APRIL 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[odessasteps]

Pod #60 - @mrtimlivingston on his S.Korea/Japan trip: baseball, wrestling & more. Also being pxp for @Sonomastompers

tim talks about his wrestling day in japan, going to korakuen, ribera and meeting kawada. 

Tinyurl.com/winter60

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

5 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Scope, my man.  Too many biopics fail because they try to cover too large a time and never bother to tell a story well (Nixon, J. Edgar, Jobs).   You can acknowledge the accomplishments of a person while focusing in on a story that really examines how they think or what makes them tick (Lincoln, The Social Network, The King's Speech).

Remember, to the majority of people, they either don't know who Vince is, or have an extremely negative opinion of the man.  You have to introduce this man who, through, lying, cheating, sex, drugs, death, and craven manipulation has become a billionaire. You have to show people that Vince is an absolute heartless motherfucker AND a man who is easily worshipped. This is a VERY strange dichotomy and merits further examination.  

Vince stories you can tell:  Taking over WWWF; The Lead Up To Mania 1; The Steroids Trial; The Monday Night Wars; Over The Edge '99; or The Benoit Murder/Suicide.  

Any one of those paints Vince as a genius businessman, a charlatan, a gambler, a brutal realist, and a circus ringmaster.  

There's a fascinating tale in there, if it's allowed to be told, it could be amazing.  But it HAS to stay focused. 

You could probably add Montreal and the XFL to it, although the early 80s Rock n Wrestling connection has far too much easily recognizable visuals involved for them to not go down that path.

Who'd play Hogan?

[Ziggy]

WCW had a ton of heel teams in 96, thats gotta be the reason Bischoff didnt dont anything with Enos and Bloom. They were AWA alum from Minnesota like him , Its a shame he completely jobbed them out, I enjoyed there Beverly Brothers run, they just didn't have many top teams to work in WWF and they were bland as fuck in WCW

[Brysynner]

6 hours ago, (BP) said:

I don't think we'll get any of that from a Vince-approved movie, but it sounds like a hell of a Ryan Murphy mini series one day. 

Vince McMahon approved a WWE documentary on himself that invoked his children saying Vince wanted to do an incest angle. There's probably a lot of leeway on what Vince will allow for this biography 

[PetrolCB]

He might get his wish to include that scene he wanted for Kane's movie. 

[caley]

9 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

WCW had a ton of heel teams in 96, thats gotta be the reason Bischoff didnt dont anything with Enos and Bloom. They were AWA alum from Minnesota like him , Its a shame he completely jobbed them out, I enjoyed there Beverly Brothers run, they just didn't have many top teams to work in WWF and they were bland as fuck in WCW

Mike Enos was amazing on WCWSN around this time when he was just a singles wrestler, and busted out all kinds of crazy power moves on jobbers and just dominated them.  I remember at the time i was tracking Wins/Losses on WWF/WCW TV shows and then making a Top 10 based off of those Wins-Losses (I long ago lost the records but it was fun at the time) and Enos would always win in dominating fashion so I kept moving him up my Top 10 list and had him right near the top and thought "They must have big plans for him" and was waiting for the big Mike Enos moment, then he'd get squashed by some low level NWO guy (Like Brian Adams) and I'd have to move him down off the list.  This happened a few times and I got fooled every time ("This.  This is the Enos' time to shine!").

[mattdangerously]

11 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

So... the Vince biopic. I'm curious what a 90 minute movie made for non-wrestling audiences would look like. And who can play big and over the top enough to be a convincing Vince without resorting to caricature? 

 

Al motherfucking Pacino.  I want a Vince McMahon biopic that steers into caricature.  Anything less would be disrespectful.

[piranesi]

4 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

Al motherfucking Pacino.  I want a Vince McMahon biopic that steers into caricature.  Anything less would be disrespectful.

I think Ahmed Best is available to do motion capture.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

38 minutes ago, caley said:

Mike Enos was amazing on WCWSN around this time when he was just a singles wrestler, and busted out all kinds of crazy power moves on jobbers and just dominated them.  I remember at the time i was tracking Wins/Losses on WWF/WCW TV shows and then making a Top 10 based off of those Wins-Losses (I long ago lost the records but it was fun at the time) and Enos would always win in dominating fashion so I kept moving him up my Top 10 list and had him right near the top and thought "They must have big plans for him" and was waiting for the big Mike Enos moment, then he'd get squashed by some low level NWO guy (Like Brian Adams) and I'd have to move him down off the list.  This happened a few times and I got fooled every time ("This.  This is the Enos' time to shine!").

I also thought as a kid that he would be in line for a push with his dominant performances on SN and Thunder. I will, however, say that having both "Mean" Mike Enos and Mean Mike of Disorderly Conduct on the roster at the same time (and almost definitely on the same cards) is something that would've never flown in the WWF.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

You could probably add Montreal and the XFL to it, although the early 80s Rock n Wrestling connection has far too much easily recognizable visuals involved for them to not go down that path.

Who'd play Hogan?

How hilarious would it be if Hogan playing himself turned into some sort of Woody in True Detective-like comeback vehicle for him

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Vince to me is one of those people who I don't think any actor could ever get right.   Tupac is another and that's why I probably won't watch his biopic.  

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I hope they just take serious liberties with his upbringing based on that Playboy interview.

Have it revealed that Vince killed his younger brother Rod in a machete accident, and spends the rest of his life dealing with the stigma of the wrong son dying that day.

[odessasteps]

 

[The Natural]

17 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

So... the Vince biopic. I'm curious what a 90 minute movie made for non-wrestling audiences would look like. And who can play big and over the top enough to be a convincing Vince without resorting to caricature?

 

[Technico Support]

Just cover all events leading to present day in the opening credits like Watchmen did. 

Except instead of "The Times, They Are A-changin,'" it's "Stand Back."

[A Guy Named Tracy]

12 hours ago, Ziggy said:

WCW had a ton of heel teams in 96, thats gotta be the reason Bischoff didnt dont anything with Enos and Bloom. They were AWA alum from Minnesota like him , Its a shame he completely jobbed them out, I enjoyed there Beverly Brothers run, they just didn't have many top teams to work in WWF and they were bland as fuck in WCW

I always thought Mike Enos could have moved to Japan and had a 10-year run as a top gaijin ala Doc or Gordy. 

[w. josh]

Shame he wasn't around toward the end of WCW. I'm sure Russo could have done something clever and witty with the last name "Enos."

[Ace]

Count me in as a guy who always thought Enos and Bloom would be bigger.

 

[Technico Support]

I just remembered that Enos and Bloom worked for WCW earlier in their careers under a masked gimmick as The Minnesota Wrecking Crew II, manged by Ole Anderson.  They did this while they were the AWA world champs.  Probably the first and only time a title holder from one national company worked midcard under a hood for another national company.

(Yes I do realize calling 1990 AWA "a national company" is stretching it," but they had about the same TV coverage as ROH or TNA has now so fuuuuck yoooouuuuuu)

[Spritenaut 32]

A Vince biopic could be fascinating with the right people directing.  I kinda feel like you have to do something to make it appealing to a mass audience.  Either downplay the wrestling and focus on his personal life, XFL, steroid trial, etc.; or make the wrestling content even more garish and cartoonish than it normally is.  Then again, it's hard to make 80's/90's WWE even more outlandish and lurid.

Does Vince have any involvement in this project?  He's possibly got enough clout to at least try to kill any unflattering portrayals.

Eh, even if it's Oscar-worthy, I probably won't see it.  Wife probably won't have an interest, unless Matthew McConaughey is cast as Shane and I have no interest in spending two hours delving into Vince's life.  The interviews and what-not I've seen of him make his real personality seem almost as abhorrent as the Mr. McMahon character.

[Craig H]

Here's the other problem I see with this biopic. For Vince to sign-off, it's going to soft serve all of these huge events and paint Vince as this quasi anti-hero who fought the government and won, who fought public opinion and won, who fought his competition and won, and who fought naysayers and won. Will we see some silly shit like Vince, Pat, and Bruce pitching storylines at Vince's pool? Probably. Will we see Vince as the monster we know he can be? Doubtful, or if we do, we'll see more of Vince as the guy the boys like and less of the guy the boys are afraid of.

Vince isn't going to allow himself to look like a monster.

[muhammedboehm]

Don't forget the Vince who proposed He or Shane be relieved as the father of Stephanie's first child to Stephanie.

[RRR]

33 minutes ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said:

A Vince biopic could be fascinating with the right people directing.  I kinda feel like you have to do something to make it appealing to a mass audience.  Either downplay the wrestling and focus on his personal life, XFL, steroid trial, etc.; or make the wrestling content even more garish and cartoonish than it normally is.  Then again, it's hard to make 80's/90's WWE even more outlandish and lurid.

Does Vince have any involvement in this project? He's possibly got enough clout to at least try to kill any unflattering portrayals.

Eh, even if it's Oscar-worthy, I probably won't see it.  Wife probably won't have an interest, unless Matthew McConaughey is cast as Shane and I have no interest in spending two hours delving into Vince's life.  The interviews and what-not I've seen of him make his real personality seem almost as abhorrent as the Mr. McMahon character.

Yup to the bold. WWE films has some kind of hand in this. 

Get ready for Vince McMahon, humanitarian that saved wrestling just as all the territories were about to die and turned it in to what everyone knows and loves it as today, Sports Entertainment. 

[JohnnyJ]

I think the most interesting period for the biopic is 91-98.  He road a boom period to impossible heights. Made tons and tons of money. Now, the wrestling fad is over. His replacement for Hogan is a basket case and floundering as a draw. His ambition killed the territory system and there is no longer a feeder system for talent.  The business is tarnished with all of the steroid talk.  The feds are after him. He is losing money and the business is going under. His top level stars have left for a deep pocket rival promotion and he is getting behind  C-level players from the boom era and WCW castoffs with no history of being draws. Even when he can turn this chicken shit into chicken salad, WCW is just picking off anyone worth a damn. All of this leads up to the screwjob where he needs to screw over his own champion to ensure his company does not suffer the ultimate humiliation of having his champion show up on someone elses tv. And from that, against all odds, McMahon and the WWF are reborn. Two years later Vince is a billionaire.