Brian Fowler Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Heyman's run in 2001 when Lawler left over Kat was fucking fantastic. Jerry Lawler is really bad at color, on the flip side. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Yeah, I think my favorite commentary team is probably Heyman & JR, honestly. Oh, and I'm on the Jesse Ventura side, personally. Way more entertaining to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 JR and Heyman are definitely on my list of all-time favorite teams, right there with Gorilla and Bobby. To me, personally, nothing will ever top the Gorilla and Bobby team during Flair's WWF run though. Everything they always did that made them great, amplified by Flair's presence. The Rumble is the obvious high point, but they were great constantly with the "Fair to Flair" bits, Heenan apologizing for not being his normal unbiased self, the Mania 8 Flair/Savage match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie20x6 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 One of the best moments Lawler had as a commentator was the first time he stood up for JR. Up to that point he was more heelish, but had shown hints of being a good guy. From that point on there really was nowhere for the JR/Lawler pairing to go. JR went on to have better partnerships (Heyman, Taz), and Lawler just continually got more and more mediocre. It's been 13 years since Lawler left the first time, so he's basically white noise at this point - nothing Lawler says really adds anything to a match. He's just there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEN! Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I never liked Monsoon or Heenan. Thought Ventura was great in WCW. Really liked him with Schiavone there. Used to think JBL was the best color commentator of all time when he would have to call Matt Hardy vs. Gregory Helms in these nothing matches every single week and would make them sound like they were important. And then he came back. Wish WWE would shake their commentary teams up. Put Josh Mathews and Lawler on Raw with a rotating third seat of someone like Booker, Regal, or Renee Young. With a three-hour show they can switch out the third seat during the show. Give Lawler his Magistrator back and let him heel a little. Put Cole and JBL on SmackDown with a third. Cole is awful but JBL doesn't let him dominate the broadcast. Problem is JBL then dominates the broadcast. Really wish they'd make some effort in splitting the brands back up too. Still think they should rebrand SmackDown as WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My only problem with the Heenan/Monsoon pairing is that you could turn "Will you be serious" and "Will you stop" into a drinking game for most shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, the Class of 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame: Takashi Matsunaga (Founder of All Japan Women) Hiroshi Tanahashi Kensuke Sasaki Dr. Wagner, Sr. Atlantis Henri Deglane (20s French star, former AWA Champ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, the Class of 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame: Takashi Matsunaga (Founder of All Japan Women) Hiroshi Tanahashi Kensuke Sasaki Dr. Wagner, Sr. Atlantis Henri Deglane (20s French star, former AWA Champ) Cheers. Be interested to see the percentages of those who got in, also how Brockkkkk Lesnarrrrr and Edge did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Bobby was fun in WCW when Dusty was around to bounce his stuff off of. The Regal/Finlay match where he made a joke out of Dusty's pronunciation of Jeeves is a priceless moment. Speaking of color guys, Big Dust could be great when he wasn't babbling about the NWO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Dusty not understanding playing possum is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Speaking of color guys, I am now imagining some sort of roundtable discussion on a variety of topics, someone bringing up color guys, and Iron Shiek starting to ramble about Rocky Johnson. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 i'll add a caveat to the Heenan checking out point: Heenan pretty much didn't care about anything except Goldberg for a period of time. Granted Heenan's reasoning for never wanting Goldberg to job was a bit.... well... his reasoning involved rich Jews, IIRC. He mentioned it a few times in his 2001 internet media tour I think Ventura's two commentary stints were 4/5 years in the WWF and 2 1/2 years in WCW. So he had the benefit of not working 7 year commentary stints in both promotions back to back like Heenan. And i've read of people preferring the Body Shop over Piper's Pit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My only problem with the Heenan/Monsoon pairing is that you could turn "Will you be serious" and "Will you stop" into a drinking game for most shows.And that's a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My only problem with the Heenan/Monsoon pairing is that you could turn "Will you be serious" and "Will you stop" into a drinking game for most shows.And that's a problem?Alcohol poisoning is *always* a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My only problem with the Heenan/Monsoon pairing is that you could turn "Will you be serious" and "Will you stop" into a drinking game for most shows.And that's a problem? Was never a problem for Heenan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 So, watching this Mid-South set from WWE ... found the answer to "worst announcing in the wrestling world" question ... Jim Ross of the 21st century announcing over old Mid-South matches as if he were the Jim Ross of the 80s-90s, which also means attempting to sell the match as if he were announcing it as it happened. He sneaks in "slobberknocker" ... shit's worse than the Joey Styles "flipping people off won't get you very far" overdub on the Pioneer DVD version of Austin/Sandman/Whipreck. Agreed. That was brutal. They should've just had him sit down with guys who were involved in the matches and just gone over stories behind the match, what each guy was thinking during their spots, etc. For instance like when Cole sat down with RVD/Eddie and they talked about their RAW ladder match or when Cole and Jericho did commentary over Jericho's match with HBK at Mania and a couple of other matches on Y2J's set. Also, what was the deal with them even needing to use updated commentary in the first place? Was the audio in those matches just not usable? Most of those JR in 2013 matches seemed like they were taped for tv so they wouldn't have been bereft of commentary in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Dusty not understanding playing possum is amazing.Dusty will always have my commentary love for thinking La Parka was a ghost. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Harms Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I'm trying to choose between Jesse and Heenan, but it's too hard. They're both in my head when I think of nostalgic wrestling moments. Bobby Heenan was hilarious and just ridiculously fun to listen to bouncing off Monsoon. But Jesse made everything sound big-time and legit. Look at that Savage/Hogan match for example. Top to bottom, the commentary team are pointing out subtle moves and explaining why the wrestlers did it. It's treated like any legit contest would be treated. Also, Jesse points out what we're all thinking and not what the WWF wants us to think. "Why is it ok when Hogan pulls the tights, Gorilla?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, the Class of 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame: Takashi Matsunaga (Founder of All Japan Women) Hiroshi Tanahashi Kensuke Sasaki Dr. Wagner, Sr. Atlantis Henri Deglane (20s French star, former AWA Champ) Cheers. Be interested to see the percentages of those who got in, also how Brockkkkk Lesnarrrrr and Edge did. TAKASHI MATSUNAGA 74% DR. WAGNER SR. 69% KENSUKE SASAKI 68% HIROSHI TANAHASHI 65% ATLANTIS 62% Brock Lesnar 47% Edge 37% Carlos Colon missed it by one vote. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 OKay so I'm watching Hogan/Savage WMV, so I can join in. What really cracked me up was this exchange between Gorilla and Ventura that sounds like a precursor to the Wrestler vs. Sports Entertainer concept we deal with today. Jesse (on Savage): To me, the most talented wrestler in the world. Gorilla: If you're carrying that world title, you clearly are the most talented wrestler in the world. Hogan enters. Gorilla: In my book the greatest professional athlete on the planet! So here's what's great about Jesse in this match: He sets up his playing field early. First he denounces Elizabeth as a gold digger. She'll be in the neutral corner and when it's all over she'll go with whoever is the winner. Gorilla doesn't defend her honor, but incidentally reinforces the slight as a possibility by saying: "Sounds like a smart move to me!" This accomplishes two things: One, it sets up a possibility that Liz could turn heel and side with Macho Man. Two, it gives Ventura a ton of leverage as a heel, talking shit. He might be right. So when Hogan comes out second, and Ventura calls bullshit on it and Gorilla AGAIN backs him up by saying it's against normal procedure - you start to maybe side with Jesse when he builds his case that Hogan is playing mind games with Savage with the entrance and with Liz. Maybe he is the Luster. By the time Savage jumps out of the ring and hides behind Liz, Ventura doesn't seem so crazy because he's been given so much room. You can't call him out on supporting a coward because you've allowed the possibility that he's might be right on too much stuff. This is what's tough about Ventura - he's so fucking good at debating you that you really have to have an equal mind across from him to tangle with. Besides all that Ventura is great at calling the action. I'm a huge supporter of treating wrestling matches like tactical battles, not just dances. I LOVE GAMEPLAN WRESTLING. Ventura works from that angle. Hogan's bigger, he has that for sure. But Ventura lets us know that Savage makes up for size with speed and aerial tactics. He also takes a real world concept - amateur wrestling and the points system - and says the pros can't just ride it out for points, you gotta win. So no one can play it safe. I love it when Savage busts out the back suplex on Hogan, because Ventura can be amazed, and since we thought we'd conceded the power game to Hogan, it looks like it may not be such a huge difference. Hogan could be in real trouble. Ventura settles into being a normal heel after the first third - he supports Macho cheating but not Hogan cheating.He does it so much that you feel stupid for thinking he might be right earlier....but then Elizabeth blocks Hogan from crushing Savage's face into ring post. SO CONFUSED. WHO DO I TRUST?! Clearly Jesse Ventura is Satan and he's testing your faith in Hogan Christ. Gorilla(in reference to Hogan after the match): Thanking the man upstairs who made it all possible! I wonder if Ventura was the reason I hated Hogan as a kid? Or if it was Hogan using World title GOLD to support his piety. Hogan can cheat as much as he wants, but if he wins the gold then he is spiritually righteous. Anyway, it's a great call - and it exemplifies all the stuff that makes Ventura one of the greatest to call a match. He fucks with you, but in the end you know he's still wrong. But other than that, he's adding to the storytelling of the match by using actual descriptions of events as opposed to just meaningless exclamations. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I know everyone loves Bobby and I do also but Ventura has to be the greatest color Guy ever right? He put over everyone, added all the realistic little touches we discussed and he called out hypocrisy.. and a single tear rolls down Tito's cheek... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiColin Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, the Class of 2013 Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame: Takashi Matsunaga (Founder of All Japan Women) Hiroshi Tanahashi Kensuke Sasaki Dr. Wagner, Sr. Atlantis Henri Deglane (20s French star, former AWA Champ) Cheers. Be interested to see the percentages of those who got in, also how Brockkkkk Lesnarrrrr and Edge did. TAKASHI MATSUNAGA 74% DR. WAGNER SR. 69% KENSUKE SASAKI 68% HIROSHI TANAHASHI 65% ATLANTIS 62% Brock Lesnar 47% Edge 37% Carlos Colon missed it by one vote. To be honest I've never really payed attention to the WO HoF, but doesn't it seem odd that Tanahashi, a guy who is still in his prime and competing regularly, is already in the HoF? I mean Kensuke and Atlantis still wrestle, but they have been around for for over 20 years, so that makes sense. It just seems weird to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yo-Yo's Roomie Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 As far as I'm concerned, Jesse is the gold standard for colour commentary. Bobby was way too shtick-oriented for my tastes. Fine in small doses, but it just became tiresome over whole shows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 To be honest I've never really payed attention to the WO HoF, but doesn't it seem odd that Tanahashi, a guy who is still in his prime and competing regularly, is already in the HoF? I mean Kensuke and Atlantis still wrestle, but they have been around for for over 20 years, so that makes sense. It just seems weird to me. http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=2098140 pages on the subject, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Also, what was the deal with them even needing to use updated commentary in the first place? Was the audio in those matches just not usable? Most of those JR in 2013 matches seemed like they were taped for tv so they wouldn't have been bereft of commentary in the first place. No, those matches did not have commentary in original form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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