WrestleDream - 10/1/2023

[DreamBroken]

Great show, the streak of PPVs on fire continues. Preshow was fun, loved The Warmaster getting that match and mic time after. MJF with the high spot Body Slam! and the Kangaroo Kick is always fun.  Kingston/Shibata was pretty awesome. 

I wish Julia won, statlander's done nothing for me since returning.  Swerve/Hangman was awesome and maybe fav of the night. Crowd added a lot to it and almost caused a role reversal for awhile there. Great work from both. 

Danielson/Sabre ruled and lived up to the hype. Moxley was a blast on commentary for each of his stablemates' matches. Thought the trios match was a lot of fun, loved Jericho's hulking up and then the heels slow turn around to come face to face with Kota going in to kill mode.  Another great FTR defense, dug the Super Shatter finish. 

Great main event and chaotic closing surprise. Surreal to see Adam Copeland arrive with his theme music, doing the whole entrance and all then facing off with Christian. I dig it and look forward to Adam Copeland being All Elite!

[DreamBroken]

2 hours ago, Raziel said:

 A 44 year old with a bad neck that can work 5 times a year?  Finish a program 10 years past it's sell by?

49 year old  

But as mentioned in the scrum, there was emphasis that Adam Copeland will be with AEW "every week" and Tony said we will see him wrestle a lot more than we have in a long time. They announced he'll be on Dynamite and Collision this week, then making his in-ring debut on the following Dynamite.

 

1 hour ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

EDIT: forgot to mention the four-way, which was as stupid as I expected it to be but not nearly as annoying. Also I've seen a million clusterfuck 4 way tag matches but don't think I've ever seen the spot where the heel team try to win by the one guy pinning their own partner -- that spot made me laugh. My spouse suggested that the other three teams came up with it and decided the Ass Boys were the only two dumb enough to believably pull it off, which also made me laugh. Nice of Penta to do a job here. 

An old trick from Daddy Ass! the New Age Outlaws pulled it off in a triple threat tag back in 98. 

[Death From Above]

I mind bringing in a 49 year old with hype a lot less here than in some other places in the past, mainly because say what you will about Tony Khan but he seems keenly aware about trying to keep the Seniors Tour and the World Title separate. It's not a WCW situation where it buries the stuff that actually matters long term.

[SirFozzie]

Ok, did we actually have a short-notice PPV because Tony Khan wanted to do the Copeland reveal on the day he became a free agent on PPV instead of a few days later on Dynamite...

If so, that's well.. something I'd expect a billionaire-ish money mark to do. (Not that I don't think he's done a bad job, mind you. Just that it shows he loves it and while he wants to make money, he's absolutely having a blast doing this)

I'm probably reading too much into it, but considering how quickly this was thrown together (and how everything got booked into this at the last week or two) it might be "Hey, we wanted to do the WrestleDream thing, when should we schedule it for".. and someone deciding that this date was good, considering this free agent we're thinking about signing...

(I may just call him Edge, I've known him as that for what? 25 years?)

Edited October 2, 2023 by SirFozzie

[BrianS81177]

You guys can bitch about a 49 year old with a bad neck all you want, but AEW's gotten pretty good mileage out of a 49 year old with a history of concussions.

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Zimbra said:

Didn't we just do this same angle with Darby and AR Fox like 2 months ago?

Darby being cool with Fox again, after the beatdown by Fox and Swerve on Nick, is probably going to end up being what was the catalyst for Nick turning on Darby. So, yes and no. All of that had a meaning in the end, the abrupt switch back to babyface for Fox. They’ve teased it a few times, with Nick looking disgusted when they’re with Fox, Darby talking about him, etc.

I fully expect them to bring up the fact that Copeland wrestled Nick Wayne’s father once, too.

Also, I wonder how many of the people blasting AEW for signing a 49 year old Adam Copeland were loving his shit in WWE just a few months ago. You already see the hate in the comments on his recent tweet thread to wrestling fans.

[Eivion]

4 minutes ago, Casey said:

Also, I wonder how many of the people blasting AEW for signing a 49 year old Adam Copeland were loving his shit in WWE just a few months ago. You already see the hate in the comments on his recent tweet thread to wrestling fans.

I really enjoyed a match he had with Grayson Waller a few months back, but I also wanted him more or less gone. I think AEW is fresher place for him, but I still think the value he brings will be relatively small. I can see why some might be annoyed with him there when AEW has plenty of other wrestlers to focus on. Its actually one of the reasons I got tired of him in WWE.

[Casey]

4 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

From the media scrum, Edge sounded legit happy to be there and said he's planning to be full time and looking forward to wrestling a number of people on the roster (Claudio, Joe, Moxley, Omega) as well as advising the younger wrestlers. They're having a show on Tuesday October 10 because it's Tony Kahn's birthday and Edge will be wrestling Luchasaurus in his debut.

It should be pointed out that Title Tuesday is only that because the MLB playoffs will be on TBS, not because TK wanted a show on his birthday

[Matt D]

I’m super high on MJF right now. He’s not the heir to Bret we were promised but he’s the heir to Dusty and that’ll work just as well in these trying times. His comments to Alvarez were about 80% of the way to my own personal philosophy about wrestling.

[odessasteps]

It's amazing how many of the "retired by injury" people that have come back in this company have stayed relatively healthy. Maybe it's the lighter schedule or just Vince was overly cautious with their injuries (more for bad PR than any actual human concerns, of course). 

[J.T.]

What the fuck, AEW?   You look at the card on paper and you go "Eh, I might be able to skip this one," but you buy the PPV anyway and then bonkers shit goes down that makes this show seem just as important as Forbidden Door or All In.

Is that your plan?  Weaponize my FOMO to drain my bank account.

Because it's a good plan.  The shit is working.

Edited October 2, 2023 by J.T.

[Gorman]

If Copeland is allowed to be "The Rated R Superstar," then I think we will be getting an appearance from Tony Chimel.

[Just Dave]

I see some of the folks in here comparing AEW signing Edge to some TNA shit. I feel you. I do. And I don't think you're totally off base. I do think it's worth pointing out that none of the veterans TNA brought in really ever seemed like they wanted to be there. The WCW survivors were there to get paid and the WWE exiles were there trying to turn Vince's attention back to them. Even the people running TNA didn't take TNA seriously. You can easily see how excited Edge is to be there. I'm sure the Brinks truck full of Khan money doesn't hurt, but Edge is a guy who's always been open about his wrestling fandom. I hope TK learned enough from the Punk debacle to know not to put his top title on a guy who's health could spoil at any moment, but it is a huge net positive to have a guy with Edge's enthusiasm and attitude around the young guys in AEW. I'm cautiously optimistic that this will have a different result than when Punk used the phrase "work with young talent" as code for "go over everybody under the guise of helping them."

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Firstly - it's like the second time in a week some fucking moron has made a dumbshit remark about drugs in a really unsupportive context, and its pretty annoying.

Re the PPV:

- I really liked the six man, everyone played their part, but wow did I see why Vince hated Jericho/Owens. Feels like its not the first time where Jericho as a face against a hated rival decides to get his shit in instead, at least at the start anyway. That Guevara SSP to the outside is a ridiculous spot that never fails to get a reaction out of me.

- Mox on commentary was funny as fuck. Plenty of times where AEW has ruined shows with awful commentary, this might have been a rare opposite in certain parts of the show.

- Really enjoyed Swerve/Page and the crowd reactions for Swerve. Silly finish, but if it means we get more of it, pretty happy.

- Just do not care at all about FTR as faces, and I think we continue to sleep on how bad the AEW tag division is. The top rope shatter machine finish was superb, everything else feels very repetitive, and I do not want another FTR/Bucks match. Ideally, I'd be putting the belts on Guevara/Takeshita, do the Bucks match, and then do another six man with Omega when Ospreay is available.

- Someone else already pointed out the ridiculously illogical Edge debut. I hope Nick Wayne's gear gets sorted out post-heel turn, his ring gear/his tron video/his entrance music all clash and they look ridiculous....but yet very on brand for someone his age. I don't like that amongst all this, Darby feels very Booker T in the Nash/HBK/Booker vs HHH/Flair/Jericho set up here. Edge spent all this time doing the contextually unnecessary "will he won't he shake his hand" deal with Sting and barely acknowledges Darby. I just hope this is a sprint of a three month run, not sure how you get a final E&C vs Hardys match out of it, but I really don't want Edge in 2023.

[For Great Justice]

Swerve/Page was great. Swerve is clearly next in line and him and MJF will be a blast whenever that goes down

On Edge, on one hand I’m totally fine if this all ends with like a quadruple retirement Tables, Ladders and Recliners match with the Hardys, but on the other I’m NOT okay with that because while the other three need to hang it up I need Christian on my TV for another 10 years 

[Matt D]

I'm through the pre-show, the first two matches, and the main. Basically, I went to bed before the main event and woke up and watched it without spoilers before having to wake up the 11 year old for middle school. 

• That 8 person tag was pretty much just for me, right? There were bits built to on ROH but also the last pre-show. For those who say Athena should be on Dynamite/Rampage/etc. I'm dubious because she gets way more time to breathe how she wants on ROH and I think the act gets diluted in those other settings maybe. There's already some of that since she's working as a face much more with Billie with her even if obviously she has the cruel and violent streak too. At some point she's going to completely unload on Billie and it'll be great but until then there's increasing pressure of her seeming more and more like a face. The MJF/Cole stuff actually helps here because it makes it seem possible Billie might win her over and when that doesn't happen, it'll be great. The one tease of her vs Shane Taylor was gold. (Well silver maybe). Super fun finishing stretch too with her hitting the O-Face on Lee and then others hitting their stuff.
• Wayne vs Luchasaurus was what it should have been. We'll see where the story goes but he got absolutely crushed and good, he should have! I love Luchasaurus' sideslam out of the power slam position. It just looks wrenching and great. Some nasty bumps in there. A little bit of home. Ultimately doom. Good way to introduce Nick's mom for later.
• Claudio vs Barnett was gnarly. Barnett was owning him on the mat. Makes me want to go back and see some more of his stuff from years' past. He gave Claudio just enough to justify it all and put over the strength but it made me regret we didn't get the Mox match we would have gotten. Post-match was nice. Mox on the mic has me excited for him later in the show. 
• Trios title match was ok. I thought Shane Haste was going to be the next Shawn Michaels back in NXT so I guess I was way off there but you can still see some of it in how he bumps and moves. I feel like there's something too abrupt about the arrival/mic drop finisher sequence that it just stops the action. Somehow it works better as a tag finisher than in a trios since it's easier to rationalize one guy being out on the floor than two for that period of time maybe(?) so I'm glad they have the KRS-ONE too now. 
• Loved MJF vs Righteous. What a well thought out, well put together match. I love the idea of MJF building up a new spot for each of his moves (Kangaroo kick for Aussie Open, choking Joe out, the stupid butt spot here, plus the slam for the Gates match and this) and then getting it over. I'm probably going to write more about this for SC but it's a tough week. We'll see. I had thought I had gotten spoiled that he lost it when I watched last night so I was happily surprised by the finish.
• Kingston vs Shibata was very much what it should be. One pop up to hit stuff by Shibata but it was fine in the context of the match, an explainable blip. There was one awesome shot of Eddie nailing him in the corner and Shibata just rising up from the depths like Keith Lee or something. I liked the story of the rope breaks. Power Bomb looked good.  Eddie can do it!
• And I need to see the main again as I was rushing through it to get to the finish but the sweater bit was hugely clever, the fact Christian couldn't get the stair spot to work well actually helped it since it seemed more organic and violent and I loved that the 2/3 falls structure meant it could be a finish within the match, and then the Wayne turn worked for me. I'm glad they brought Sting in before Adam. It's very funny that he makes a save with a mini movie first. It's better than Jeff Hardy dancing on the way down.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Matt D

[Gorman]

41 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

 I just hope this is a sprint of a three month run, not sure how you get a final E&C vs Hardys match out of it, but I really don't want Edge in 2023.

Well, they have a whole year to set it up for the 25th anniversary of No Mercy 99.

[Just Dave]

3 minutes ago, Gorman said:

Well, they have a whole year to set it up for the 25th anniversary of No Mercy 99.

Do one immediately, then one next year for the 25th. Find out what Terri Runnels is up to. If she shows up, then you could call it the;

Second Annual Good to Great Yearly Terri Invitational Tournament.

The SAGGY TIT. 

 

You know, because they're old. 

Sorry. I'm in a weird mood this morning. I'll see myself out.

[eikerir]

Awesome show as usual, my main takeaway is I just want even more ZSJ and Christian on my TV, all the time.

[JLowe]

More thoughts later but I'm excited to see what @Matt Dthinks about that Swerve-Page match given that he's not a fan of either.

It's been quite a while since I saw a match and wondered how much of it was shoot, but last night Claudio and Bartnett were throwing taters and having moments of grappling that felt very "we are legitimately fighting each other for grip and positioning"

[(BP)]

I know it was Barnett’s home base, but I was very heartened by what a strong Bloodsport chant he and Claudio got during their mic exchange. Bloodsport rules. 

[S.K.o.S.]

9 minutes ago, JLowe said:

More thoughts later but I'm excited to see what @Matt Dthinks about that Swerve-Page match given that he's not a fan of either.

I think he said a few days ago that he's not going to watch it - which would be too bad, because even if someone thought it was terrible they would still have to admit it was a very interesting match. My take on it is that, as much as people are saying they did, they didn't actually flip the face-heel alignment in any meaningful way. Hangman acknowledged that he was getting booed, and Swerve might have started using some flashier offense than he normally would have, but they had the same match they were going to have regardless of what the crowd did.

I really liked the match, and I really liked that Swerve won, but I thought it suffered for them not being able to change things up on the fly.

[Jenalysis]

Given the drama of the past year or so, it's understandable Hangman in particular would be a bit gunshy about audibles like that.  

The match I think was laid-out without a real face or heel, which was smart, so they didn't have to change much.  Hangman did do some heel work on the hand he hurt on Rampage.

 

I want to see where things go from here.  A more vicious Hangman that doesn't go fully to the dark side would be nice, have him be tempted by Callis but not give in.

 

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

This was the first wrestling I've watched of any kind since I think Forbidden Door, so maybe I was just really hungry for wrestling, but I thought this show was absolutely fantastic. The only matches I didn't really care for were the 4-way tag (do we really need the Bucks challenging for, and probably winning, the belts again?), the Jericho 6-man and the FTR tag. I love FTR but they just don't work as well as babyfaces to me. Everything else I loved. The atmosphere around the Swerve/Hangman match elevated it so much and both guys are great anyway. Danielson/ZSJ lived up to the hype moreso than the Danielson/Okada match (probably because Okada just isn't actually that good) and was my match of the night. I was proper bummed out when it ended as I easily could have gone for 10 or so more minutes of that. Christian/Darby was nutso in the best possible way. Darby really is a madman and that second stair bump was uncomfortable to watch but I love heels attacking babyfaces while they're on stretchers so I was laughing out loud at that. I do wonder why Sting took so long to go out there though. As for Adam, even though I haven't been interested in anything he's done for a good long while, and I acknowledge he's been pretty lame for the longest time (at least since that feud with Kane where he murdered Paul Bearer), I still like the guy and marked out for his debut. I do think he can bring value if used correctly, and this just seem like a good way to start. 

I enjoyed everything else to varying degrees with a special shoutout to Stat and Julia, and overall this was a really enjoyable viewing experience after some pretty profound modern wrestling malaise.

[Belgian_Waffle]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

 

• Loved MJF vs Righteous. What a well thought out, well put together match. I love the idea of MJF building up a new spot for each of his moves (Kangaroo kick for Aussie Open, choking Joe out, the stupid butt spot here, plus the slam for the Gates match and this) and then getting it over. I'm probably going to write more about this for SC but it's a tough week. We'll see. I had thought I had gotten spoiled that he lost it when I watched last night so I was happily surprised by the finish.
•  

This is dangerously close to what my own thoughts were as well. I really don't get the "you made the Righteous look like a joke" counter-argument. This was the most high profile thing they were ever going to get, and their heat on tv is mostly non-existent so they were given this spot in spite of not being over. They were good in their roles here. They're not young guys or someone you can build around. Dutch got to do some of his cool power offense. What is the benefit of having one of them pin friggin MJF of all people and immediately return the ROH tag title to a belt nobody cares about again, which is what it has been since Jay died until they put it on MJF and Cole.