June 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[Octopus]

Fellow nerds, with the Squared Circle Reddit page down, I don’t have a quick scroll all-in-one page for wrestling news. Any recommendations on similar pages? 

[notoriusvig]

41 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Fellow nerds, with the Squared Circle Reddit page down, I don’t have a quick scroll all-in-one page for wrestling news. Any recommendations on similar pages? 

Glad to know I'm not the only one who uses it for that. Abridged news basically.

[John from Cincinnati]

I mostly get what I need doomscrolling Twitter. Wrestling news and takes occasionally show up between talk about movies, baseball, and the killer orca uprising.

Solidarity with the orcas. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I mostly get what I need doomscrolling Twitter. Wrestling news and takes occasionally show up between talk about movies, baseball, and the killer orca uprising.

Solidarity with the orcas. 

I need to read slower as at first I read that as the killer opera uprising. My first thought was what opera is this, and why haven’t I heard about it? 

[odessasteps]

I presume anything newsworthy will show up here. 

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, Octopus said:

Fellow nerds, with the Squared Circle Reddit page down, I don’t have a quick scroll all-in-one page for wrestling news. Any recommendations on similar pages? 

I have no idea who runs it but social media sometimes pushes Wrestling Headlines articles to me and they do a pretty good job of aggregating everything.

[AxB]

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I mostly get what I need doomscrolling Twitter. Wrestling news and takes occasionally show up between talk about movies, baseball, and the killer orca uprising.

Solidarity with the orcas. 

[The Natural]

https://twitter.com/CiaranRH93/status/1670249973990957057?cxt=HHwWgoCxnZDg9a0uAAAA

Kazuchika Okada's amazing dropkick. Cool how he got a dropkick over again in 2012. Funny seeing how Okada looked in his first match back from excursion at Wrestle Kingdom 6. Nobody called Okada winning the IWGP Heavyweight Championship from Hiroshi Tanahashi a month later fittingly at The New Beginning. Credit to Okada, Tanahashi and Gedo justifying Okada's big push. Apart from the first Rainmaker in the aforementioned excursion return which looked bad, I've always liked the move.

[Niners Fan in CT]

what in the hell.  Shout out to this podcast i been listening to for alerting me that this happened i don't remember it at all but wow what a legend

 

[tbarrie]

17 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That's not a crazy answer either though I mean it's literally the biggest match of all time right?  Or close to it.  The rematch was watched by 33 million people.  Some people,  especially kids are wrestling fans for the characters and the spectacle rather than a well worked match. 

I don't know if it's what you meant to imply, but suggesting that Andre-Hogan wasn't a "well worked match" strikes me as a much crazier opinion than having it as one's favourite match. It wasn't the specific style of match that the Meltzerites like to throw snowflakes at, but it was awesome. It was worked exactly how it should have been.

[Robert S]

21 hours ago, Shane said:

Been months since I've been around the board to see one of these. I was happy to spend some time with it today.

11:16 this time out. I was confounded by the bottom left corner...

I took me much longer (22 minutes), but same issue with the bottom left corner for me.

[Shartnado]

5 hours ago, tbarrie said:

I don't know if it's what you meant to imply, but suggesting that Andre-Hogan wasn't a "well worked match" strikes me as a much crazier opinion than having it as one's favourite match. It wasn't the specific style of match that the Meltzerites like to throw snowflakes at, but it was awesome. It was worked exactly how it should have been.

I watched the match again a year or two ago, when I watched either Prime Times or Superstars and it and some other big Hogan match aired on a special episode. Watching the match, I thought it told a coherent, well structured story that was easy to follow. The ending was a bit sudden, but all things considered I thought it was definitely not a badly worked match. Guys did what they could, given the state of Andre at the time. Even with a healthier Andre, I doubt the story and the structure of the match would have changed dramatically, though. It did what it was supposed to do and kicked off another angle that kept the feud going for another year plus.

[S.K.o.S.]

2 hours ago, Robert S said:

I took me much longer (22 minutes), but same issue with the bottom left corner for me.

That's the exact spot I'd expect people would have trouble with. I was aware of it, like I know most people won't know that ROH name, but couldn't do much to make it easier.

[BloodyChamp]

I figured that wrestling training dialogue was minimal at first, similar to other kinds of training. It might be a goal to be a friend with your peers and superiors in that field, but it sure isn’t the first step in training somebody or being trained. 

Anyway I came to mention that when i went to YouTube to watch the Nick Patrick video yesterday, I clicked on another match afterwards which is something I almost never do. I only watch matches on YouTube that go to YouTube to watch to start with. To do all the jumping around cheats you out of getting the most out of the match IMO. But that match I watched was Buzz Sawyer vs Tommy Rich from WCWSN. I know Buzz was a trainwreck but he was an amazing talent. It’s as sad that so much of his talent was wasted as it is that he was con artist. This was a good match that I didn’t expect. I think I read a time or 2 that it was some sad postprime Tommy Rich match or something but this was solid. It might haven even beenTommy’s best match since the last time he was really hot years ago. 

 

[Raziel]

On 6/17/2023 at 3:06 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

I definitely get the gist of that, but if you're on a wrestling training show, what does your favorite wrestling match have to do with actually being trained? If you went to the Larry Sharpe's Monster Factory or went to Kowalski's school, I don't think they were quizzing you on your favorite matches. They most likely didn't give a shit. Your favorite match could Misawa vs. Kobashi from January 1997, and you could still suck ass in the ring. Matter of fact, I am pretty sure a good number of folks at the PC could give a solid answer and still not know to wrestle. 

 

I know for fact the first question Sharpe asked when you stepped into the Factory was "Heel or Face?", and if you had any other answer than Heel or Face you got grinded a little harder in your tryout.  After that they were glad to take your money.  Explaining it came later.

 

Now, if Danny Cage still asks that, I don't know...

Edited June 18, 2023 by Raziel

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Raziel said:

I know for fact the first question Sharpe asked when you stepped into the Factory was "Heel or Face?", and if you had any other answer than Heel or Face you got grinded a little harder in your tryout.  After that they were glad to take your money.  Explaining it came later.

 

Now, if Danny Cage still asks that, I don't know...

That's completely reasonable. Also, it's either/or. Both answers are correct. I mean if you say something other than the options given, I am not sure if you can be helped. It's been a minute since I took the ACT but I don't remember being allowed to add my own answer choices.

Now I'm interested in what the other answers might have been. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Now I'm interested in what the other answers might have been. 

Face in Canada, heel in America.

Face in Chicago, heel in the west, tweener everywhere else.

I am a heel but I keep acting like a face because it gets me more heel heat. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

44 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

Face in Canada, heel in America.

Face in Chicago, heel in the west, tweener everywhere else.

I am a heel but I keep acting like a face because it gets me more heel heat. 

I feel this is a question for a different generation clearly. In this era of folks who follow the teachings of one Cody Runnels, it's an invitation to their TED talk.

[Octopus]

As a 9 year old, this was the greatest match of all time:

Ken Shamrock was so cool. I hated Jeff Jarrett so much.

Then as a 13 year old is was Eddie Guerrero vs Rhyno vs Tajiri vs Chris Benoit at Summerslam 03 . I dipped out of wrestling (not allowed in the house after a failed attempt at a backflip but we sneak watched it) around 01ish. Such cool characters. I honestly don’t remember the exact match but it was wild with them all. Probably a tag match I stumbled on switching channels at my grandmas house.

Benoit winning the championship was a big moment for my fandom. I always pointed to him in my defense of pro wrestling being “fake”. His chops were real. He went hard. Then when what happened happened it really left me in a bad place. I still watched but I couldn’t defend it. 

Then around age 15ish I discovered Low Ki & Kenta kicking each other. I remember having friends over that didn’t like wrestling to huddle around my computer to watch it. They didn’t care for the obviously great early grappling, but when the double stomps and kicks started flowing, everyone loved it. Lead me to NOAH and a deeper world to discover. 

I fell out of love as life got busy and anxiety got worse. Dipped in and out to see former ROH favorites doing well in the WWE but would lose interest in the product. I didn’t really know as many of the Indy and TNA was becoming less Samoa Joe and more Hogan and older WWF/WCW guys. Real or not, that was the perception.

My gf at the time (now wife) was watching Total Divas. And then this scene happened:

Rikishi no shows the wedding after saying he’d come. Pre-Bloodline USO’s creating a tear jerker moment. I cried! I’m back. WWE PPV’s can be seen on the subscription network? Ok, I’m back. Royal Rumble had some guy named Nakamura win it? He seems cool. A women’s rumble? Who is Asuka? Neat! I’m back!

I stumble back here after lurking in my youth remembering reading opinions on lucha and Japanese wrestling when I was younger. What the hey, I join. Hoping to deep dive wrestling the same way my obsessive wanting to learn more was the focal point of my twenties with the beauty of Cinema. Which wrestler will be my Tarkovsky? Will this be a fun return to casual enjoyment or an obsession? Are chops still neat? (Yes)

Although I’m not a Young Bucks guy or a big video game player, both BTE and UUDD was very enjoyable. And in weird ways, the ongoing storylines were some of the most enjoyable thing going. Cody vs Kenny (which I don’t know if we actually got a full blowoff but everyone is friends and they started a company) and Tyler Breeze’s heel run as UUDD champion (watch him brutalize the Miz after beating him. It was so Hilarious!).

AEW came at the right time in my life. I’m really enjoying the past few years posting on here. The Hangman Saga was such great storytelling and fun use of subtle moments of body language in interviews. We got The You g Bucks vs Hangman & Omega which I still love. Then Danielson, my GOAT, shows up and even with the company’s faults has become my favorite time watching wrestling. I have Danielson vs MJF in my all time top 3 (maybe broaden it to 10 if I’m in need of wiggle room). 

I love modern NOAH. Give me wild Nakajima kicks!

I also love going back and watching things I’ve never seen. Discovery is beautiful. Funk vs Onita, Hokuto vs Shinobu, Bockwinkel vs Lawler, Negro Casas vs Hijo Del Santo, etc. Just a month or so ago I watched Devil Masami vs Chigusa Nagayo and it was the perfect example of what I love about wrestling. I love Daisuke Sekimoto and Yuji Okabayashi grappling. 

RAMBLE CONTINUES AND LEFT PURPOSE MAYBE IM TIRED ON A COUCH

I have a soft spot for Kenta Kobashi’s title run. His knees are bad but he’ll chop the hell out of you and it will be beautiful. I go back to his title run and Danielson’s ROH run. 

Something something

I’m glad we’re getting great Samoa Joe matches in AEW. I felt his WWE promos were fantastic and arguably the best in his career but he couldn’t display the same level of brutality or at least part of his aura was stripped away. He terrorizes AJ Styles’ family and we get a regular match without the hatred that the feud lead up to. We should have gotten Joe vs Darby style wildness then. But alas, he is able to do that now. Saying all that, if he made more money and was happier there, then I’m sorry he got let go twice. Still, that’s crazy that SAMOA JOE was fired twice in a short amount of time. D-U-M dumb.

Ramble

What am I excited for in wrestling today?

CM Punk being back is neat. I always liked Punk but I LOVED his old man run. I like the layout of Collision and think it will be a good addition to the wild world of wrestling. Hopefully everyone can get along.

Someday I’ll get ROH subscription and watch Athena be awesome. 

Ramble END.

 

 

[John E. Dynamite]

Whatever happened to the traditional "Heel That Sells A Lot Of T-Shirts" vs. "Babyface Who Buries Everybody In Their Promos" dynamic?

Edited June 19, 2023 by John E. Dynamite

[Niners Fan in CT]

16 hours ago, tbarrie said:

I don't know if it's what you meant to imply, but suggesting that Andre-Hogan wasn't a "well worked match" strikes me as a much crazier opinion than having it as one's favourite match. It wasn't the specific style of match that the Meltzerites like to throw snowflakes at, but it was awesome. It was worked exactly how it should have been.

Not at all. It was "well worked" to me.  I meant the newsletter type of dudes likely think it sucks or it's "not for them" but I appreciate all styles of wrestling and what they were trying to accomplish and whether they succeeded or not. 

Shit, one of my favorite matches is Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior.  One may say, oh that's nostalgia talking. Oh, you were a little kid. No, that may play a part but those two delivered a hell of a match and I stand by that. I've seen it as recently as a couple months ago and it's holds up.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

13 hours ago, Shartnado said:

I watched the match again a year or two ago, when I watched either Prime Times or Superstars and it and some other big Hogan match aired on a special episode. Watching the match, I thought it told a coherent, well structured story that was easy to follow. The ending was a bit sudden, but all things considered I thought it was definitely not a badly worked match. Guys did what they could, given the state of Andre at the time. Even with a healthier Andre, I doubt the story and the structure of the match would have changed dramatically, though. It did what it was supposed to do and kicked off another angle that kept the feud going for another year plus.

I think "guys did what they could" is probably the best way to put it. Hogan at the time when he was wrestling televised matches on like SNME for example was having totally fine matches that were entertaining. He clearly had a template down for what he wanted to do especially if it was ten minutes or less. For this particular match, you're asking Hogan to break away from that template by going a little longer against someone who isn't as mobile as some of the guys Hogan had been working with. It was going to be a challenge. Outside of a really hideous looking, botched back body drop on the floor, it's totally the best you could expect from a Hogan and Andre match. You have to really judge it by 1987 standards. I don't think anyone watching that match in 1987 was looking for some Tiger Mask vs. Dynamite Kid graceful, well executed chain wrestling.

[Technico Support]

On the "these big guys are perfectly fine" tip: A while back, I was watching all WWF PPVs from the start and writing about them here (until I got tired of doing it).  One thing that really stood out was how many guys were actually competent-to-very-good workers.  80s WWF was my childhood.  Later, becoming "smarter" to the business via the internet, I was taught that all these big guys were subpar-working loads of shit.  But rewatching all this old stuff in my late 40s, with fresh, less biased eyes, so many of these big choads were actually good.  Like Hercules Hernandez wasn't going to set the world on fire, but he could hang with workers and not embarrass himself at all.

Ultimate Warrior being the only exception.  I'll never forget:

• Warrior/Rude 1: Wow, this is awful
• Warrior/Rude 2: Holy shit, Warrior learned to work!  This is good! 
• Warrior/Rude 3: Oh wait, scratch that.  He sucks.

Warrior/Rude 2 and Warrior/Hogan were Warrior's only good matches.  I'm in the minority, but I don't like the Mania 7 match with Savage; it was overlong and overbooked.

But anyway, yeah, check out some old stuff.  It's not as bad as you think you remember.

[Log]

1 minute ago, Technico Support said:

On the "these big guys are perfectly fine" tip: A while back, I was watching all WWF PPVs from the start and writing about them here (until I got tired of doing it).  One thing that really stood out was how many guys were actually competent-to-very-good workers.  80s WWF was my childhood.  Later, becoming "smarter" to the business via the internet, I was taught that all these big guys were subpar-working loads of shit.  But rewatching all this old stuff in my late 40s, with fresh, less biased eyes, so many of these big choads were actually good.  Like Hercules Hernandez wasn't going to set the world on fire, but he could hang with workers and not embarrass himself at all.

Ultimate Warrior being the only exception.  I'll never forget:

• Warrior/Rude 1: Wow, this is awful
• Warrior/Rude 2: Holy shit, Warrior learned to work!  This is good! 
• Warrior/Rude 3: Oh wait, scratch that.  He sucks.

Warrior/Rude 2 and Warrior/Hogan were Warrior's only good matches.  I'm in the minority, but I don't like the Mania 7 match with Savage; it was overlong and overbooked.

But anyway, yeah, check out some old stuff.  It's not as bad as you think you remember.

My son is very obsessed with Andre right now, so we've been watching some 80's WWF. He wanted to see a battle royal with Andre, so I played him the one from before WMIII on SNME where Andre eliminates Hogan. The craziest thing about it to me was that every single elimination bump looked super dangerous! Dudes were flying out of the ring at weird angles and hitting the apron and stuff. And not just one or two of them! Damn near every elimination made me wince.

[Elsalvajeloco]

That particular battle royal is what I think of when you imagine the lore around the Roy Shire battle royales. Just utter brutality. It also helps that Lanny Poffo bled a gusher.