WWE Championship from Randy Orton at Backlash 2017. not the worst idea. Just again terrible execution.
  • Jinder Mahal successfully defends the WWE Championship against Shinsuke Nakamura at SummerSlam 2017. ehh, Nakamura was proven to be a flop as a top guy anyway. He's phoned the whole run in and been largely uninteresting as a character.
  • Charlotte Flair beating Sasha Banks and Becky Lynch to become the first WWE Women's Champion at WrestleMania XXXII. Sasha should. can't remember this far back. 
  • Charlotte Flair beating Asuka to defend the WWE Smackdown Women's Championship and ending Asuka's undefeated streak, WrestleMania XXXIV. was the right call at the time. Terribly executed by instead having Asuka give back a heap of losses rather than chasing the title
  • Charlotte Flair being added to Ronda Rousey vs. Becky Lynch at WrestleMania XXXV. I didn't like it at the time, but I thought she added plenty to the build up and the match itself even if no one thought she was winning. If we never get Rousey Becky one on one then it's a missed opportunity and a bad call.
  • Charlotte Flair beating Rhea Ripley for the NXT Women's Championship at WrestleMania XXXVI. not ideal. Terrible execution but cool idea in theory if Flair actually put someone over in NXT rather than lose it in a three way without being pinned, while Rhea redemption story falls flat year after.
  • Kofi Kingston being humiliated to Brock Lesnar dropping the WWE Championship in less than 10 seconds. humiliated probably a stretch, I thought it made sense contextually, shock value on new network. In the long run it needed the rematch Cena got after being smashed with Kofi working a more conservative strategy but instead back of the queue.
  • The Jeff Hardy Victory Road 2011 incident. Only Sting came out with any credit. not really a booking decision
  • Muhammad Hassan and his soldiers attack the Undertaker in a terrorist angle coinciding with the real life 7th July 2005 terrorist attack in the UK. unfortunate timing. I feel bad for the guy having his whole career ruined like that. Otherwise tasteless. 
  • Bringing back fucking Hulk Hogan. if Hogan left in 2002. It's a great end to his career. He puts over Rock, Angle, Lesnar, gives a rub to Edge and Kane in the process. Everything after the return in 2003 is terrible.
  • Rey Mysterio winning the WWE Championship and losing it to John Cena on the same RAW in the Summer of 2011. yeah this was silly.
  • John Cena beats Brock Lesnar at Extreme Rules 2012. not the worst idea, just awful execution and built up to a different story with HHH that no one wanted to see.
  • Not making Cesaro a multi-time world champion.
  • Anything involving Brock Lesnar after 2015 with a few exceptions.
  • Christian finally wins a world title, the World Heavyweight Championship at Extreme Rules 2011 only to lose it on the post Extreme Rules 2011 Smackdown to Randy Orton. this was awesome. The PPV match where title could change hands on a DQ was a great match.  
  • Luke Harper not getting added to the WWE Championship match between Bray Wyatt and Randy Orton at WrestleMania XXXIII. and then tagging with Orton next week as if nothing ever happened.
  • Triple H beats Sting at WrestleMania XXXI with Sting getting help from the nWo. Should have been Sting vs. The Undertaker.  no arguments there
  • Not making Cesaro a multi-time world champion.
  • Jeff Jarrett's multiple reigns of terror in TNA as NWA World Heavyweight Champion. too broad a subject. On the whole missed the mark with Raven and Monty Brown but for the most part he made sense as a reliable name guy with a roster full of unreliable and unknown
  • Hogan and Bischoff regime in TNA. 
  • The IWGP Heavyweight Championship V4 and the IWGP Intercontinental Championship replaced by the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship. Hate that fucking thing.

---- 

Breaking The Undertaker's Wrestlemania streak was the worst.

 

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23 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

AEW vs WWE. The Forbidden Door has been demolished. 

Should have involved him turning on sting somehow 

Edited by odessasteps
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the "last 20 years" thing does eliminate all answers about the Invasion, which helps mix things up a little

This happened before July 2002 but the NWO debut at No Way Out should have been done differently from what they did. Although they probably made some money because of the Hogan nostalgia run and due to Hogan/Rock.

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16 hours ago, The Natural said:

 


taking the most simple definition of good booking vs bad booking being "good booking builds audience by making more people want to watch the next show" vs "bad booking shrinks the audience by making fewer people watch the next show" and thus defining contenders for "worst booking decision" as those that cause the greatest reduction in audience...

since "the last 20 years" still barely includes 2003 I'm going to take this opportunity to ONCE AGAIN point out that Triple H beating Booker T emphatically at WM19, specifically after that kind of a build, permanently eroded some of my wrestling fandom.

And that's what this question is, for me, all about.  The decisions that made you not wanna watch [as much] anymore, for significant lengths of time.

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