odessasteps Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 10 minutes ago, benj said: 1980's wrestling discussion : Jim Cornette : All-In Any other topic : Jim Cornette : All-Out Wrestling wise, yes. I’d also include old school popular culture like TV shows and comic books.
AxB Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 Apparently in the 1980s, Jim Cornette was widely disliked in whatever locker room he was in, because he kept going on long ranting diatribes about how wrestling wasn't as good as it used to be (in the 1970s).
stuntmanc Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 14 hours ago, No Point Stance said: I can't agree with this. I can honestly understand why people wouldn't agree with my take. While i respect what he did for wrestling as a whole, i can't gloss pass the fact that 99% of the most toxic, fun sucking wrestling fans are admitted card carrying members of his "cult", which he feeds into. 3 2
Go2Sleep Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 On 11/20/2024 at 9:13 PM, SirSmUgly said: Disco's 1997 is one of the three best things WCW did that whole year. There, there's a hot take. It's so hot that I hope I can use it to somehow charge my phone during this power outage. Disco's match with Jackie was one of the three worst things in 1997 WCW. I think Disco was a guy who could get a great one-off match against a strong opponent precisely because he was a joke 99% of the time. They pulled it off with Malenko and Saturn as guys he could garner sympathy against because they were able to push the ass-kicking he usually deserved into hard-to-watch territory. No one actually wanted Disco to win a bunch, nor did he have the chops to evolve his character into a serious midcard act, but he could pull off the sympathetic goof to great effect on occasion. 1
A.M.B. Posted December 12, 2024 Author Posted December 12, 2024 I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. We simply don't have a shortage of the latter and I find the former in high demand nowadays. IE I'll watch anything Outrunners but skip a lot of Ricochet. Like previously I said I find Will Ospreay lazy, not in his physicality, but in his match layout. Cool, you had a great match with apron bumps, reverseranas on the floor, dives, and double downs. I've seen it a bunch and I know what to expect at this point. Watching joshi wrestlers make a 2 count match entertaining is impressive to me. Orange Cassidy getting a body slam over as a finish is great wrestling to me now. True creativity comes from limitation, not from maximalism. Show me an awesome match where you only have a couple nearfalls and keep it mostly in the ring, and the crowd is still hot for the next match. That's what moves me now. There is a time and place for a classic, and we have more than enough. Obviously I love Dustin Rhodes and William Regal in ring, but to me what took them to the next level was their character work, not their wrestling skills. Those were added bonuses. I'd love to see more wrestlers challenged with taking on a novelty gimmick and actually getting it over, rather than just relying on great matches to get them over. 4 1
Technico Support Posted December 12, 2024 Posted December 12, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, A.M.B. said: I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. We simply don't have a shortage of the latter and I find the former in high demand nowadays. IE I'll watch anything Outrunners but skip a lot of Ricochet. Like previously I said I find Will Ospreay lazy, not in his physicality, but in his match layout. Cool, you had a great match with apron bumps, reverseranas on the floor, dives, and double downs. I've seen it a bunch and I know what to expect at this point. Watching joshi wrestlers make a 2 count match entertaining is impressive to me. Orange Cassidy getting a body slam over as a finish is great wrestling to me now. True creativity comes from limitation, not from maximalism. Show me an awesome match where you only have a couple nearfalls and keep it mostly in the ring, and the crowd is still hot for the next match. That's what moves me now. There is a time and place for a classic, and we have more than enough. Obviously I love Dustin Rhodes and William Regal in ring, but to me what took them to the next level was their character work, not their wrestling skills. Those were added bonuses. I'd love to see more wrestlers challenged with taking on a novelty gimmick and actually getting it over, rather than just relying on great matches to get them over. What's awesome about wrestling is that you can like what you like. There are people here who enjoy the old wrestling art of getting the most out of doing the least, there are people here who like insane spotfests, and there are people who like every conceivable thing in between. In matters of taste, the customer is always right (that's the original phrasing of that expression). Edited December 12, 2024 by Technico Support 4
BobbyWhioux Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 Disco did The Chartbuster way crisper than Austin did The Stone Cold Stunner (the latter of which suffered greatly from it's own memeification, the KICKWHAM addendum, and Austin's cumulative injuries)
BobbyWhioux Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 Disco was at his best teaming up with Alex Wright to form the Boogie Knights (or The Dancin' Fools as certain philistines in WCW's broadcast booth insisted on slandering them) 2 1
A.M.B. Posted December 13, 2024 Author Posted December 13, 2024 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Technico Support said: What's awesome about wrestling is that you can like what you like. There are people here who enjoy the old wrestling art of getting the most out of doing the least, there are people here who like insane spotfests, and there are people who like every conceivable thing in between. In matters of taste, the customer is always right (that's the original phrasing of that expression). You're preaching to the choir, that post wasn't a condemnation of AEW or people who like Will Ospreay (I do). It's my hot take, because I know I'm the weird one, not AEW. AEW is tapped into the superfan, which I haven't been in over a decade. I got into indie wrestling through buying any ROH DVD that had Jack Evans jumping off a cage on it, and am now at a point where I just saw Tully vs. Magnum TA for the first time and enjoyed it more than anything I have seen on AEW or WWE in a while. So it's interesting to see where my tastes have gone, when I used to not be able to watch anything like pre-1995 because I wanted to see fancy offense. Though I would certainly would say I think a less is more attitude would have helped stave off the decline in AEW attendance, I obviously can't prove that. Edited December 13, 2024 by A.M.B. 1
odessasteps Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 50 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said: Disco was at his best teaming up with Alex Wright to form the Boogie Knights (or The Dancin' Fools as certain philistines in WCW's broadcast booth insisted on slandering them) And "Tokyo Magnum." 1 1
just drew Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 That angle Disco did with Konnan where he parodied Konnan's music video was 17*. Would've been 19 in the Tokyo Dome. 1 3
zendragon Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 There's also the growing realization that you are no longer necessarily the target audience and culture is not being made for you 5 1
odessasteps Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 4 minutes ago, zendragon said: There's also the growing realization that you are no longer necessarily the target audience and culture is not being made for you It's a sobering day when you are no longer in the 18-49 key demo anymore. 1
The Great ML Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 26 minutes ago, just drew said: That angle Disco did with Konnan where he parodied Konnan's music video was 17*. Would've been 19 in the Tokyo Dome. Oil of Olay, all day, everyday… 1 2
SirSmUgly Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 8 hours ago, Go2Sleep said: Disco's match with Jackie was one of the three worst things in 1997 WCW. Even if I didn't think this was a good match, and I do, it would get nowhere near a list of the very worst things in 1997 WCW. Quote I think Disco was a guy who could get a great one-off match against a strong opponent precisely because he was a joke 99% of the time. They pulled it off with Malenko and Saturn as guys he could garner sympathy against because they were able to push the ass-kicking he usually deserved into hard-to-watch territory. No one actually wanted Disco to win a bunch, nor did he have the chops to evolve his character into a serious midcard act, but he could pull off the sympathetic goof to great effect on occasion. The tape says that this isn't true; crowds were very behind Disco Inferno, fighting babyface.
BobbyWhioux Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 3 hours ago, odessasteps said: And "Tokyo Magnum." should have Freebirded their way to the tag belts, imo
zendragon Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 5 hours ago, odessasteps said: It's a sobering day when you are no longer in the 18-49 key demo anymore. I'm not even out of the demo yet 2
odessasteps Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 I've only got 6 months left in the 18-54 demo. 1
SirSmUgly Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 1 hour ago, zendragon said: I'm not even out of the demo yet I'm not either, but I was never a strong focus of the demo when I was young and in the demo, much less now. My next hot take is that the Fantastics and Fabs are clearly better tag teams than the Rock 'n Rolls with the asterisk that I will be focusing on the Rock 'n Rolls' SMW run next year to see how it bolsters their case. 3
J.H. Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 4 hours ago, SirSmUgly said: I'm not either, but I was never a strong focus of the demo when I was young and in the demo, much less now. My next hot take is that the Fantastics and Fabs are clearly better tag teams than the Rock 'n Rolls with the asterisk that I will be focusing on the Rock 'n Rolls' SMW run next year to see how it bolsters their case. Fantastics were like a more polished version of RnR. I subscribe to the DEAN~! take on the Fabs that Lane and Keirn were actually the prototypes for Cactus Jack in that they excelled at crazy blood-soaked brawls despite both being really good technical guys. James 2
odessasteps Posted December 13, 2024 Posted December 13, 2024 I'd say all three are different enough that none are copies of each other, style wise, just maybe gimmick wise. Now, when you get down to the RPMs and Stop n Go Express or S&S Express... 1
username Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 On 12/12/2024 at 5:45 PM, A.M.B. said: I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. This is a slightly different point/hot take I've said before, but related: it was much harder for WWE to try and find a replacement for Santino when he left than it was for Batista, despite one being a top level main eventer and the other being... Santino. Everyone wants to fill that top role and even if no one hit like him you could still recapture a solid 80% of what he offered just rotating through the various "top of the middle" guys until one clicked. Making comedy, especially that era of WWE comedy, work is much trickier with so many less people wanting to bother trying or just viewing it as a punishment/downgrade. 2
BobbyWhioux Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 On 12/12/2024 at 8:09 PM, SirSmUgly said: The tape says that this isn't true; crowds were very behind Disco Inferno, fighting babyface. I think a lot of us, deep down, wanted him to commit that diagram to memory and finally get the hang of that killer submission hold that was "guaranteed" to turn his career around. 1
BobbyWhioux Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 30+ years later and the "who has the best entrance theme/what's the best wrestler theme song?" discussion still begins and ends with Warrior. Sorry.
zendragon Posted December 14, 2024 Posted December 14, 2024 On 12/12/2024 at 2:45 PM, A.M.B. said: I am way more impressed with wrestlers who can be entertaining as a mid carder/novelty act than wrestlers who can have a "5 star match" at this point. We simply don't have a shortage of the latter and I find the former in high demand nowadays. IE I'll watch anything Outrunners but skip a lot of Ricochet. Like previously I said I find Will Ospreay lazy, not in his physicality, but in his match layout. Cool, you had a great match with apron bumps, reverseranas on the floor, dives, and double downs. I've seen it a bunch and I know what to expect at this point. Watching joshi wrestlers make a 2 count match entertaining is impressive to me. Orange Cassidy getting a body slam over as a finish is great wrestling to me now. True creativity comes from limitation, not from maximalism. Show me an awesome match where you only have a couple nearfalls and keep it mostly in the ring, and the crowd is still hot for the next match. That's what moves me now. There is a time and place for a classic, and we have more than enough. Obviously I love Dustin Rhodes and William Regal in ring, but to me what took them to the next level was their character work, not their wrestling skills. Those were added bonuses. I'd love to see more wrestlers challenged with taking on a novelty gimmick and actually getting it over, rather than just relying on great matches to get them over. This is my issue with Kenny Omega amoung others... the forced epic. If everything is epic then nothing is
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