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Dynamite - 1/19/2022


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20 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I don't know if there's still tickets but I was considering going to Rampage tomorrow since my schedule opened up.  But after seeing the crowds I'm not so sure.  Maybe with it being mostly matches it might work out better but I won't know how I'll feel until tomorrow.

That was probably the angriest most hostile crowd I can recall at an AEW show. Back when AEW knew there were states west of Texas, I observed that there were a few people too desperate to start chants but everyone seemed really happy to be there.

I wonder if it’s a regional thing or if the honeymoon is over and fans aren’t willing to put up with the meh shows in between ppvs and their event shows anymore.

Anyway, my Sling crashed so I missed the first half an hour or so but thought the show was decent. 

CM Punk squashing Spears was an unexpected and pleasant surprise. 

I liked Archer working more of a big man violent hoss style and not doing any of the high flying stuff but I think the match went on for too long when the outcome was obvious. Also, since they’re feeding him to Page him being more dominant would have probably served that match better.

The Kings of the Black throne look like an interesting tag team, I’ll be interested to see them in a more competitive match. The Pac promo was okay but the reveal and challenge happening on video was kind of underwhelming.

I thought the main event was a pretty fun match. Welcome to the black parade, bitch legitimately made me lol. The Acclaimed have good comedic timing.

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2 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

When The Elite were making waves around the world, Cody was the odd man out. Kenny, the Bucks, the then-aligned Kota Ibushi, even Marty Scurll were all considered to be Meltzer-approved workrate geniuses, standard bearers of a new style of wrestling. Cody was putting together three-star matches and relying on storytelling techniques and heel tactics that read waaay more WWE than anybody else in the group. This was referenced plenty, particularly when Cody was trying to split up Bullet Club and feuding with IWGP Champ Kenny.

However, when AEW was being founded, Cody was viewed as a boon because he was a legitimizing presence. He could sweet-talk the network. He looked and sounded professional, his family and ex-WWE credentials were viewed as a means to court casual fans when the only other mainstream stars were older guys like Jericho and JR. As the AEW roster has grown, Cody's early advantages are diluted by every big-deal ex-WWE signing, see: last night's CM Punk-based inferiority complex

The main reason people are turned on Cody was... ok, let's be honest, it's the neck tattoo. And what that neck tattoo symbolizes is that Cody possesses unique, visable characteristics that are fundamentally out of step with what AEW presents itself as. Nepotism involving his family members, politicking his way into title matches, getting to book himself in his own little world, the sheer self-importance of everything he's done, his style of wrestling, his being on a reality TV show - these are all things that the fanbase associates with WWE. They are, in many cases, the reasons for the problems that make AEW fans not watch WWE. If Cody can be all these things, if these WWE-like traits help Cody succeed, then, on some level, AEW is not the Eden the fans wish it to be. His shtick represents an existential threat to AEW's philosophy and identity. 

Perfect. Add in the tv shows in trying to become John Cena 2.0 in more than just the rise above hate shtick and you have a comprehensive detailing of where we are at. Omega called him the 3 star general. Killed me then and still makes me smile. 

He did shit on Punk and Brody King, but let's not also forget referring to Red Dragon as developmental too. This was absolutely a reverse Pillman "I may be on the way out, so I'm going to throw bombs" promo. But, because it is Cody, it's done in such a manufactured, manicured way that feels entirely disconnected from reality and lacked any rawness a "pipe bomb" would have. He's the kind of guy that says "I'm punk," when people who are "punk" would never say something so cringe. He's artificial, like the veneers he rocks (who referenced those in AEW? It's a nice piece of symbolism). Perhaps, a lot of this comes from the fact that his father was one of the most well known and divisive figures in modern wrestling history. He was put in positions to succeed because of that and still had to put in work, which probably made him resentful towards the idea of being someone whose success comes from nepotism. It's like the question can rich people make great art? Do they know what suffering and toiling is or do they just try to synthesize it, recreating it from little pieces of discomfort they've endured? Juxtapose that with Moxley. Raw, unfiltered, pain. He wears his emotions on his sleeve. He was close to tears in the beginning. His first words were to tell a fan to go fuck himself (contrast that to Jericho's lame wwe manufactured GFY lol). 

If Omega is Vegeta to Ibushi's Goku, who is Cody to Moxley? 

Let me make it clear that i think losing Cody, which isn't likely happening, would be a huge hit to the company. He brings something different that only Jericho provides and is very talented. He is in a really fun and interesting place with his character and crowd reactions. He doesn't always connect but it's fun watching him nail it or miss, though his misses can be frustrating (Black had so much momentum after the two wins and then suddenly did not). As he sequestered himself in his Codyverse for so long, he has even more fresh matches than most people do. He and Moxley are complete opposites and i think it's the most intriguing of them all. 

Edited by Jiji
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59 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I wonder if it’s a regional thing or if the honeymoon is over and fans aren’t willing to put up with the meh shows in between ppvs and their event shows anymore.

I was wondering the same thing. They keep revisiting these markets on the east coast, refusing to hit up some of the untouched west coast cities and it feels like they've definitely hit the point of diminishing returns. I know they've mentioned they look at TV ratings per city when determining their touring schedule but it seems pretty flawed if they're running North Carolina three times in five weeks and doing some locations three times before hitting up California and the west coast once. 

The first year up until covid shut things down, fans would run through walls for the company and willed some pretty average matches up several notches with their passion and intensity. They were incredibly positive. I still think that's largely true but there have been some pretty typical wrestling crowds with negativity and lack of enthusiasm once they started hitting the road again and the initial "omg we are outta covid" (lol) phase wore off. 

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Moxley promo was the clear highlight of the show, great return and you weren't sure where the line between Pro Wrestling Promo and real life was.

Main event was typically good fun as we've come to expect from the Darby/Sting team. Sting's dive was fucking RAD

Nothing says 'warm a guy up for a World Title match' like a long match with fodder Kazarian. I didn't pay much attention to the match itself but woof who thought that was a good booking move.

House Of Black debut was pretty whatever, not particularly impressive, but I could see PAC vs Black being a good match if that's next on the docket.

After Spear's hot promo on Rampage I was sort of hoping for a good match between him and Punk, but I'll take the surprise squash to move the angle along. If they are holding out on this until the next PPV, that's still a long way to go though.



Personally I thought the Cody promo was the drizzling shits. I am so over these rah rah rah AEW is great meta sermons. Also he was gone for like 2-3 weeks, did that really warrant an interim title to tide them over.

Jungle Express vs Gunn Clubb. Snooze. At least it gives JE another token win on the buckles.

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Nepotism involving his family members, politicking his way into title matches, getting to book himself in his own little world, the sheer self-importance of everything he's done

Change that from "family members" to "friends" and this could be describing some people's perception of so many foundational pieces of this company. Cody being the one guy getting hung out to dry for it here is wildly unfair.

I figured in the early days of AEW when he was having some of the best matches and angles going that people would realize the "three star Cody" thing was overblown and there's room for his style. But I guess we're back to him being a WWE guy and representing everything wrong with them when he hasn't been there in going on six years, which is funny because he wouldn't be getting away with nearly as much fun as he's managed to produce outside of that place. I wish we were beyond "stuff I don't like = WWE." Oh well. 

AEW was never an Eden, people were just starved for something and eager to see it that way. Cody's foundational to this company. Him getting to make his music his way is far from an "existential threat" to AEW's philosophy; to many people, it's essential that their big stars get that freedom. 

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This was the first time I've actually heard a Cody promo in AEW other the promos before and after the Dustin match, but there was plenty going on. At face value, I think I can see where he is going with this, but I can't really tell if he's trolololling or not. What I can tell, however, is the load of BS with the "I was talking about all of you!" Cut the crap, Cody! You weren't talking about me! You don't even KNOW me! I just got here!

This was a thrilling episode, even if the wrestling isn't exactly what I was expecting, considering the hype I keep reading each week. Plenty of good stuff story-wise, however.

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Cody vs. Punk would be a fine, fine use of both men. 

Anyway since Technico was listing lines above here are my favorites recorded in the Discord chat: 

"I'm sorry you had to see that, Tony." - from whoever was sitting in on the mixed tag when Britt and Cole kissed... was it Starks? 

"You're probably like Clint Eastwood, allergic to horses." - Jake to Wangman

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1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Change that from "family members" to "friends" and this could be describing some people's perception of so many foundational pieces of this company. Cody being the one guy getting hung out to dry for it here is wildly unfair.

I figured in the early days of AEW when he was having some of the best matches and angles going that people would realize the "three star Cody" thing was overblown and there's room for his style. But I guess we're back to him being a WWE guy and representing everything wrong with them when he hasn't been there in going on six years, which is funny because he wouldn't be getting away with nearly as much fun as he's managed to produce outside of that place. I wish we were beyond "stuff I don't like = WWE." Oh well. 

AEW was never an Eden, people were just starved for something and eager to see it that way. Cody's foundational to this company. Him getting to make his music his way is far from an "existential threat" to AEW's philosophy; to many people, it's essential that their big stars get that freedom. 

I think you missed the point, the question I was trying to answer wasn't "what is factually true about Cody that makes fans boo him" but rather "what do fans perceive".  Booing somebody is a feeling. Arguments that Cody is a pampered prince or an "existential threat" can have holes poked in them, but that's the gut feeling that the majority of the fans have.

This is also a potentially great thing for everybody. What Cody possesses might be theee single most elusive, sought-after thing in the entire wrestling industry right now. Legitimate, organic, non-go away heat as a main-event level wrestler in a post-kayfabe landscape. And if he didn't legitimately make the AEW audience uncomfortable with what I discussed above, he wouldn't have it. I believe he should be the top heel in AEW soon, and for a long time. I'd go so far as to say I think he should beat Page 

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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God, I hope OC wins next week. He needs a win. Never got the Adam Cole hype with his weird looking eyes. It’s like some accidentally messed with the eye sliders in character creation.

The thought of Gargano potentially signing with AEW annoys me. 

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5 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

I think you missed the point, the question I was trying to answer wasn't "what is factually true about Cody that makes fans boo him" but rather "what do fans perceive".  Booing somebody is a feeling. Arguments that Cody is a pampered prince or an "existential threat" can have holes poked in them, but that's the gut feeling that the majority of the fans have.

This is also a potentially great thing for everybody. What Cody possesses right now might be theee single most elusive, sought-after thing in the entire wrestling industry right now. Legitimate, organic, non-go away heat as a main-event level wrestler in a post-kayfabe landscape. And if he didn't legitimately make the AEW audience uncomfortable with what I discussed above, he wouldn't have it. I believe he should be the top heel in AEW soon, and for a long time. I'd go so far as to say I think he should beat Page 

I agree with you largely about the perception. I'm merely throwing my two cents in there because I see a lot of likes on your post, and I wanted to buck back against the wrong-thinking among us who might perceive him the way you've illustrated. 

I don't know if TK has the stomach to make Cody the top heel in the way he ought to. As you said, Cody makes people feel uncomfortable -- because they don't know where the work stops and the real ego and hubris begins and everyone has to know everything. This company has been so eager to please and self-conscious about how everyone needs to be pleased all the time and all the villains have had a good degree of play along heat because most of the audience unambiguously likes those performers. I think the guy in charge might worry about Jarrett or Hunter comparisons turning some fans off if he really went for it with Cody. I'm honestly surprised and impressed he's allowed this to carry on to this point. It's the most confident booking he's done in his short time in the business. 

But of course this discussion is all moot. Cody can't challenge Page. 😞 

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4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Someone please tell Chris Justformen to stop trying to make "GFY" happen.  

It's especially dorky considering the first words out of a wrestler's mouth on this very show were "Hey go fuck yourself"

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

With me, it's not that Cody's got the stink of being a WWE guy. Absolute power corrupted him. That simple. 

I feel like both Cody and Jericho were excited to get the freedom to do what they want outside of being micromanaged in WWE, but then just used that freedom to do very WWE things.  Probably just an "old habits die hard" thing with them.  But, its especially glaring when you see guys like Moxley and Danielson who are using that freedom to do something different.

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So Monday there will be a news story featuring some WWE talking head pearl-clutching about "the brazen profanity on the January 19 edition of a competitor's programming"?

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16 hours ago, Infinit said:

Darby having fun in traffic after the show

The fact that Darby and Sting are travel buddies warms my heart. 

Darby(?)'s "woo woo woo woo!" like Curly as he runs off was the best.

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7 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I immediately thought of the scene in Casino where they bring the cheaters into the backroom, lol.  Just have that dude brought into a room with Mox.

 

Not even Mox, Eddie. 

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What kills me is that Cody is an amazing babyface.  At the start of AEW, when he went after the Inner Circle and punched out that window?  TREMENDOUS. 

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

As you said, Cody makes people feel uncomfortable -- because they don't know where the work stops and the real ego and hubris begins and everyone has to know everything.

I don't think that's the case for all Cody's detractors.  Personally, I'm more in tune with @Logwho said Cody has all this creative control and he's just using it to do very WWE things.  It's not that he's working a vague gimmick; it's that he typically comes across like he's playing to an audience of one and only amusing that person (himself) and doesn't really care.  His act doesn't gel with the rest of the company.  I feel like Cody was really hurt by WWE's rejection of him and he's going to spend the rest of his career working this meta notice me senpai shit instead of just letting it all go and being the amazing babyface he can be.  Wrestling is simple and acting like Cody is some genius for blurring the lines is like touting the genius of Vince Russo, who did the same thing.  Being all worky shooty and vague in his alignment just for the sake of being different doesn't make Cody special.

It's sad that Cody shot for Dusty or Sting but landed on 2000s Jeff Jarrett.

Edited by Technico Support
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5 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

I enjoyed the Cody promo. I understand it is a thing where the fanbase soured on him. However, I don't 100% understand what is going on or why it happened. 

Performers like Cody and Bucks deserve all of the credit in the world for creating a ton of buzz and that buzz culminating in the creation of AEW.  But I wasn't part of that groundswell. I was never seeking out Bullet Club footage or watching Being the Elite. I'm a johnny come lately. Someone who jumped on the bandwagon once AEW started to regularly producing quality matches. And the Punk/Danielson signings were just the cherry on top. So I'm a little out of the loop. 

Do we have any diehard AEW fans on the board who can breakdown what is going on?

 

The Cody hate comes from both his natural confident charisma and his desire to be a traditional babyface.  All while ppl assume (they actually know the guy and that) he's an ego maniacal monster on the level of early oughts Helmsley, his pops, or past prime Hogan.  The evidence is weak.  There is much better evidence to suggest he's actually the opposite.  His intent on remaining babyface while the vocal portion of the audience fights to turn him heel is what has pushed ppl over the edge.  

It's interesting seeing all the personal opinions on the matter in here.  I've found this whole run fascinating.  I also loved the promo last night.  To me that was the grey area he needed to better embrace.  And man do I ever look forward to the inevitable Punk feud.  The connection ppl seem to feel to their Opinons on Cody is the most passionate thing in wrestling right now.    

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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Let’s do some long-term booking TK: 

Brody King squashes Reynolds (with -1)

Spoiler

C4-BFE4-E1-2-DDD-4660-96-E1-668-FA974-A0

Brody King squashes Ten (with -1) 

Spoiler

169-DB228-14-A3-40-BC-B783-81944-AE85866

-1 joins The House of Black

Spoiler

8-BD0-D28-A-A34-F-445-D-88-A7-59-A5-B4-F

-1 betrays King and Black, merges HoB into Dark Order, and takes his place as The Exalted One.

Spoiler

84-E07-E1-A-099-B-4-BCF-9-B72-B0-E7-EB5-

 

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50 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I don't think that's the case for all Cody's detractors.  Personally, I'm more in tune with @Logwho said Cody has all this creative control and he's just using it to do very WWE things.  It's not that he's working a vague gimmick; it's that he typically comes across like he's playing to an audience of one and only amusing that person (himself) and doesn't really care.  His act doesn't gel with the rest of the company.

There's one booker and he's made it clear that if he thinks something isn't working, he'll change it. Cody gets a say in how he uses his voice, but it clearly wouldn't have gotten this far if he's only been playing to an audience of one. To some degree, Tony sees the vision and has confidence in it. In as much as Tony sees it and allows it to continue, it gels with the company. 

Quote

I feel like Cody was really hurt by WWE's rejection of him and he's going to spend the rest of his career working this meta notice me senpai shit instead of just letting it all go and being the amazing babyface he can be.  Wrestling is simple and acting like Cody is some genius for blurring the lines is like touting the genius of Vince Russo, who did the same thing.  Being all worky shooty and vague in his alignment just for the sake of being different doesn't make Cody special.

That's some fine psychoanalysis. But I don't see it. He enjoys winking at an audience that's eager to see him as hyper-political when it comes to his spot, but in all interviews I've listened to he seems very at peace with his time in WWE and his decision to move on (yes, he rejected them; he could be in a flourishing tag team with Bobby Roode right now if he was so inclined). There's nothing vague about his alignment, he's been pretty clear about his aspirations: He wants to be a star, and stars get to work with anyone so long as the people are making noise. 

As for "worky shooty" talk, I think we're wrongly maligning Cody on that front. The biggest star in this company reached the peak of his success by fully embracing "worky shooty." There's a place for it, people want some lines blurred, and it's disingenuous to suggest that anyone playing with that line is going Full Russo. 

Furthermore, I see people discuss time and time again about how AEW's audience doesn't need to be talked down to or have things over-explained. Don't worry about the "casuals" that don't exist, cater to the existing audience, of course their core audience knows who Minoru Suzuki is, etc. Well if they're playing to the audience they have, which is a VERY online one, I struggle to see how invoking the concept of a "heel turn" is some forbidden line. People who've seen wrestling have often seen once-virtuous figures turn into seemingly villainous people. They know this a thing that happens, and people perceive such a change and Cody and are rejecting him. Is it all too "shooty" to address what everyone is thinking and insist that he is who he is and he's not going to change for anyone? I've seen and heard the term "heel turn" used outside of wrestling contexts, is it really that bad to acknowledge it in the terms most anybody would? Cody Rhodes the character has met plenty of people who turned heel, and he doesn't think you're too stupid to speak to you in those terms. Cody's doing what most AEW fans I've encountered seem to want: He's not treating them like they're stupid, he's respecting their intelligence, and he's not pandering to filthy casuals. He's doing it the way they think is right. Everything he's doing is deeply in the spirit of this company. 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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