The Natural Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 Hot takes: Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels was the 2008 Feud of the Year. However the ladder match at WWE No Mercy 2008 is overrated. I'd say Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy and The Undertaker vs. The Big Show on the same show were better. The best match of the series was Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels at the WWE The Great American Bash 2008. Think it might be the best Jericho/Michaels match.
J.H. Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 13 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said: 30+ years later and the "who has the best entrance theme/what's the best wrestler theme song?" discussion still begins and ends with Warrior. Sorry. My favorite remains Liger. "Ikari No Jushin" plays and that Japanese crowd popped. I meam it wasn't Kerry Von Wrich kissing girls on the aisle as "Tom Sawyer" played but it was still awesome! James 1
just drew Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 To address the post about Santino; the crazy thing is that early on in his career, MArella wanted to be presented as an ultra-serious MMA gimmick. Cornette famously slapped the shit out of him for not selling being scared of the Boogeyman in OVW. To go from that to that rap about William Regal in front of Akon... truly remarkable.
Curt McGirt Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 Santino absolutely should have stretched Jimmy. 3
Technico Support Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 49 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: Santino absolutely should have stretched Jimmy. Seriously. Assaulting someone who will lose their job, and possibly career, if they defend themself, is some cowardly shit. 1
Curt McGirt Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 I know, I wasn't being that serious... but I mean, who hasn't wanted to stretch Jimmy? But Jimmy should have been fired, no matter if he was running OVW or not. But this is wrestling. 2
Curt McGirt Posted December 15, 2024 Posted December 15, 2024 *looks up* This is a HOT TAKES thread too I guess, so...
AxB Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said: I know, I wasn't being that serious... but I mean, who hasn't wanted to stretch Jimmy? A Banana, but it was forced to anyway. 1
odessasteps Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 Prob hard to fire the guy who owns half the company. Cancel the developmental deal? Yes.
The Great ML Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 One of the most fun matches you’ve never seen…the first Primetime Wrestling of 1988 has a Lord Littlebrook and Cowboy Lang match from Paris France. Go watch it. Littlebrook was amazing. 1
Curt McGirt Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 I do not understand the banana joke at all Oooo, also, I did not know he owned half of Ohio Valley. Wonder if he ever broke even, lost money, what.
assfax Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 He broke even, lost money got a modicum of pussy and everything inbetween. No research.
zendragon Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 On 12/12/2024 at 2:45 PM, A.M.B. said: I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. We simply don't have a shortage of the latter and I find the former in high demand nowadays. IE I'll watch anything Outrunners but skip a lot of Ricochet. Like previously I said I find Will Ospreay lazy, not in his physicality, but in his match layout. Cool, you had a great match with apron bumps, reverseranas on the floor, dives, and double downs. I've seen it a bunch and I know what to expect at this point. Watching joshi wrestlers make a 2 count match entertaining is impressive to me. Orange Cassidy getting a body slam over as a finish is great wrestling to me now. True creativity comes from limitation, not from maximalism. Show me an awesome match where you only have a couple nearfalls and keep it mostly in the ring, and the crowd is still hot for the next match. That's what moves me now. There is a time and place for a classic, and we have more than enough. Obviously I love Dustin Rhodes and William Regal in ring, but to me what took them to the next level was their character work, not their wrestling skills. Those were added bonuses. I'd love to see more wrestlers challenged with taking on a novelty gimmick and actually getting it over, rather than just relying on great matches to get them over. Come to think of it you know who's really good at this? Chelsea Green 1
Ramo2653 Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 I know it's NXT but Andre Chase is great at it as well. In a perfect world, Chase would just stay down there and you'd cycle new guys in as "students" and graduate them when called up to the main roster (and it allows you to reset those guys since you can't do college student wrestler with no school affiliation as a gimmick) but "pro wrestling Mr. Belding/Mr. Feeney" probably isn't a viable gimmick. 2
Curt McGirt Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 (edited) Oh god the OVW period is where the hot-tub shit went down, isn't it? Is that where the banana joke comes in? Edited December 16, 2024 by Curt McGirt
supremebve Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 6 hours ago, zendragon said: Come to think of it you know who's really good at this? Chelsea Green I agree with this. When they first brought her in, they brought her in as "hot chick," and I remember telling my friend that it was a terrible idea to have a hot chick character on a roster that includes the rainbow coalition of hot chicks. Her ability to be goofy actually made it work. They put her in a role that should have made it impossible to distinguish herself from the crowd, but she clearly had a feel for how to make the character unique. She's probably the best mid-card level character they have in the women's division. Almost everyone else is floundering or trying to be champion. 2
SirSmUgly Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 On 12/12/2024 at 10:45 PM, A.M.B. said: I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. We simply don't have a shortage of the latter and I find the former in high demand nowadays. IE I'll watch anything Outrunners but skip a lot of Ricochet. Like previously I said I find Will Ospreay lazy, not in his physicality, but in his match layout. Cool, you had a great match with apron bumps, reverseranas on the floor, dives, and double downs. I've seen it a bunch and I know what to expect at this point. Watching joshi wrestlers make a 2 count match entertaining is impressive to me. Orange Cassidy getting a body slam over as a finish is great wrestling to me now. True creativity comes from limitation, not from maximalism. Show me an awesome match where you only have a couple nearfalls and keep it mostly in the ring, and the crowd is still hot for the next match. That's what moves me now. There is a time and place for a classic, and we have more than enough. Obviously I love Dustin Rhodes and William Regal in ring, but to me what took them to the next level was their character work, not their wrestling skills. Those were added bonuses. I'd love to see more wrestlers challenged with taking on a novelty gimmick and actually getting it over, rather than just relying on great matches to get them over. Mick Foley's argument that, as a traditional Barnum and Bailey show will have acrobats, lion tamers, clowns, etc., so that every attendee will like at least one of the acts they see is my biggest complaint about modern wrestling shows. If almost everyone is trying to have a fiver-star match, that's a major issue. If almost everyone is trying to have the same type of five star match because they are beholden to someone's extremely narrow view of what makes good wrestling - whether Papa H's or Dave Meltzer's - that's the slow death of the art form, IMO. 4
J.H. Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 But there are things you expect a wrestler to do, the trick is making the crowd anticipate it so when it happens the pop for it "earned". The best example I can think of is Rick Rude. You know he's gonna get atomic dropped and do the Rick Rude Atomic Drop sell. But Rude never just did that sell to start, he made the crowd wait for it so the babyface could earn that crazy pop. Damn, Rude was kind of a genius in switching from the middle portion of a match to the start of a finishing segment. Christ, I miss Rick Rude James 5
cwoy2j Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 On 12/14/2024 at 1:12 AM, BobbyWhioux said: 30+ years later and the "who has the best entrance theme/what's the best wrestler theme song?" discussion still begins and ends with Warrior. Sorry. Sorry but Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin strutting down the aisle with all of the sequins like a peacock drunk on Jack Daniels to "Sharp Dressed Man" while Precious sprays the entire ring with air freshener is the king for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLF1yIT5J-M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQE2mQUywQ 3
Matt D Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 10 minutes ago, cwoy2j said: Sorry but Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin strutting down the aisle with all of the sequins like a peacock drunk on Jack Daniels to "Sharp Dressed Man" while Precious sprays the entire ring with air freshener is the king for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLF1yIT5J-M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvQE2mQUywQ I've been telling anyone willing to listen that I want Ricochet and Samantha to be doing that a year from now. Save that guy's career. 4
cwoy2j Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 1 minute ago, Matt D said: I've been telling anyone willing to listen that I want Ricochet and Samantha to be doing that a year from now. Save that guy's career. You know Tony Khan would pony up the money for the rights to Sharp Dressed Man. 3
Matt D Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 (edited) 17 hours ago, The Great ML said: One of the most fun matches you’ve never seen…the first Primetime Wrestling of 1988 has a Lord Littlebrook and Cowboy Lang match from Paris France. Go watch it. Littlebrook was amazing. Versatile too. He works basically a straight NWA title match in 75 here. Edited December 16, 2024 by Matt D 2
cwoy2j Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 2 minutes ago, Matt D said: Versatile too. He works basically a straight NWA title match in 75 here. It's wild because most of the time, you think of little people matches as comedy but most of them were actually great workers. I remember going down a Cowboy Lang rabbit hole a long time ago after reading Bret Hart's autobiography where he described Cowboy as being a great wrestler who could actually put on fantastic matches when he got the chance but most of the times promoters just wanted "midget comedy". Lang was pretty fantastic. 4
supremebve Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 33 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said: If almost everyone is trying to have the same type of five star match because they are beholden to someone's extremely narrow view of what makes good wrestling - whether Papa H's or Dave Meltzer's - that's the slow death of the art form, IMO. This is it for me. We don't have a Foley or a Vader or a Stan Hansen who can have a five star match, but do it in a way that isn't the same as every other match on the card. When wrestling is at its best, you might have a crazy person like Cactus Jack in the main event for a while, then replace him with a giant like Vader, or a bruiser like Hansen, and after that Rey Mysterio Jr. has his run at the top of the card. The problem isn't everyone trying to put on great matches, but the fact that everyone has decided that there is only one way to put on a great match. The best wrestlers can kick ass on top, sell on the bottom, brawl, or do a bunch of other shit to keep the audience entertained. The issue is the homogeny not the quality. 5
J.H. Posted December 16, 2024 Posted December 16, 2024 (edited) Hell there are guys I wait for their stooging. Terry Funk, Arn Anderson and even Hansen. Hansen would stooge with the wobbly legs and blindly throwing lunches and then his frustration would lead to blindly thrown lariat that hits and pops that Japanese crowd! But Hansen made the crowd EARN that moment and it paid off for Hansen and the crowd he was doing it for. I do not get those vibes from guys in AEW. The matches don't have those "earned moments", those little things that end in key moments. Of course I might be full of shit and just a cranky old man/jaded wrestling fan James Edited December 16, 2024 by J.H. 2
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