December 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[zendragon]

9 hours ago, AxB said:

 

Honestly I was not prepared for this

[BrianS81177]

God damn. If you're not in tears by the end of that then you have something wrong with you emotionally. 

[SirSmUgly]

From the review for the movie Rumble at AVClub:

Quote

Despite being produced by the WWE, Rumble is a wrestling picture for children that feels profoundly confused about why, how, or if anyone enjoys wrestling.

Change the "Despite being" to "because it was" and you have the encapsulation of the whole company.

 

[The Natural]

 

Newly added to YouTube.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

 

[kafkonia]

Could a promotion work with a "regular season and playoffs" structure, rather than one where the championship is held and defended? Or would that be too hard to book long term?

[odessasteps]

Prob doable on paper, but I’d think injuries would be a tough hurdle to overcome. 

[Brandon Bones]

21 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

a couple of tributes to Jimmy Rave

 

*throws toilet paper in his honor*

[Go2Sleep]

26 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

Could a promotion work with a "regular season and playoffs" structure, rather than one where the championship is held and defended? Or would that be too hard to book long term?

I'd like to see a World Cup structure with some cooperation from the non-WWE promotions.

[paintedbynumbers]

19 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I'd like to see a World Cup structure with some cooperation from the non-WWE promotions.

would be interesting.  With house shows dwindling down it makes it more possible. In the past it was important to have the world champion at most if not all shows (after 1991-1992 or so)  Looking at WWE's lineups now it seems most champs do work all house shows.  Buying a ticket to a show to see a huge star only to find out they aren't there is the fastest way to kill a town. WCW did this a lot in 1998-1999. Tons of no shows.

If you have a season type of thing it would be important to stack each show so that fans could see the stars they want to see. If you have a playoff structure I would still want the champion to at least appear on each show. 

[supremebve]

27 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

I'd like to see a World Cup structure with some cooperation from the non-WWE promotions.

I'd settle for an American promotion that did an annual Round Robin like the G1. AEW could do a great one with the recent/ rumored additions. If nothing else you get to see who has good in ring chemistry,  and separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to who can really work at the highest level. I don't think it will ever happen,  but they are at the point that they have more talent than television time, and a round Robin would allow them to get everyone on TV regularly without having to have a storyline for all of them. 

[Curt McGirt]

It might work if they had a separate show to just do a tourney. Cutting into the regular time is something they've been doing with the TBS title and I think doing something that big might squeeze out the angles they've already got going on the main shows. 

[Jenalysis]

1 hour ago, kafkonia said:

Could a promotion work with a "regular season and playoffs" structure, rather than one where the championship is held and defended? Or would that be too hard to book long term?

 

Bound for Glory on a larger scale?  Team Challenge Series?

 

[supremebve]

8 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

It might work if they had a separate show to just do a tourney. Cutting into the regular time is something they've been doing with the TBS title and I think doing something that big might squeeze out the angles they've already got going on the main shows. 

It would have to be after a big show where all the angles have ended. It think it could work,  but it would be a huge risk. It's not how American wrestling fans are conditioned to watch wrestling. 

[Cobra Commander]

4 hours ago, kafkonia said:

Could a promotion work with a "regular season and playoffs" structure, rather than one where the championship is held and defended? Or would that be too hard to book long term?

I'd think that you could only run a Champions Carnival or Basho format so many times in a year before it sorta gets old in a wrestling setting

[worldcupfever]

6 hours ago, alstein said:

 

Bound for Glory on a larger scale?  Team Challenge Series?

 

GIVE ME MORE TEAM CHALLENGE SERIES

[Cobra Commander]

You know what was a bad gimmick that was ahead of it's time? The York Foundation

Nowadays it could be a bad gimmick where they use "analytics" to say their wrestler will win within a certain time period. Plus the manager could use an actual tablet or laptop instead of a secretary office keyboard that obviously isn't a computer.

A "totally not an iPad" tablet has potential as a foreign object that wouldn't cost too much money once it breaks.

[Gordi the BJW fan]

Hey! @Phil Schneider got an article published on The Ringer! 

Unsurprisingly, it's really good, too:

https://www.theringer.com/2021/12/14/22832728/ring-of-honor-roh-wrestling-best-matches

One crazy thought that struck me while reading that:

Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi seems like a pretty recent match to me. Jumbo vs Tenryu '89 seems like ancient history. 

 

Yet, the distance (in time) between Jumbo vs Tenryu and Joe vs Kobashi (16 years) is essentially the same as the distance between Joe vs Kobashi and right now. 

[Dog]

Is it weird that my memory says no one here liked ROH during its actual heyday? Like, mid-2000s. I feel like everyone thought it was too spotty at the time, but came around on it after the fact.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Dog

[DJ Hero Morganti]

A random post about Mick Foley reminded me of a point of comparison i wanted to make about said Mick Foley being the absolute best at getting wwf(e) pretty boys into mother fucking men.  Hbk, orton, edge, hhh, and the rock along with to a lesser extent Austin and taker.  He got all those dudes to the next level and that's honestly what modern wwe is missing.  There isn't anyone like him to play true gatekeeper.

[supremebve]

4 hours ago, Morganti said:

A random post about Mick Foley reminded me of a point of comparison i wanted to make about said Mick Foley being the absolute best at getting wwf(e) pretty boys into mother fucking men.  Hbk, orton, edge, hhh, and the rock along with to a lesser extent Austin and taker.  He got all those dudes to the next level and that's honestly what modern wwe is missing.  There isn't anyone like him to play true gatekeeper.

Every time I hear someone call Vince McMahon a genius i think about how he stumbled into Austin, The Rock,  and Foley at essentially the same time and suggested Chilly McFreeze, The Blue Chipper, and Mason The Mutilator.  His biggest success as a promoter came with Hogan,  Savage,  Austin,  The Rock,  and Foley at the top of the card. I honestly believe that Austin and The Rock are the two best talents the sport has ever seen. Flair, Savage, and Hogan, are in the conversation, but so is Foley. 

Foley's ability to go from projecting menace to gaining sympathy is the best of all time. I can't think of anyone who could legitimately make you feel like something dangerous was about to happen like Cactus Jack and early Mankind. He was the most convincing,  "crazy man" character ever. Then for him to turn it around and become the sock puppet wearing weirdo without losing a bit of credibility with the audience was masterful. I remember when he retired after the HHH match and I reading something online and the writer, I wish I remembered who said something to the effect of,  "I've loved wrestling my entire life, but I'm pretty sure Mick Foley is only wrestler I ever legitimately loved." He was a transcendent talent, one of the few who ever felt like he reached his absolute peak of potential. He just happened to have play 3rd banana to the two most transcendent talents the sport has ever seen.

[ChesterCopperpot]

KO has re-signed with WWE per SRS 

[John from Cincinnati]

Spoiler

 

[Jiji]

33 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

KO has re-signed with WWE per SRS 

Ah fuck. I can't believe he's done this. 

[Go2Sleep]

10 hours ago, Morganti said:

A random post about Mick Foley reminded me of a point of comparison i wanted to make about said Mick Foley being the absolute best at getting wwf(e) pretty boys into mother fucking men.  Hbk, orton, edge, hhh, and the rock along with to a lesser extent Austin and taker.  He got all those dudes to the next level and that's honestly what modern wwe is missing.  There isn't anyone like him to play true gatekeeper.

Foley was the all time best at making someone look like a killer, but his secret was just doing absolutely insane self-destructive bumps no one else would do. Not just the big spectacle stuff like going off the cell, but the more "mundane" things like taking chair shots to the head, doing back bumps off the apron on to the unpadded floor, ramming his knees into the steps, letting guys potato him constantly (that Vader match ), etc. Not to say he wasn't an all-time talent, since knowing how to deploy those bumps effectively takes skill, and his promo ability was top-notch for generating interest in the matches, but the main thing was the willingness to visibly and spectacularly destroy his body for the business.

There's no one like him today for a lot or reasons. No blood, no one getting to hone their own character as much, but also a big part is probably guys looking at how Foley looks now and going "uh, no thanks." Ambrose was the closest they got.