SirSmUgly

Aw, I like Indiana. I think it's a fun place to fly over when I'm headed to an actually desirable destination.

I don't have a problem with paying eighty bucks for a new release, but I recognize that I'm a coastal urbanite with no kids and a white collar job. There are such aggressive sales now with games that people will be able to wait a few months and play the games that they want to play. Even Nintendo games go on deep discount on Black Friday. I just see the eighty dollar price as the "want to play it without waiting tax." I am picky about which new games I buy anyway.

Poor Daffney. Not that it's any of my business, but I suspect that she was bipolar one rather than two. I feel for her also being conflicted over family, friends, and partners trying to take care of her and not knowing what to do sometimes. And of course, I feel for her family trying to do the best they could to help someone they love. The last thing I'll say about this is that social media is a net-negative. Not just for the people who are shitty to other human beings because they're safe behind a screen, but also that Daffney was able to log her deteriorating mental and physical health for everyone to see when no one needed to see it who wasn't in her inner circle. I felt literal physical pain while watching Daffney be in pain after that lunatic fucking table spot in TNA. Actually, watching Daffney get destroyed by dangerous spots in TNA in general was fucking terrible. On a lighter note because I need a bit of levity after watching that episode, I think Daffney's Sarah Palin impression is an indicator of her talent and past experience as an actor because it was much better than the typical wrestling impression. It was about eighty percent as good as Tina Fey's Sarah Palin impression, which means that it was pretty great!

And DDP fairly definitively lost that feud, too. Actually, speaking of DDP, my hot take is that he was unfairly lumped in with Hogan, Nash, etc. for being over forty and tired by a lot of the online types. Truthfully, he was young TV-wise and was the only over-forty in the company other than Sting who could still work a dynamic main event. They should have run with him as long-term heel champ in 1999.

This is the million dollar question. I think taking your belt from around your Wranglers and choking a guy with it is at least 77% Southern pro wrestling, but if you disagree, I understand. I don't ever want my wrestling to be metropolitan or sophisticated, though! Since you mentioned it, I'd say that TLC matches are a WWE-ized version of ECW garbage brawls (with all the ladders and table spots played for maximum spectacle), so I place them as firmly Northeastern in style, at least originally. I personally see a big difference between a NYC/Philly-birthed TLC-style garbage brawl (chairs, stairs, tables, stuff pulled from under the ring) and a quintessentially Southern one in my view (stuff like the Tupelo Concession Stand brawl or Nastys vs. Cactus and Payne) where the brawl heads over to some area in the arena that is still viewable without needing a backstage camera or having to be shown on the big screen and they throw punches and toss each other into shit for the bulk of it, which makes something like Knobbs swinging a shovel at Cactus particularly impactful. In a TLC match, a big dive off a ladder or through a table wouldtypically be the impactful spot, not a weapon shot. My read of these differences could be totally off, though. I can't agree more with you. You get insight into regional cultures by watching their shows. On another note, and I should probably grab the book instead of writing this off the cuff, but I also recall Scott Hudson being quoted in Beyond Nitro as saying something about WCW not adapting to reflect the styles that are so popular today, which is a comment one could only make if they completely failed to acknowledge WCW centering high-paced matches with lots of flying via emphasizing the cruisers. Guys from Rey Misterio Jr. to Blitzkrieg influenced a whole generation of wrestlers. Hell, you can draw a line from Chris Kanyon's WCW run right to AEW's existence.

Post-pandemic loneliness + normalization of parasocial relationships + a lot of people being totally unsocialized + fringe people across society having their cultural moment as the center of everything = this type of shit, and I'm surprised that it isn't more common.

I feel like there was a strain of what once was JCP winding through WCW all the way to the end with the exception of when Russo was in charge. The West Texas Rednecks getting over as babyfaces in 1999 would be my prime example, but even something like Dusty and Flair feuding at the death of the company got way over in front of mostly Southern towns and ended with Ric and Jeff Jarrett having their faces smushed up against a donkey's hindquarters. I feel that stuff like Barry Windham and Dean Malenko attacking each other with belts came off very Southern, especially in a chairs-and-tables era of weapon spots. WCW also never did stop touring smaller Southern towns all the way to the end. That stuff is sprinkled throughout, but I think it's still there as part of the promotion's backbone. Your mileage may vary. Russo certainly tried to excise every bit of JCP-ness, though even his feud with Flair was about him being a New Yorker who hated Southern pro wrestling with a passion, so he didn't quite manage it. I feel that WCW in the Nitro Era went back again and again to this idea of heels trying to destroy "tradition," tradition being represented by Flair, Dusty, etc. Obviously that was true of the nWo vs. WCW, but also stuff like Russo/Flair, Bischoff/Flair (to a lesser extent than Russo/Flair), or Arn being convinced to reconstitute the Horsemen by JJ Dillon showing Arn footage of one of Arn's early JCP promos. I don't know where else I typed this, but I feel that Jeff Jarrett and Vince Russo get along so well because Jarrett sees what Russo is doing in 1998 and 1999 as a modernized version of what he knew in Memphis, so Jarrett's execution of some of that stuff feels particularly Southern to me. But I also think that your point about executives seeing it it as "poor and rural" is correct.

Dusty is so thrilled that someone mentioned a character from Bonanza that I almost can't get mad at him.

NASCAR got their FOX deal in 2001 and Shania Twain was a pop country crossover star in the late '90s. I personally think WCW could have thriven in that environment as a culturally Southern-based promotion.

This is no exaggeration! It doesn't go anywhere. The next night on Nitro, the tape doesn't play, and then Hogan gets mad about being screwed and gets suspended after attacking the Giant one too many times.

Starrcade ‘95 notes: Link to go-home Nitro review: http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/9193-smelly-watches-every-nitro-era-nitro-thunder-clash-and-ppv-while-sitting-and-sometimes-maybe-standing/page/2/#findComment-1118379 This whole WCW versus New Japan angle flopped both artistically and business-wise, didn’t it? Oh well, at least we get some interesting inter-promotional matchups at this show. This is the final WCW PPV that feels truly international, I think. Alright, it’s a three-man booth! Tony S. and Bobby Heenan are joined by Dusty Rhodes. AW YEAH As a reminder, one of the big angles is formed around Sting and Luger: Are they friends or not? If I shook a Magic 8-Ball, the response would be REPLY HAZY; TRY AGAIN LATER. Also, Hulk Hogan is on double-secret probation or something. Randy Savage is in possesion of the world title and will have to eventually face Ric Flair in the main event, so it’s a reasonable guess as to what the result of that bout will be! New Japan and WCW wrestlers are competing against one another in a best-of-seven challenge between the two companies. Chris Benoit and Jushin Thunder Liger (w/Sonny Onoo) hook it up in the opener, and I assume this will be a better match than the one they had in 1999 under the purview of Vince Russo’s stupid ass. Proud Iowan Onoo waves a large Japanese flag around, but Liger has been given a miniature Japanese flag to wave in the air as well. Abortions large Japanese flags for some, miniature American Japanese flags for others! Benoit tries to punch through his problems as is his way, so Liger gets on his horses and wins a couple of dropkicks, a baseball slide, and a rolling senton from the apron to the floor. Liger thinks that sequence is pretty cool, but the slack jawed Nashville xenophobes in the crowd have decided to boo him from not being from the United States and instead throw their support behind proud Canadian Benoit. What I love about Liger is how well he emotes with his body and even his face, though he is wearing a mask. He hits a rolling wheel kick and then stands there looking at the booing audience, hands on hips, the lower half of his face reading as though he’s thinking ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?! Benoit summarily tries to make a comeback with power, but Liger reverses a powerbomb into an arm drag and then sends Benoit right back out to the floor. Liger fakes a dive; Dusty decides that the fake dive’s technical terminology is “tipsy-toe…teeterin’ on totterin’” which gets a laugh out of the other two guys sitting at the desk. Back in the ring, Benoit’s litany of strikes seem to work for once; after a lariat, Benoit tries a high-angled crab, basically a Walls of Jericho before Jericho came to WCW. The Horseman can’t get a submission, so he drops Liger’s legs and tries for a pinfall attempt, but he only gets one. Liger tries to win a strikefest with Benoit, fails miserably, and eats a German suplex with a bridge for two. Benoit immediately covers again for two more. Liger trips Benoit as Benoit tries to follow up and immediately locks on a surfboard. Surfboards rule. I feel like if a female wrestler on modern television is looking for a finish, this would be a good one with how bendy the ladies tend to be. You can really get some nasty-looking torque on your opponent; it’d be a great visual. Both men trade counters; Liger reverses a powerbomb and hits a slam, but he’s caught when he goes up and is hit with a superplex that gets a huge pop. I am surprised at how amped Nashville is for the superplex. Benoit’s delayed cover gets only two, however. Benoit is next to go up top, but he wipes out on a diving headbutt attempt. Liger is fired up; he lands a running wheel kick in the corner, then scores a sit-out powerbomb for 2.7 or so. He’s looking to kill Benoit off now; a brainbuster gets another 2.7. Liger complains about the count to the ref, which allows Benoit to come back with a flurry of suplexes and a powerbomb of his own. Benoit goes up and lands the diving headbutt, but – ugh – this eternal Kevin Sullivan/Chris Benoit is in full swing, so Sullivan walks to the ring and distracts Benoit, who turns back around and into a struggle rana from Liger for three. This was an enjoyable watch, though not as good as you’d expect. Still good enough to watch on YouTube, though. New Japan Pro Wrestling 1::0 World Championship Wrestling. In the back, Eddy Guerrero tells Gene Okerlund that he is displeased with Sullivan’s antics and that he’s very honored to represent WCW against Shinjiro Otani later tonight. It’s a mediocre babyface promo that once again reminds us all that Eddy is best as a heel or a Bugs Bunny-style charming dickhead of a babyface. IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion Koji Kanemoto (w/Sonny Onoo) tries to extend New Japan’s lead over WCW in a match against Alex Wright. They have an early feeling-process than ends with a little standoff. Kanemoto out-quicks Wright and basically looks a bit too experienced for his German opponent. Wright has fire, though, and some solid European uppercuts, so he fights back. He’s simply not equipped to beat Koji on extended arm wringer spots. Tony S., after Heenan talks about the New Japan wrestlers coming over to the U.S. early and preparing for this event in the Smoky Mountains: “No one wrestles in the Smoky Mountains anymore!” Random shots fired at Jim Cornette! I often find enjoyment in the work of both Wright and Kanemoto, but this match is very slow to spark into life. Wright sends Koji to the floor, then hits him with a baseball slide. What little energy there is after that spot dissipates when Koji gets back in the ring, circles Wright for a bit, and…Wright goes to a chinlock. This is a dull match. I’ll tell you when something interesting happens. OK, after some heel wandering, stop-start action, and a lukewarm finishing run, the most interesting thing that ends up happening is the finish, which thankfully puts an end to the boredom. Kanemoto catches Wright on a leapover in the corner, drops Wright with a Snake Eyes and wraps Wright in a jackknife pin for three. Wait just a minute here. Snake Eyes? Jackknife?! Did Koji Kanemoto know something about the coming invasion that we didn’t?!?! No, he probably didn't. New Japan Pro Wrestling 2::0 World Championship Wrestling. Gene Okerlund interviews Sonny Onoo. Okerlund says that Onoo is COMING OUT OF HIS SHOES, and I say, Hey, are we not doing PHRASING anymore? Okerlund tells us to call Mark Madden for scoops on the WCW Hotline and then interviews Onoo, who plans to buy both WCW and the whole state of Iowa, both of which are apparently for sale at a cut-rate price! I think WCW running a xenophobic THE JAPANESE ARE BUYING UP AMERICA angle at the end of 1995 is not only generally annoying on its face, it’s also hilariously out of date. Japan was in a deep recession at this point and had been for years. Masahiro Chono (w/Sonny Onoo) versus Lex Luger (w/Jimmy Hart) sounds like a questionable matchup in terms of quality, but it is only the end of 1995, so this match could maybe surprise me. Luger overpowers Chono to start. Press slams rule. Luger is very over here in Nashville, by the way. Chono responds with a boot that sends Luger to the floor. No, this match isn’t going to surprise me. Just gimme a Torture Rack. It’s fine, and watching Luger in 1995 after having just seen him in 2000 and 2001 really drives home how stark his post-peak was as an athlete in the comparison. As for Chono, I think he generally sucks. If I have my story right, he was over enough that they were going to run with him on top in New Japan in a few years from this show, but he got injured. I frankly don’t get it and have never gotten it any time I’ve watched him. Anyway, Chono locks on an STF, but Luger gets to the ropes. Dusty has an excellent call to explain how Luger tucking his chin allowed him to keep Chono from snapping it in. Dusty then gets on Tony S. for calling a mafia kick: “Where do you get all this? The German suplex, the mafia kick. He kicked him with the bottom of a twelve-and-a-half boot right in the middle of the mush. That ain’t got nothin’ to do with the mafia, hell you talkin’ about?” Dusty and Heenan continue to riff (“Sicilian elbow! Yugoslavian neckbreaker!) right into the finish, which is Luger hitting that Sicilian back elbow to counter a Chono dive and racking Chono out of practically nothing for a victory and a huge pop. New Japan Pro Wrestling 2::1 World Championship Wrestling. Gene Okerlund interviews Sting, who backs Johnny B. Badd to win his upcoming match and then re-lives that loss he ate against Kensuke Sasaki which cost him the U.S. Championship. He’s looking to revenge himself with a win tonight. Sting then reasserts that he is friends with Luger, trying to make nice with Savage, and is eternally hating on Ric Flair. He speaks on his other match later tonight: Against Luger and Flair in a Triple Threat to see who will wrestle Randy Savage for the title. It's Kimberly! Doing cartwheels!!!! Look, I’m only a man. A fallible, imperfect man. Anyway, she’s here with Johnny B. Badd. Kimberly has to be one of the worst dancers I’ve ever seen in my life, by the way. I’m going to ignore it, though. Badd is wrestling the always grumpy Masa Saito (w/Sonny Onoo). This is a strange little matchup that I would imagine makes one of my good lists. Onoo does some boilerplate sexism on the mic toward Kimberly; Kimberly responds with some boilerplate racism. Le *sigh*. Saito controls Badd on the mat early; he trips Badd and locks on a Shinonomake, soon transitioning into a chinlock. Badd works up, and Saito shoves him to the mat, which pisses Badd off. They chop the shit out of each other for a minute. It’s rad. I don’t know if this is strictly good, but it’s rad. Saito decides to just punch Badd in the bridge of the nose and stop all that nonsense. Saito mauls Badd against the ropes, raking his face and yanking his nostrils; Onoo gets involved with a flagpole choke when the ref backs Saito off. A Saito back suplex gets two, and a follow-up lariat gets two more. More heel choke spots ensue; Saito lands a side Russian that gets Tony’s commentary partners once again riffing on his knowledge of geography-based wrestling move names. Badd makes a comeback with a double axe and a diving sunset flip for two. Badd opens up with left and right hooks, scores a vertical suplex…and only gets one. Sonny Onoo hops onto the apron and distracts Badd, who tangles with him. Saito comes over and tosses Bad over the top and to the floor, eating a DQ loss in the process. Kimberly gets in the ring and confronts Saito, who stalks her until Badd makes it back in the ring for the save; Badd eventually goes completely uncaught on a slingshot senton to the floor. Why book this match if you don’t want either guy to take a pinfall or submission? This wasn’t good enough to make a good list, but it was certainly interesting. New Japan Pro Wrestling 2::2 World Championship Wrestling. Promo: SuperBrawl ’96 is the next PPV in the order, though my next review of a big show will be for the January 1996 Clash of the Champions (XXXII, if you’re counting). Jimmy Hart and Lex Luger exude confidence about Luger’s chances to win his Triple Threat match later tonight and then to finish off Randy Savage once and for all as the reward for winning said match. Hart also plays down Kevin Sullivan causing Chris Benoit to lose the first match in the WCW/New Japan challenge. Luger shocks Okerlund by saying that he’ll go to the ring for the Triple Threat by himself; Hart is cool with being left in the back because he sees long-term potential in this relationship. It’s not just a situationship to him! That’s an accurate updated and modern representation of what he actually says about his relationship with Luger. Here comes Sonny Onoo once again, this time with Shinjiro Otani. Otani, if you’ll recall, is booked against Eddy Guerrero in the fifth match of seven between WCW and NJPW. One thing that I like about the modern wrestling era is that if AEW ran this same best-of-seven on a PPV against New Japan, there wouldn’t be all these weird xenophobic elements. The angle would just be focused on the spirit of competition and pride in the company rather than a country. Otani works the arm to start, using Eddy’s hair for leverage and moving quite a bit to work his holds. Eddy slips out of the back after Otani overleverages himself. Otani goes for the leg next, but Eddy counters with an enziguri. This is an enjoyable opening sequence built around mat wrestling and counters and counters to counters. The desk puts over Otani needing to ground Eddy to keep the advantage, and lo and behold, Eddy gets up to his feet and immediately sends Otani out to the floor with a headscissors. Otani gets back in the ring and cagily circles Eddy, who feints and then lands a standing dropkick, followed by a tope con hilo and a Boston Crab. That last move doesn’t earn a submission, so Eddy figures Why not knock this dude out instead? and lands a nasty powerbomb that, alas, does not knock Otani out. Eddy decides to multiple Otani’s pain by hitting a brainbuster, but Otani’s boot is in the ropes when Eddy covers. Eddy looks positively ascendant, but he misses on a corner charge as Otani flips himself over the top rope. Otani lands a springboard dropkick on a staggered Eddy from the apron; then, he follows Eddy outside with a springboard crossbody. Back in the ring, Otani shoots Eddy in and nails Eddy with a dropkick, but he goes for chokes instead of covering, which Heenan and Dusty both chide him for. Heenan, to Dusty: “If you’re Eddy Guerrero, what are you thinking right now?” Dusty: “I’m thinkin’ I lost a lot of weight, brother.” Heenan being on the receiving end of the goofy dad-level jokes that he gives out is pretty funny! Dusty does offer up legit suggestions about what he’d do in Otani’s place (land a high impact move , cover him and see if you got him since he's on a lot of accumulated damage). Instead of doing what Dusty advises, Otani gives Eddy room to recover by ineffectually locking him in holds; Eddy side suplexes his way out of trouble, but is slow to cover and only earns two of the requisite three slaps of the mat from the ref. Eddy tries to follow up but he’s still a bit woozy; Otani flips behind Eddy on a vertical suplex attempt with such suddenness and snaps off a German suplex with such authority that I think it should have been the finish. It only earns Otani two, however. Otani loves his springboards; he hits a springboard wheel kick. Then again, maybe he needs the springboard part to make his aerial moves land as he goes up for a regular top rope move and gets caught in no-man’s-land with a rana for two. Now, it’s Eddy’s turn to come close to victory. He lands a sit-out crucifix powerbomb for two and tries to follow up with another power move when Otani rolls through and tries an ankle lock that Eddy just gets to the ropes on. After the ref breaks it, Otani charges Eddy, who ducks. Otani goes to the floor, and Eddy follows, landing a springboard crossbody of his own. Eddy rolls Otani into the ring and tries to finish him off, but Otani reverses a vertical suplex. Otani lands another springboard move – this time a springboard missile dropkick that Eddy forward bumps for with authority – then attempts a full nelson. OK, so the finishing sequence is as nice as this whole match has been. Eddy back elbows his way out of the full nelson, then runs to the ropes and leaps. Otani pops him up for a powerbomb, but Eddy counters with a rana that Otani rolls through, then Eddy rolls through, then finally Otani rolls through again for three. That was easily the best match on this card so far. Very good bout. New Japan Pro Wrestling 3::2 World Championship Wrestling. Will Gene Okerlund and Randy Savage share another contentious interview segment on PPV? No. Savage is too focused on Tenzan to even think about Okerlund’s facial hair or defending his world title later in the night. He quotes Buzz Lightyear in the process. Twice. He also exhorts Sting to help him seal the victory for WCW. Hiroyoshi Tenzan (w/Sonny Onoo, of course) wrestles Randy Savage in match six of this WCW/NJPW challenge. OK, I think Ric Flair being too big a heel to bpther defending WCW works perfectly; he’s the only guy who doesn’t wrestle a match before the Triple Threat and only has to wrestle two matches to win the big gold belt, same as Savage does. This match is a Savage special. He gets beaten up a lot, then makes a comeback. Tenzan’s heel control is generally dull. I love Randy Savage, but in 1995, if he’s not wrestling a main event bout on PPV, you know what you’re getting from him. This is a match much like his TV matches. I mean, what he’s doing works – he gets to be the injured fighting champion who perseveres and his opponent gets shine from kicking him around for a bit – but there’s not much to say about that formula as one watches it. Savage reverses a vertical suplex after a struggle, drops Tenzan stomach-first on the top rope, then goes up and launches a Savage Elbow for three. The desk didn’t get that Savage dropped Tenzan over the top rope on purpose and instead claimed Savage dropped Tenzan on account of his arm being injured. I don't blame them beacuse the struggle over the vertical suplex was a bit visually messy. New Japan Pro Wrestling 3::3 World Championship Wrestling. Bobby Heenan does a physical comedy routine in which, distraught that it’s all coming down to match number seven, he knocks his chair over and gets it caught up in his microphone cords; he struggles to get his chair free, but he only makes things worse. It legitimately cracks Tony S. up. Gene Okerlund assures us that the WWF is gigafucked, and if you want to know more about it, maybe spend some money on the WCW hotline, won’t ya? He then turns his attention to an interview of Ric Flair, who looks completely fresh and pretty relaxed! For him, I mean. He doesn’t have to worry about defending WCW’s honor, so he can totally focus on winning the world title from Savage, which is a thing that he is very good at doing! WCW United States Champion Kensuke Sasaki (w/that damn Sonny Onoo) plans to win a gold-ish cup for New Japan just like he won WCW gold. Not on Sting’s watch, though! Sasaki and Sting had a decent match in Japan for that title, so I expect something generally enjoyable out of them at the least. Sasaki jumps Sting with many fists and a few feet and also a single choke. This commentary team of Tony S., Heenan, and Dusty is my favorite in WCW history; they balance jokes with good insight really nicely. Sting lands an early Stinger Splash, then eats a bit of Sasaki offense and dropkicks Sasaki to the floor. That’s what you get for your mock OWWWWWWWWW, Sasaki! Sting is very energetic, which is good! He energetically runs himself into a powerslam, which is bad! Unless you’re a backer of New Japan, I suppose. This match isn’t as good as their U.S. title match. Sting diving around and working like a slightly cocky American is way more fun than Sting working up from underneath with Sasaki in extended heel control. Sasaki shows the height of heel hubris by locking Sting in a Scorpion Death Lock. As Dusty says, Sting knows how to get out of this hold since he mastered it. Then again, Sting’s way of breaking it is just being strong as fuck and powering out of it with his legs and lower back. Sasaki is unsettled after failing to beat the Stinger with Sting’s own hold; he never quite gets back on track. Sting slips out of the back of a Sasaki slam attempt and is annihilated in short order by a series of explosive Sting offensive moves. Sasaki tries to crawl toward the ropes when Sting locks on a Scorpion, but Sting drags him right back to the center of the ring and uncles him ([tm] Dusty Rhodes). The rest of the WCW competitors in the competition hit the ring to celebrate with the Stinger. New Japan Pro Wrestling 3::4 World Championship Wrestling; World Championship Wrestling are World Cup of Wrestling winners. Gene Okerlund enters the ring to interview the winners; Sting and Luger grab the cup on both sides and hoist it in the air. AEW and New Japan should bring this competition back for one of AEW’s big PPVs, probably. As a note, Kensuke Sasaki kinda sorta lost twice tonight. He defended the WCW United States Championship against the One Man Gang in a post-main-event dark match in which OMG hit a splash, but only got two even though the bell rang and OMG was awarded the title. The match was re-started and continued to a finish in which Sasaki won, but that part wasn’t shown on television. What was shown was OMG getting the pinfall and being awarded the title. That is third in the chain of those weird Sting > Sasaki > OMG > Konnan title exchanges that happened completely off Nitro or PPV. The link to the edited WCWSN segment that shows the Sasaki/OMG TV finish is here if you are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6uxyZw-UTA Hype video: Sting, Lex Luger, and Ric Flair will face off to get an immediate shot at Randy Savage’s WCW World Heavyweight Championship. This was a pretty good angle outside of Hulk Hogan needing to be kept strong or whatever. Alright, Lex Luger walks to the ring alone; he is soon followed by Ric Flair and Sting. I don’t get the tag rule being added to this match. These types of matches already have a lid on them in terms of quality, and the tag rule being in effect is absolutely no help. Oh man, I don’t like this. Sting and Flair start with Luger outside the ring. Sting blows away Flair to start, but I think without all three men in the ring, I know that what’s happening now doesn’t mean a whole lot. The finish of this type of multi-man match is built around who can get the last move in while the third opponent is incapacitated. Rarely, if ever, does any of the early work play into that type of finish. How is ECW still the only company to get this type of match layout right? It’s been three decades! Dusty is pushing an eventual Sting/Luger in-ring faceoff on commentary, and I do get that this is a draw as part of this match. I just don’t think it’s enough of a draw to justify the match layout. OK, I’ll let it go. Sting and Flair do their extended routine over the first three or five minutes of the match. Flair sidesteps a dropkick and tags Luger in taunts Luger before going back to attacking Sting. Tony S. reminds us that the last time Sting and Flair hooked it up at Starrcade, Flair was wrestling under the guise of the Black Scorpion. Flair launches Sting over the top rope. This is really boilerplate stuff. Let me tell you when things pick up. Luger tries to break up a Sting pinfall attempt, which Sting is aggy about even though only one guy can win; Flair sneaks up behind Sting and pushes him into Luger, who takes it as a tag. Flair’s on his bicycle from Luger now and has to land a knee in Luger’s balls to get any control. The thing is that Luger works like a babyface, so now Flair is doing half the spots he just did with Sting except with Luger in Sting’s place. Flair goes at Luger’s knee to take control; he even lands a weak chair shot to Luger’s knee when ref Nick Patrick is in an intense confrontation with Sting over on the apron. This match is so long, man, it won’t end. Flair locks Luger in a Figure Four, uses the ropes for leverage, wakes Luger up with disrespectful slaps, gets it turned over, etc. Team Package continues to pre-explode. FINISH PRE-EXPLODING, DAMMIT. This crowd is bored, too. It’s not just me! Flair finally tags Sting in so we can get Sting versus Luger. Sting and Luger stare longingly at one another. They stare and they stare. They shake hands. The crowd hoots their disapproval. Luger tells ‘em OH, SHUT UPPPPP. After a few more minutes…days…hours?!...they collar-and-elbow. They break it up in the corner. They do it again. They break it up in the corner. Eventually, Sting gets the upper hand, and Luger calls for time out in the corner. I have some suggestions for this show’s layout because there are still twenty-six minutes to go for the rest of this match and the main event match. Why not put a TV title defense on this card, for one? I dream of this match entering its finishing run. There’s a short floor brawl during which Sting takes control. The Stinger brings it back into the ring with a crossbody that gets a two count, but he eats knees on a Vader Bomb. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy did they structure this bout as three ten-minute long singles matches? Even if you’re new to formatting this match type like WCW creative is, this seems like the least reasonable way to structure one of these bouts. Hark! Is that mayhaps a finishing run? Sting hits one Stinger Splash, but whiffs on a second. Luger hoists Sting upon his shoulders, but he swings Sting around and Sting’s boot catches the ref in the mush. Flair hops in the ring, takes out Luger’s knee, and then tosses Sting to the floor before stepping onto the apron and asking Nick Patrick to get up and – oh wow – count both men out. Sting almost makes it back at nine, but Luger grabs him before he can get into the ring. This finish SUCKED. This match was just barely more boring than bad, but that finish was some complete fucking copout nonsense that tipped the scales, and no, calling Flair the dirtiest player in the game doesn’t make it better even if you could at least argue that it’s a logical way for Flair to sneak-thief a victory. Fuck this match. You know what? This was so bad that it was actually the Absolute Dirt Worst. Fuck this match twice. Ric Flair remains in the ring as Sting cuts a look at a fallen Luger at ringside. Jimmy Hart joins Ric Flair in the ring and cuts a short-term managerial deal with him before this upcoming match between Flair and Randy Savage for the big gold belt. Michael Buffer’s Ring Announcing Quality Control: This guy called the World War 3 battle royal the greatest battle royal of all-time, which is too much for me even considering the levels of bullshit that pro wrestling promotion constantly aspires to reach. But no, seriously, the guy did fine. I feel bad about wanting a Randy Savage match to end, but this is yet another 1995 PPV card that is bafflingly ordered. Paul Orndorff walks out here in a neck brace, having been put out by the Horsemen on Nitro recently (Show #15). Savage usually likes to eschew any babyface shine segment and get beaten the hell up for the whole match; Flair likes to do the same sequence of heel stooge spots over and over. Whose will is imposed in this match? Mostly Savage’s, though Savage does indulge in a tiny shine segment before he eats a fist on a dive. Orndorff is walked away from ringside while Savage takes a beating against the railing. Jimmy Hart throws a free kick at Savage, who ends up in a hammerlock back in the ring. Savage makes a comeback that is aborted when Flair locks on a sleeper. Savage drops out of it, then blocks a Flair right and lands one of his own; he covers for two. Savage earns another near fall after a pair of lariats, then signals for a Savage Elbow. Jimmy Hart gets involved, draws the ref’s attention, and tosses Flair his megaphone. Savage intercepts it and clobbers Flair with it, but Hart is still drawing the ref. Flair, who has bladed, is food for a Savage Elbow that gets a visual three count. Pillman and Benoit try to intervene and are unsuccessful, but Arn Anderson scores a punch with a loaded fist that sends Savage to dreamland like his name was Kirby; Flair covers for three. This sucked. This show sucked, honestly. Even Benoit/Liger was merely solid when it could have been great. Guerrero/Otani was must-see television, though. Why didn’t this show wedge a TV title match in between the Triple Threat and the main event? As a bonus, a ten-minute TV title match shaves ten minutes off that awful Triple Threat. Furthermore, why didn’t every other promotion work their Triple Threats like ECW did? Anyway, this was a terrible Starrcade, which is the norm for Starrcade in the Nitro Era rather than an unfortunate blip. Starrcade ’96 being really good is the blip. That’s a darn shame! Link to follow-up Nitro review: http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/9193-smelly-watches-every-nitro-era-nitro-thunder-clash-and-ppv-while-sitting-and-sometimes-maybe-standing/page/2/#findComment-1121831

OK, this is going to be a longer post, for which I apologize. Beyond Nitro is worth reading, but it's not an essential book. A chunk of it discusses broadly the common modern pro wrestling ideas that people smarter than Guy Evans have already discussed ad nauseam; a lot of this "smark relationship with wrestling/wrestler psychology 101 for the post-kayfabe millennium" stuff has been written about by DVDVR/PWO types in far more interesting ways to the point that I'd honestly rather read a book full of the best posts on those topics over the past near-three-decades than read this stuff again from Evans. This book is also part of the attempt by Eric Bischoff and his allies (Conrad Thompson, the producers of DSotR, and Evans himself) to burnish Bischoff's wrestling legacy, which is tiresome at this point. I get it, Bischoff wants to claim all victories for himself and place any losses on the heads of the dysfunction at Turner/TW. Evans spends a lot of time in the middle of the book doing this mind-numbing walkthrough of accounting practices so that the "true believers" who think that WCW actually lost money in 1999 - 2001 can be shown up as FOOLS. And yes, he uses the phrase "true believers" because he's spent too much time talking to Bischoff. (This is not to say that his argument doesn't have merit! I don't think, based on the evidence, that there's any way to tell exactly how much WCW actually made or lost. All we have to look at that can hint toward anything concrete is WCW's nosediving attendance and PPV buyrates, something that Evans simply ignores when trying to discuss how we perceive late-stage WCW's viability). In some ways, this book is a credit to Bischoff in that while he comes off as a scummy used car salesman to me, were he in that business, he would have sold a lot of lemons to people like Guy Evans. He's a heck of a salesman and pretty much everyone quoted in the book loves him. Broadly, the book advances three major arguments: Nothing bad that happened in WCW was really Eric Bischoff's fault if you do a bit of research on the topic WCW was a dead promotion walking almost from the point that Turner acquired it Turner and Time Warner wasted the great work of a lot of talented individuals because it was uncaring toward WCW or simply an inept parent company (there are shades of "If only Ted Turner really knew, he'd have fixed it" in this argument). What makes this worth reading are some of the stories and uncovered documents that Evans uses since, admittedly, he has done the research. I don't agree with his conclusions, but he has done a journalism, so that's neat. People tell their stories, and those stories are compelling even though they are clearly structured in a way so that Evans can use them to advance his broad arguments. That's fine, though. There is value in Keith Mitchell telling stories from his time in wrestling or in a detailed look at TNN's pre-ECW, pre-WWF foray into mashing up pro wrestling with their other content by talking to Ralph Shaheen (NASCAR announcer, former host of Motocross Madness along with Dusty EFFIN' Rhodes) I think it's also worth reading for the accounting info or the negotiation info w/r/t the sale of some of WCW's assets to the WWF. My personal issue is that Zellner (who is quoted multiple times in the chapter that enflamed my passions the most) and Bixenspan have done a more interesting job of presenting evidence that Brad Siegel always wanted to sell to Vince and used Stu Snyder as his go-between. Making this clear has been an Eric Bischoff initiative over the past couple of years - he has a conversation on 83 Weeks with Snyder about this and Who Killed WCW grills Siegel on this matter - but since I already had a handle on all that, the reinforcement of it all didn't do much for me. I do think there is value in Evans making a convincing argument that, based on the evidence, AOLTW and the WWF structured their sale so that AOLTW got a nice tax writeoff for keeping the losses from WCW/Universal Wrestling Corporation while handing the WWF the assets for a song in a mutually beneficial arrangement, but other than that, there isn't much else here that I haven't already heard from other researchers. I will say that there is a chapter that riled me way the hell up. The argument it posits is as such: WCW could never have sustained growth as a Southern wrestling brand because Southern wrestling could never go mainstream. Despite the fact that earlier in the book, Evans talked to Ralph Shaheen, who commentates NASCAR, which is a distinctly Southern brand that went mainstream, Evans pushes this narrative. Look, we live in a post-OutKast world. Ludacris is in mainstream movies. Country music is ubiquitous on the airwaves. Popeyes and Zaxbys and Chick-Fil-A and other Southern fast food brands are clamored for nationwide. Dudes in small-town Oregon and Michigan hang Confederate flags from their trucks. I have no idea why we're pretending that Southern culture doesn't travel outside of the South. On this note, I turn it over to Scott Hudson, who is quoted in this book as saying one of the dumber comments that I've come across: "There was no national appetite for 'southern style' wrestling as a major motion picture, sitcom, or wrestling product much the same way that there is no national interest in pickled eggs, sweet tea, and grits." Motherfucker, grits were an American hipster's "exotic" breakfast choice in 2009! Everyone loves sweet tea! What the fuck are you talking about?! (In fairness, he might be right about pickled eggs, but half the Southerners I know don't love those, either.) This chapter on Southern wrestling has some interesting ideas which I will absolutely be pursuing when I'm an old retired man writing his thesis to earn a post-grad anthropological degree. Most of these ideas are about the historical-cultural elements of Southern wrestling in ways that, again, DVDVR posters have talked about before and more interestingly. But the core thesis falls apart because it rests on this idea that there is something about Southern wrestling that doesn't translate in a way that either the Northeastern WWF style does or that West Coast style - I'm thinking specifically Reseda - that permeates a lot of what pro wrestlers are doing today. It fails to note that, for example: Vince McMahon had the largest market in the world from which to expand. Strangely, the book notes that the South (and its Midwestern neighbors like OK and MO) had about as many territories as the rest of the country combined, yet it fails to conjecture how Vince McMahon being able to leverage the money made from NYC/Philly/Boston/Toronto might be the reason that he found it easier to move the WWF style into other territories as compared to the Southern territories not being able to draw on as much money from their towns. It's odd. All the ingredients for this argument are touched upon in the chapter itself. Southern wrestling promotions fed small towns on their loops; Vince wanted to only do bigger cities. Southern wrestling promotions covered less area and fed less affluent media markets than Vince did. Yet somehow, the conclusion is that something is wrong with the Southern wrestling product or formula and not simply that Vince had more money and a stronger base of operations from which to expand. Baffling. Or that... ...the primary issue with booking Southern wrestling to a wider base, looking at WCW from an artistic standpoint, is that Southern wrestling bookers can be just as provincial as Vince was in the WWF. Ole Anderson having concrete ideas about booking wrestling that are two decades old is a fault in Ole, not a fault in the style of wrestling! The same goes for Bill Watts or whomever you want to talk about (yeah, I love 1992 WCW, but we've talked about Watts's shortcomings as a booker in the '90s more than enough). I think the one thing this book, a poor attempt at helping Eric Bischoff run as a WCW executive look better in hindsight, doesn't do enough of is giving Eric Bischoff credit for being the head showrunner during a period where WCW was able to update their show's look and feel, keep some of the Southern elements, and to sell them to the Midwest especially. There is a reason that, for example, the West Texas Rednecks got over as a midcard stable in the Midwest where WCW spent a ton of time touring in 1999. Bischoff low-key discovered a bit of a formula that he coudn't figure out how to build upon which basically helped him make inroads into the Midwest and the Rocky Mountain States, and a lot of that stuff that worked was stuff that worked in the South alongside the updating of WCW to look like a modern wrestling show and the nWo angle (though even the nWo angle was about the heels led by a bunch of guys from "up North" destroying "tradition"). Also, Evans spends two long chapters talking about how much Vince Russo sucks, including a whole run-down of his TNA stints. Unnecessary stuff, but Evans wants to make sure you know that Russo is the failed creative mind in the Bischoff/Russo pairing, not Bischoff! Of course, the idea that both of them are failed creative minds is never considered. Evans notes that Bischoff/Hogan-era TNA set TNA's slow-but-steady ratings growth back quite a lot, but somehow, Bisch never really comes in for much criticism in that regard. Instead, we're focused on Russo being a head case. All this is to say that I did enjoy the stories and some of the interesting documents in this book. But man, this could have been half the size and ditched the primary goal to paint Eric Bischoff as just a talented guy doing the best he could to help make WCW profitable against all odds. Though in fairness, I have been thinking about, reading about, and watching WCW over the last few years way the hell more than most people, so if you haven't done much of that, this book will also probably have more value add for you than it did for me.

With this collection, Capcom has re-published almost all of its Dreamcast 2D and 3D figher releases, which is great. The only stuff missing is either licensed (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Spawn: In the Demon's Hand, Heavy Metal Geomatrix) or is Tech Romancer, by my count. One great thing about Sega consoles being better at 2D is that they always got the superior home releases of Capcom's 2D Fighters both on Saturn and Dreamcast.

Nintendo sent a "you're still in the queue" email to me. The internet sleuths seem to think that the block of time during which I signed up is next for invites, so hopefully they'll send me one next week, even though I guess Nintendo's also preparing to flood the stores with consoles on opening day. I'm sanguine about getting one at launch.

Gotta pick up Capcom Fighting Collection 2 from the store today. I guess I can put away my Dreamcast disc versions of the games on this collection.

Yep. According to Eric Bischoff, who I don't think has a reason to lie about this, Turner would usually quickly settle (though not with the racial discrimination lawsuit filed toward its end-of-life). He also said that Heyman would threaten WCW/Turner with lawsuits for the smallest things - also something I don't think he's lying about - and that Turner eventually found it easier to just not sign the guy Heyman was claiming rights to, pay him off, of whatever would make him go away that was ultimately negligible cost for WCW/Turner. So yeah, Heyman fucked Sabu out of what I think was reported as a two-year guaranteed deal because Turner didn't see the point in provoking litigation (especially as they were trying to offload the company anyway).

And in 2000, which I think is what Technico is talking about, correct me if I'm wrong. I think Sabu was having a pay dispute with Heyman and claimed he was free of his contract because Heyman breached it by not paying him for his work in a certain amount of time.

I was expecting to be more into AJ Styles's short WCW endgame run than anyone else's, but yeah, Jett/Money was a ton of fun over those last couple weeks of shows. Does Matt Borne's Doink run in WWF '93 count, or was it too long? The same question goes for Brad Armstrong's '85 Mid-South run.

IMO Sabo vs. Disco Inferno in 1995 WCW is sublime. Sabu had a top-three "cup of coffee" run of all time in '95 WCW.

I sense that I already know the answer to this question, but I'll ask anyway: How much Detroit is preserved on tape?

That'll be a great source for in a couple decades when I retire and spend my time getting a post-grad degree in sociology or anthropology because I'll need it to help write my pro-wrestling focused thesis.

World War 3 ‘95 notes: Link to go-home Nitro review: http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/9193-smelly-watches-every-nitro-era-nitro-thunder-clash-and-ppv-while-sitting-and-sometimes-maybe-standing/#findComment-1112547 It’s time for the Royal Rumble except somewhat worse! As a quick reminder, the big gold belt is on the line in the World War 3 match because it was held up as a result of the ending of Halloween Havoc’s main event. Hype video to open the show: If I was mind-wiped and was not able to remember actually seeing one of these WW3 battle royals, I’d be pretty excited by the concept. Tony S. and Bobby Heenan once again make up our commentary team, which is fine, but everything’s better with Dusty Rhodes! Tony S. picks Hogan to claim the title; Heenan splits his pick between Randy Savage and the Giant. We’ve got other matches, including a return match from the previous month between Lex Luger and Randy Savage and a Kensuke Sasaki U.S. Championship defense. Silly-ass promo: We cut to Gene Okerlund, who stands with Randy Savage, Sting, and that goof Hulk Hogan. Hogan tears off his black clothing – the subtext is pretty amazing here – and goes back to the red-and-yellow clothing that marks his complete uselessness as a WCW talent. Then, he burns a representation of the Observer because Dave Meltzer prints whatever the hell anyone tells him without actually checking things with multiple sources. Hogan is like MELTZER SAID THAT SAVAGE WAS HURT AND THAT THE GIANT WOULD WIN THE BIG GOLD BELT TONIGHT, BUT SAVAGE IS PHYSICALLY FUNCTIONAL BY THE STANDARDS OF A PRO WRESTLER’S TYPICAL HEALTH AND ALSO WE CHANGED THE FINISH, SO THERE, BROTHER. This was a strange promo. I don’t think anyone at the time thought that Hogan dressing in black and losing his mustache was meaningful or interesting, much less upon rewatch three decades later. They also probably didn't read the sheets! Recap of DDP and Kimberly having relationship issues, part one: Diamond Dallas Page has abused Kimberly one too many times; Kimberly tells him that she’s putting herself up as a prize against Johnny B. Badd’s TV title because she’s feelin’ really unappreciated, he’s takin’ her love for granted, baby, and she doesn’t know how much more she can take from him. She tells Page that he wouldn’t recognize a “10” if it was staring him in the face. Page looks baffled. You could at least bring her breakfast in bed once or twice, you dunce! For the second straight PPV, Diamond Dallas Page (w/Kimberly) and Johnny B. Badd open the show in a contest for the WCW World Television Championship. This time, Kimberly’s got an escape route out of her managerial contract with her unappreciative husband as well since her managerial services are also on the line this month. Page and Badd tangle early; after Page slaps Badd on a break in the corner, they hook up again and tumble to the floor, where things go poorly for Page. He retreats back into the ring and jumps Badd upon re-entry, but Badd scores two on a crossbody and then two more on a Samoan drop. I like the pace here, but Badd goes right into a headlock. I’m a Marc Mero truther. I think he’s a ton of fun and legitimately became a good worker, but he relies on working spots out of headlocks and arm wringers a bit too much. It’s not like he just sits there or anything, and when he’s got a good series of spots (as with the arm wringer/hair pull spots from his DDP match at Havoc ’95), I dig what he’s doing. However, he’s not consistent with being creative out of those spots. They in fact transition from headlocks to arm wringers and do hair pulling spots again, but at lower effectiveness than the previous month (though Page yelling SHUT UP, YOU BIMBO at a Badd fan who is insistently rooting him on from her spot in the crowd was pretty great). Badd gets to his feet and eventually sends Page to the floor before slingshot crossbodying him. DDP’s in trouble, so he gets out of a jam the way a true scumbag would: He sacrifices Kimberly, shoving her right into Badd to spark a transition back into control. The match heads back to the ring, where Page lands a back suplex and then kills a Badd counter-headscissors attempt with a slam. DDP calls for a “10,” but Kim’s still upset about the whole incident where Page shoved her into Badd and won’t give him one. Page in heel control is excellent television, which I think is maybe so obvious that I didn’t even need to write it. I actually think this control segment could have been longer, as we only get a couple of creative and well-timed cutoffs before Badd dives out of the way of a Page corner charge. Page posts himself and then whiffs on a follow-up kick besides. Page does land a right hand, but he blindly ducks down after whipping Badd to the ropes and gets kicked, all of which culminates in a proper babyface comeback. Said comeback is very good, especially Badd avoiding Page’s discus lariat and hitting a nice one of his own. He calls for the “10” after that one and gets a “10+,” which looks more like an ESRB rating than a score, but whatever. Badd follows up with 2.9 off a sit-out powerbomb; the crowd is audibky displeased with the cadence of Nick Patrick’s count and seems to wordlessly vocalize that it should have been slightly swifter. DDP manages to back elbow his way out of trouble; his leveraged pinfall attempt only gets two, and he follows up a tilt-a-whirl side slam with a casual cover that almost gets him counter-backslid for three. Alas, Badd’s reversal only gets two, and Page is up and stomping away at Badd. He shoots Badd in once more and eats a counter headscissors; Badd quickly tries to slingshot splash Page to finish him off (I don’t remember this signature move being called the Badd Mood, but Tony S. names it as such both here and back at Havoc); Page gets knees up, though. A Page struggle gutbuster gets two, and Page manages to stop Badd from gaining anything from a leap behind on a DDP powerbomb attempt by elbowing him. He doesn’t, however, stop Badd from reversing his Tombstone attempt, though Badd only scores a two count after landing it. No matter, though! Badd throws a Kiss That Don’t Miss, knocks Page to the floor, and follows with a seated senton on a wobbling Page for two; he tosses Page back into the ring and follows that up with a slingshot legdrop that earns a three count. That was quite the onslaught of offense to finish Page off there! Kim looks a bit shocked by the result, but she ends up hugging the champ. It gets a surprisingly loud pop out of the crowd, who I think was into these two as an on-screen couple based on some of the reactions they got here and that they got on those Nitros in the aftermath. This match wasn’t as good as the Havoc match, but it was good enough to add to a playlist. Gene Okerlund shills the hotline (The WWF steroid scandal is going to flare back up!) before interviewing Badd and Kim as they walk back up the aisle. Badd respects women, and you should too, kids at home! He even tells Kim that he’s glad to let her go do something else if she prefers because he’s not holding a woman to a contract. Kim appreciates the support, and maybe DDP should have been paying attention here considering what happens with those crazy kids in 2000. Badd plans to add another belt – the biggest, most gold-colored one - to his collection later tonight in the main event. Hacksaw Jim Duggan jumps Big Bubba Rogers in the aisle and batters him with taped fists to start their Taped Fist Match. What I get a kick out of is that he’s also brought the 2x4 with him; it is strapped around his neck with a piece of rope. He plans to use the board on Bubba, who begs off, and you know what Bubba throws nice punches and this match is fine so far. In fact, both men throw a number of punches and engage in lots of ringside brawling. They go from ring to ring. There’s a fun little creative spot where Hacksaw wedges Bubba’s neck between two posts from separate rings and then dislodges him with a punch. At the point that Duggan whiffs on a double axe from the apron to the floor and eats guardrail, I’m generally okay with this bout. It’s not what I typically want to see, but the fans seem to like it, and it’s pretty well worked for what it is. I usually prefer Bubba to Hacksaw, but Hacksaw’s opening shine segment was pretty energetic, and I sorta dug it. When Hacksaw Duggan decides not to simply go through the motions and stick to his tired routine, and when he doesn't insist on taking 70%+ percent of every match he's in, he can be pretty entertaining. At various points in 2000 and 2001, he was a net positive on WCW television, which I think supports my current position on him. Bubba tapes Duggan’s left wrist to the rope, and then they do a spot that looks terrible where Bubba bounces off the ropes and runs headfirst into Duggan’s outstretched right fist. I get what they were going for there, but it looked awful. Duggan manages to backdrop a charging Bubba to the floor as well; the ref unties Hacksaw, and he goes back to work on Bubba. Duggan lands a slam and a lariat, but, aw man, VK Wallstreet walks to ringside holding a chain. Duggan manages to cut Wallstreet off with a 2x4 to the gut, but Wallstreet manages to fling the chain to Bubba, who wraps it around his fist and tees off on Hacksaw’s forehead. That keeps Duggan down for a ten count and earns Bubba Rogers the knockout victory. I wouldn’t quite call this good, but it was easily watchable and had a couple of entertaining spots. Bubba gets the last entertaining spot of the night in, exiting the ring near the commentary table and yelling TELL ‘EM HOW GREAT I AM, BOBBY before stumbling away victoriously. It's back to Gene Okerlund, who interviews Ric Flair. Flair is cavalier about his matchup with the enraged Sting, at least if you ask me. A significant contingent within the Norfolk crowd thinks that Ric Flair kinda rules. Flair is bullish on his chances of winning the big gold belt in the big three-ring battle royal later tonight. A night before they get on my good list because of a Nitro match, Mike Tenay joins the commentary desk to help call Cutie Suzuki and Mayumi Ozaki vs. Bull Nakano and Akira Hokuto (w/Sonny Onoo). The thing I like about Nakano and Hokuto is that they are very mean bullies in the ring. For example, Hokuto deliberately walks Ozaki to the ropes while wrapping her in an abdominal stretch and holds Ozaki’s hand out as near to Suzuki as she can before slapping down Suzuki’s hand herself like the complete dick that she is. The heels beat the crap out of Ozaki, who manages to DDT her way out of trouble and hit a hot tag to Suzuki. Maybe the biggest pop in this match happens when Suzuki manages a half-crab on Hokuto, and when Nakano tries to break that up, Ozaki cuts her off and also half-crabs her. Norfolk was like WHOA, DUAL HALF-CRAB SPOTS RULE, and they’re not wrong! The next time that Suzuki wraps a half-crab on Hokuto, Bull just lariats her off the move. Suzuki and Ozaki get their wires crossed on a team-up attack and hit one another; Bull lands a powerbomb on Suzuki, but whiffs on a moonsault and eats a series of top-rope double stomps, the last of which gets two for Suzuki. The babyfaces are feeling their oats and try a double vertical suplex on Nakano, who blocks and reverses that. A quick tag from Bull to Hokuto bears no fruit, as Hokuto whiffs on her dive. The babyfaces dispatch of Bull for a brief moment and set Hokuto up for a double superplex, but Nakano recovers and drags them from their perches on the second rope by their hair. Bull holds on and stands them up for a Hokuto top-rope crossbody that lands. The heels both shoot the babyfaces into the ropes, and the babyfaces reverse into stereo ranas before landing stereo dives. Ref Pee-Wee Anderson finally clears the illegal women out of the ring; Ozaki and Hokuto are the legal women. They trade nasty suplexes. First, Ozaki hits a bridging half-nelson suplex for two, and right after that, Hokuto dumps Ozaki high on her neck with a German suplex. Nakano tags back in after that and tries to take out both women, who duck her clothesline, but don’t duck Hokuto’s second-rope missile dropkick that takes them both out. They go to the floor, where Nakano holds them in place for Hokuto’s somersault senton from the top. Geez, man, the heels are unloading. Right after that, things go back to the ring where the heels hit Ozaki with a Doomsday Device that again dumps Ozaki on her head. That should be it, honestly. That was a nasty flurry of offense that should wipe anyone out. I think it’s a mistake that Suzuki makes the save at two on the resultant cover. However, the heels dispatch of Suzuki and then set Ozaki up for a fucking guillotine legdrop from Nakano that decidently ends the match, so I'm ultimately fine with the earlier save. That match was extremely fun! Though thinking about things, Ozaki may have sacrificed her spine to entertain me, which is a sobering thought. We swing things back to Gene Okerlund, who shills the hotline again (WHO’D WE SIGN, WHO’D WWF SIGN?!) before interviewing Lex Luger and Jimmy Hart. This squirrely little bastard Hart hypes his client before Luger stares into the wrong camera while he promises to put Savage out of the main event by destroying him in their singles match that comes before it. He also, wouldn’t you know it, thinks that he’s going to be the new world’s champion. Chris Benoit is now in the Four Horsemen, and he’s also going to wrestle for the WCW United States Championship. The new champ, Kensuke Sasaki (w/Sonny Onoo) is one of those weird champs from this period whom I always forget held this title. One Man Gang is the other one. On another note, I am asking myself which of the following is more of a nagging annoyance to me: The chyron spelling his name Kensuki Sasake or everyone on commentarypronouncing his name KEN-SUE-KEY? I think it’s the latter because WCW’s chyron game is typically so bad that I half-ignore the chyrons at this point. Speaking of strange things, here's another sort of strange thing around this time: Benoit becoming the fourth member of the Horsemen with no real build-up. He is in these vignettes where he shows up in Atlanta to sign with the company and then – boop! – he’ssuddenly in the newly-reconstituted Horsemen. Maybe some of that build was off-loaded to Saturday Night. I haven’t seen 1995 WCWSN in the three decades since it aired, after all. (Mini-digression: I stopped to watch Sting lose the U.S. Championship to Kensuke Sasaki in NJPW, which happened shortly before this show. Sting fucking dove over the corner post on a dead run to hit Sasaki with a diving crossbody on the floor. I knew that Sting was a stellar athlete, but that spot still surprised me. Maybe I simply don’t recall him doing it much in the U.S.? I actually got a bit of a Hogan-in-Japan feeling from both that and some of the leveraged leg work he uses on Sasaki, including a nasty legbar in which he posts his boot right into the back of Sasaki’s knee and cranks back on the leg. The match is a solid one that is only somewhat marred by noticeable timing issues between the two in a couple of spots, but the fun of it is watching Sting adjust his work to his New Japan audience. I will continue to bang the drum that Sting is, in fact, underrated as a worker by the most knowledgeable fans online.) Benoit and Sasaki have a slow opening full of hammerlocks and knuckle locks and struggle and strife over who shall get the initial upper hand. Sasaki decides to dispense with all that and throws clubbering forearms and a couple of hard body slams, the latter of which gets two. Sasaki immediately goes into a chinlock. Benoit tries to confuse Sasaki with his agility, but all his leapfrogs and switches merely get him press slammed. Finally, Benoit manages to leg toss Sasaki to the floor and follow with a wild-feeling suicide dive. Why not spend some time out here, Benoit presumably thinks, as he uses the apron as a weapon to attack Sasaki’s back with before tossing him back in the ring at six and scoring a snap suplex for two. Benoit settles into a rest hold while Onoo joins the desk. We watch Onoo talk for a bit and don’t see how Sasaki escapes the hold; by the time we cut back to the ring, Sasaki is landing a powerslam for two. Sasaki tries a vertical suplex, but Benoit leaps out and hooks Sasaki for two rolling Germans; Sasaki back elbows his way out of a third and snaps off a nice running lariat to put an end to Benoit’s comeback. Sasaki looks for a Tombstone, but hasn’t he been watching the matches? This went poorly for DDP a couple of matches ago, and it bodes just as poorly for Sasaki. Benoit reverses it, drills Sasaki with a Tombstone of his own, and then goes up for a diving headbutt that only gets two because Benoit scrambled his own brains upon impact (is it kayfabe? is it a shoot?) and delayed the cover. Benoit next tries a super Frankensteiner, but that also only earns him a two count. Benoit seems a bit out of ideas (definitely only from a kayfabe perspective, mind you) and throws a few ineffective boots to Sasaki’s gut. Sasaki catches a boot and leverages Benoit up and into a nasty slam, then locks Benoit in an octopus hold. Benoit swings his legs and hooks one around the bottom rope to break the hold. Benoit tries a lariat, but Sasaki eats that for breakfast and lands a vicious lariat in turn. That puts Benoit almost out of it; Sasaki follows up with a brainbuster that puts Benoit completely out of the match and earns Sasaki a three count. This match was perfectly cromulent, but I expected better. I think it’s also weird to job Benoit here when you’re bringing him in as this big deal free agent signing and sticking him in the Horsemen. Jimmy Hart, Kevin Sullivan, and the Giant are next on the list to interview with Gene Okerlund. Sullivan cuts a mostly telligible, coherent promo in which he declares the Giant to be the UNCROWNED CHAMPION. Okerlund tries to stir up dissension in the Dungeon’s ranks by suggesting that Humorous – excuse me, Hugh Morrus – or the Booty Man – excuse me once more, the Zodiac – will want to become the champion themselves. He fails to do so, however. Then the Giant speaks. That’s unfortunate because the Giant says exactly this to Hogan: ROSES ARE RED, VIOLETS ARE BLUE, I’M GONNA KICK YOUR BUTT TO KALAMAZOO. Terrible. Take a lap. Tony S. does a little promoting for Starrcade ’95, which happened on a Wednesday night because Christmas Eve was on Sunday the 24th that year. If I watched modern pro wrestling, I would love a good Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday night PPV in the week between Christmas and New Year’s Day. Actually, one cool thing that I’ve done before is go to a Premier League game on Boxing Day. I’m sure AEW wouldn’t want to complete with the PL on Boxing Day, but it would maybe be a cool idea for them to find a gap in the winter holiday fixture list and put on a PPV someday, preferably in the UK (I tihnk Christmastime in the UK is the absolute coolest). Feud recap: Randy Savage and Lex Luger have quite a bit of beef, which wasn’t helped by Luger hitting Savage even though they were on the same team at War Games. Luger beat Savage on Nitro (Show #5), but Savage beat Luger at Havoc ’95. Neither win was entirely clean, so let’s see if someone can earn a squeaky clean victory in tonight’s rubber match! Randy Savage interviews with Gene Okerlund; it’s less contentious and not as focused on trading claims of uneven facial hair styling as it was the month before. Savage is a bit tense tonight. Maybe “jittery” is a better word, since Savage uses it. He claims I’M ALWAYS JITTERY; IT’S PART OF MY CHARM. Savage declares that his arm is A MILLION PERCENT healthy because, in his words, [THAT’S] BETTER THAN A HUNDRED PERCENT. Babyface Savage is a lot of silly fun mixed in with legitimate sparks of intensity. I think I’ve come around even to appreciating somewhat dorky heel Savage in 1997, ’98, and ’99. Tweener Savage in ’99 when he comes back with Team Madness is legitimately awesome, too. That match between Randy Savage and Lex Luger (w/Jimmy Hart) is next. Savage jumps on Luger immediately and lands chokes and fists. Savage even shakes off charging into a Luger boot and lands a quick clothesline in response, followed by wrapping on a Boston Crab that Luger breaks because of Savage’s questionable positioning and execution of the move. The match goes to the floor, where the fans tap the guardrail in front of them and demand that Savage bonk Luger’s noggin RIGHT HEEEERRRREEE. Savage obliges for a couple of them, then tosses Luger back into the ring and calls for the finish. He slams Luger and goes up for a Savage Elbow, which scores. However, just as in their Nitro match (again, Show #5), the ref is too distracted to make the count. Savage scores yet another visual three count while Jimmy Hart distracts the referee. Rather than wait for the ref, Savage dumps Luger to the floor to continue the punishment, but Luger is able to launch Savage into one of the ring aprons. Savage clutches his back while Luger rolls into the ring and breaks the count, at which point he rolls back outside and puts Savage in a Torture Rack. Luger only breaks the hold to beat the count; he puts Savage in the ring, flexes, and locks an armbar on Savage’s damaged, Ace-wrapped arm. That gets a submission or a knockout victory, but either way, Luger tries to completely destroy Savage’s arm until Sting enters the ring and convinces Luger to let Savage go. Luger, if you’ll recall from many reviews ago, did the same when Sting wouldn’t let Flair out of the Scorpion Deathlock (Nitro Show #10). The power of friendship really is something, huh? I mean, unless you’re too stupid to tell the difference between your closest friend and someone unconvincingly masquerading as your closest friend even though he’s standing right in front of you, and no, the conditions being dark and rainy doesn’t excuse you of being a dolt, Luger, you idiot. *ahem*, but yeah, friendship is magic. Another feud recap: Ric Flair deviates from trying to ruin Randy Savage’s life and instead tries to ruin Sting’s life for a little while. But will it be Sting that ruins Ric Flair’s chance to become world champ once again? Let’s find out together, reader. Flair enters first, followed by Sting. Flair gets in Sting’s face and tries to intimidate him. He is punched into the next ring, where he challenges Sting to follow him. Sting does and then lands another hard right and a press slam. The crowd is extremely into the proceedings. Sting is massively over as a babyface. I’m sure Hulk Hogan is feeling bad about himself backstage listening to this pop, and I feel great about this! I sure hope he really did feel badly! The likelihood that he did seems high! Flair does get in there with chops. He struts. That gets a huge pop. Everything these two do in these rings gets a huge pop. They’re not even doing that much. I’m not saying that they’re half-assing it, mind you. I just mean that they’re landing punches and chops and taunts punctuated by a bit of explosive offense from Sting, and the crowd is absolutely eating this up. Sting dropkicks Flair to the floor; Flair goes into the third ring and challenges Sting once more. At this point, production cuts to the ramp, where Col. Robert Parker and Sister Sherri are standing. These two lovebirds wander toward a spot on the stage from which they watch the match. Hmm. In the meantime, Sting has joined Flair in the third ring, where he snacks on a few Flair chops before landing a few strikes of his own, winding up a punch and landing it, and then clotheslining Flair to the floor. The long and short of this ringside brawl is that Flair barely escapes a Stinger Splash against the rails, which is the first time all night he looks like he has a remote chance of winning this match. Flair is blocked from using a chair on offense by ref Nick Patrick, but he uses chops and eye gouges to keep control…until he gets back in the ring, where a chop wakes Sting up and Flair has to land a forearm shot to Sting’s twig and berries to avoid being throttled. Flair drops knees on Sting and struts, as is his way. He can get away with it because Sting is too busy trying to forge through the pain in his ballsack. Flair sets up for the Figure Four next, landing an intricate series of moves that target Sting’s kne—oh, who am I kidding, he kicks the guy in the knee and lands a couple of kneedrops. Flair sends Sting over the top rope while Nick Patrick is indisposed so that he can hit some more knee kicks and chops. Back in the ring, Flair yanks at Sting’s lips and is generally a complete asshole. After a back suplex, Flair manages to lock on a Figure Four in the middle of the ring. However, Flair makes the tactical error of disrespectfully slapping Sting, who immediately finds the energy to turn Flair over. Sting follows up with a backslide for two; Flair kicks out, shoves the ref, gets shoved to the mat in retaliation, and then wakes Sting up with another chop. So, yeah, that was a kayfabe terrible sequence for Flair. Flair switches rings again, but Sting has too much FIGHTING SPIRIT to feel the knee injury that Flair gave him; he follows and lands offense until Flair jabs him in the eye. Luckily for Sting, Flair takes ages to go up top. You know what happens next. Sting shoots Flair into the corner. You know what happens next. Basically, it looks all over for Flair, and indeed it is. Sting lands a superplex and then wraps Flair snugly into a Scorpion Deathlock in the center of the ring; Flair submits, and Sting lets him go…and starts limping again as his adrenaline surge is now subsiding since he won the match. Nice touch. Sting is the best, y’know? What a wrestler. Anyway, I really liked this match mostly because 1995 Sting is fun as hell and the crowd loves these Sting/Flair encounters, which enhanced the proceedings. Hype video: How did the first WW3 Battle Royal go from being for a title shot to being for the title itself? Just read my Halloween Havoc ’95 review! And then read the review for the Nitro a couple of shows after that (Show #10), where Jimmy Hart tried some legal fuckery with the contract for the Havoc match that was nullified by WCW’s legal team! I think I like the idea of WW3’s title shot award being given at SuperBrawl rather than Starrcade. It theoretically allows them to choose some out-of-the-way winners because they don’t have to make sure to pick someone who would fit in the main event at their biggest show as WWE generally does. The biggest issue with this type of match is that it’s simply too derivative of the Royal Rumble with its battle royal winner gets a title shot stip. The second biggest issue with this type of match is that, as we talked about long ago in this thread, it’s simply too visually messy to be effective. It's the return of the Big Stinky Giant count, which lands on only one as Hogan shows rare restraint in this promo with Gene Okerlund. It’s still a crappy promo, mind you. It’s just less worse than you’d expect. I also need to standardize the Big Stinky Giant count as a running feature by underlining it in my past reviews rather than putting it in bold lettering. Anyway, Hogan thinks he’s going to win the title, per the theme of tonight’s Okerlund interviewees. Tony S. and Heenan commentate in front of ring number one. Eric Bischoff and Dusty Rhodes have their own commentary table in front of ring number two. Hooray, it’s Dusty! Dusty Rhodes essentially rules hard at everything he does, and yes, that includes booking (in the short term, at least). Chris Cruise is really a bit much over at the ring three commentary table, which he shares with Larry Z. OK, it’s main event time here in Roanoke. I’ll shout out any surprising or weird entrants: Barrio Brother Ricky, for example! Pistol Pez is out here, too. Sgt. Buddy Lee Parker and Lt. James Earl get in a shoving match on their way to the ring. Huh, Kanyon’s in this thing? That’s quite the early bird cameo ([tm] TV Tropes). Mike Winner, Big Train Bart, Dave Sullivan, both Super Assassins, and another Barrio Brother (Fidel this time, and I assume that’s Fidel Sierra) also troop out here, and I think to myself that this match would be better with more of the cruiserweights who came in by the end of 1996 in it. I can’t even get hyped for a small La Parka run tonight. Instead, I gotta watch Dave Sullivan. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Alright, folks, let’s do this one more time: · The Rumble’s other big advantage is having one person run down at a time so that everyone gets spotlighted. This is just a mass of bodies. · Super Invader 2 (I think) is your quiz answer for who the first man to be eliminated from a World War 3 battle royal was, just in case you were wondering, though Tony S. exclaims that Mike Winner hit the floor first. I’m not sure that he did. This is one to check on that bastion of research integrity known as Wikipedia. · Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair are doing a spot that the crowd is clearly reacting to. I know that Hogan and Flair are involved thanks to Chris Cruise's commentary. However, I can’t see the spot because of the thicket of bodies in the way and the unfortunate choices in camera coverage. · I do think that the announcers excitedly kicking it to one another to cover what’s going on in different rings feels sort of exciting. That’s a neat feature of how WCW is producing this match. It’s not enough to overcome the negatives obviously, but their hurried commentary and tossing it around the horn makes things feel hectic and busy. · But what’s really going on is punch-kick-choke mania. · They’re trying to sell storylines at the tables, including what the Horsemen and the Dungeon are up to and how Sting and Luger are interacting, but it’s too hard to see for me to get attached to any of these narratives running through the show. They get a great shot of Parker and Earl shoving one another after being simultaneously eliminated, though! And of course, no one at the desk mentions this one clear storyline development that has been easy to follow during this main event! WCW, everybody! · Sting helps a Nasty Boy land a Pit Stop on Disco. Disco sells the move exquisitely. · Big Train Bart is eliminated. He was out here looking like a poorly-groomed Mario. · Lex Luger and Arn Anderson fight each other on the floor, but I’m not sure either of them are eliminated. I feel that you should be subject to a ten count if you’re on the floor after going either through the middle of or under the ropes. · Sting and the Giant have their own extended fight in one of the rings; the Giant wins that fight and dumps Sting to the mat, then nudges him under the top rope and to the floor with his boot. That ring, which I think is ring number two, now empties as everyone still legal in it moves on over to ring number one. · Are Arn and Luger still fighting outside from earlier before, or did they once again spill to the floor? Who knows?! · A kayfabe injured Randy Savage (but not shoot injured if Hogan's earlier rant is to be believed) continues to dodge, dip, duck, dive, and dodge his way through this match. · A bunch of guys go out through the middle rope for some reason. All this floor fighting sucks. I hate floor fighting in battle royals. Keep that shit in the ring instead of having guys getting on the floor willy-nilly. Make hitting the floor a notable event in this type of match, please. · Sgt. Pittman makes the mistake of locking on a submission hold in a battle royal. Unless you’re in the final two, I suppose. He survives it, and in fact is able to easily eliminate Joey Maggs after locking him in a Code Red. That’s textbook Bad Process, Good Outcome stuff right there. · Now Savage and Luger fight on the floor. Luger has spent more time outside the ring than in it in this most busy and poorly booked of battle royals. · Scott Armstrong does a stretcher job, and I have no clue if this is a shoot or a work. · Tony S. points out Luger being on the floor for most of this match and points out that the referees need to quash that shit. Again, a ten count for uneliminated wrestlers on the floor that they must beat or thus be eliminated would solve all this! Also, institute VAR! · OK, on second thought, maybe don’t institute VAR. · Hogan tosses Kevin Sullivan over the top and to the floor; Savage and Luger go back outside to brawl some more. · DDP and Johnny B. Badd eliminate one another; Page stalks Badd on the floor to continue that battle. · Alright, there are sixteen guys left in this bout, all in the first ring, finally. Make it fifteen as Kurosawa gets tossed. · Hulk Hogan and Paul Orndorff renew their rivalry after a few years; Flair and Sting pick theirs up again twenty-five or so minutes after they last clashed. · Finally, we’re clearing the rest of the detritus: Zodiac goes, followed by Captain General Hubert G. Morrus-Rection III. · Our final ten: Sting, Eddy Guerrero, One Man Gang, Paul Orndorff, Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Lex Luger, Arn Anderson, the Giant, and Ric Flair. · Eddy is the featured midcarder in this bout, by the way, which doesn’t work so well since Eddy hasn’t been discussed on commentary much if at all until this point. "This point" at which he gets attention encompasses him eating signature offense from Sting, Flair, and Arn and barely hanging on before finally being tossed. *sigh*, par for the course, WCW. · Shortly after Eddy and Orndorff are both eliminated, Sting slingshots Arn into Flair as Flair teeters on the top rope; Flair topples to the floor and throws a fit, unable to believe that an attempted top rope move backfired on him! Wow, I didn’t see that coming either, Flair! Arn also goes over the top and to the floor after that collision. · OK, the finish is a hot mess. So, Sting and Luger make an alliance to defeat the Giant. They hit a double lariat and then try to toss the Giant over the top. While that mass of humanity is leaning against the ropes, Hogan splits away from Savage, whom he is helping try to eliminate OMG, and tips that whole mass of humanity over. The eliminated Giant casually reaches in and yanks Hogan to the floor and underneath the bottom rope, which the single referee officiating this match misses because he’s too focused on Savage leveraging Gang the rest of the way over the top and to the floor. Randy Anderson looks around, sees no one else but Savage in the ring, and calls the match for Savage, who wins the gold in the shittiest way possible. · We didn’t see Savage eliminate Gang because we were too busy looking at Hogan bodyslam the Giant on the mats. What a bad finish, amplified by the missed shot of Savage eliminating Gang and intensified by Hogan not even going over the fucking top rope. At least have the Giant pull a Stone Cold and come back in the ring to toss Hogan over the top instead of the ref suddenly missing a wrestler going under the bottom rope for the first time all match. Hogan is a crying-ass catchphrase-stealing punk bitch about it, and only a small portion of the Roanoke crowd co-signs his argument that he went under the bottom rope. On third thought, maybe WCW should institute VAR after all. The WW3 match stunk, but otherwise, I am surprised that overall, this show was pretty good. No match was worse than “perfectly acceptable” and a considerable portion of the show was genuinely enjoyable. If you watched this show and then dipped out after Sting/Flair, you’d probably quite enjoy your two hours spent viewing it. I need to look back, but I think this might have been the best WW3 PPV overall, though it probably had the worst WW3 battle royal match as a part of it. Link to follow-up Nitro review: http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/9193-smelly-watches-every-nitro-era-nitro-thunder-clash-and-ppv-while-sitting-and-sometimes-maybe-standing/#findComment-1113009

My copy of Beyond Nitro just got here. Even though I'm in the middle of another book, I'll be doing the old "alternating between two thick books at the same time" deal. Beyond Nitro is over six hundred pages and Lonesome Dove is over eight hundred, and what I really need right now is a summer break, a beach, and a cooler full of drinks.

Congrats. Also, how the fuck did you get a handful pre-ordered? I was lucky with PS5, but I got stonewalled this time around. I'd really like to get mine by launch, so I'm hoping that I'll get an invite in the next week. Obviously, I'll get one eventually. If I can at least get it shipped to me before Bananza comes out, I'll be happy.

I wonder if HOT X-DIVISION OPENERS ever became a legitimate thing for TNA. I've watched TNA television, but never all that regularly except for maybe a short time in 2008-ish. Psicosis and James Storm are a WCW-ass WCW random tag team pairing. Ferrara should have stayed off television, but when asked to make television without Russo's influence, he did pretty decently. The problem isn't hiring Ferrara, it's pairing him with Russo instead of with Terry Taylor or someone of that type who can ground the ideas in the writer's room and put together at least semi-consistently solid television. I don't think the last three months of WCW television set the world on fire, but some of it was very good in a way that it hadn't been since 1998 and immediately raised the floor for show quality. Ferrara as a TV personality is the absolute pits, though. Ken Shamrock never quite got the push that he needed to be a huge star, and that's down to his never working WCW. He's perfect for WCW or the NWA. Not so much for WWF or a Russo-fied TNA. Jeff Jarrett learning all the wrong lessons from WCW's demise because Vince Russo and Ed Ferrara tried to make him a main eventer was the death knell for this company's growth, both at the time and now. They'll always be what they are because they established themselves as low-rent late-era WCW in that first impression. And the second impression. And the third impression. And the fourth...