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Dolfan in NYC

Raw - 10/22/2018

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5 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

 

I think part of the issue is that these days heel/face turns aren't as well defined as they used to be. I blame the introduction of tweeners.

There are some questionable face/heel alignment choices these days in terms of who the fans are inclined to cheer. But in terms of who is the hero and who is the villain in a particular story, I don’t think there’s as much gray area as people pretend. People like to give takes and justify their own taste. I blame shit fan culture more than WWE for these debates. 

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14 minutes ago, Casey said:

Why is Dean so mad? Because Rollins replaced him so fast when he got injured? I’m pretty sure that’s Kurt Angle’s fault.

If I heard him correctly, he was mentioning the jokes, specifically the whole "Ambrose Time" bit.

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11 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

If I heard him correctly, he was mentioning the jokes, specifically the whole "Ambrose Time" bit.

Wow, that's a poor reason for a turn. 

Now, if Ambrose were black and Seth used a three word phrase I've heard some elderly white people use, then I could see being that upset.

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What’s Ambrose Time? This is the first RAW I’ve watched in full in probably 2 months.

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When Rollins mentioned "Ambrose Time" Dean yelled at him something like "What because I'm a LUNATIC????"

So it's that thing of a crazy guy who has been labelled as the "crazy guy" who (because he is genuinely crazy) suddenly decides that all these years everyone has been ridiculing him and is out to get him and the slightest thing will set him off (like "Ambrose time") because he's already made up his addled mind that he's going to go feral on someone, or worse, he's genuinely gone into a kind of boiling rage state and no matter what you say he is going to hear "Hey, it's the LOOOONATIC HAHAHAHA!!!" and lose his shit.

Once that switch was thrown a few weeks ago, it was inevitable. There is literally nothing Rollins could have said or done that would not have been translated in Dean's fucked up brain as "We've all been secretly making fun of you for years, freak."

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5 minutes ago, Casey said:

What’s Ambrose Time? This is the first RAW I’ve watched in full in probably 2 months.

It's sort of like Hammer Time.

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And that’s why Dean turned? What a horrible human being. Hammer Time is awesome.

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Ambrose time has already lasted longer than Hammer Time did.

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26 minutes ago, piranesi said:

I think what deserves as much or more credit than how the turn was set up is how good Dean is at playing the emotions of someone who is turning because he is genuinely a dangerously unstable person and because of that it's believable and even a little frightening in a real-world way if you've ever been friends with someone like that.

They should just go with a scorpion and the frog type story for Dean's turn - he does it because it's his nature and no matter how tight you get with him, he'll still destroy that which he loves because it's who he is.

Lashley has the personality of a half empty box of screws, but I'm starting to get annoyed at Lio Rush's constant yammering during his matches. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't just yelling the same stuff over and over to the point where it was actively distracting from the match. I enjoy Lio as a wrestler and good for him for getting to be on multiple shows but his act is wearing thin.

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Roman opening up the show with Leukemia announcement made it a bit difficult to enjoy early on. Had to go to sleep and start back up later after hour 1.

Braun and Elias turning face was nice. I dug the attack by Drew and the later revenge from Braun.

Sasha/Ruby was nice while it lasted. Same with the later fatal 4-way. Dug the brawl between Trish/Lita and Mickie/Alicia.

The constant bringing up of Roman's leukemia was a bit much.

The main event was another great match between Ambrose/Seth and Drew/Ziggler. Not too happy with the turn for Ambrose. The actual turn was great and vicious, but in general I find the Shield members at their best together. With Roman's announcement the timing also just felt wrong to do it. Really though I'm mostly disappointed we won't get Shield vs. AOP and Shield vs. Revival.

 

32 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

If I heard him correctly, he was mentioning the jokes, specifically the whole "Ambrose Time" bit.

Whats funny is Renee confirmed this was a real thing on commentary.

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12 minutes ago, piranesi said:

Ambrose time has already lasted longer than Hammer Time did.

You must not have read all the stuff about Hammer in the music folder awhile back. Insulting him isn't exactly the best idea...

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Hate the Dean turn and especially immediately after winning the titles and on this night. The whole thing being over cause Seth called him the funny one or whatever is terrible too. Always preferred both as babyfaces, and together vs enemies, so don't care much for this. Tag champions who hate each other lives on forever. Roman's presence will definitely be missed on these shows.

I thought Lashley would at least get a 'new hot heel' push, then he jobs clean to Finn. Ugh.

Women's 4 way was crazy short. Backstage brawl was fun, hope Alexa is able to go on Sunday.

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

What’s Ambrose Time? This is the first RAW I’ve watched in full in probably 2 months.

 

57 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's sort of like Hammer Time.

Not to be confused with DANCE TIME which is currently happening on Smackdown.

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4 minutes ago, The Green Meanie said:

 

Not to be confused with DANCE TIME which is currently happening on Smackdown.

vader1009_1.png

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1 hour ago, piranesi said:

I think what deserves as much or more credit than how the turn was set up is how good Dean is at playing the emotions of someone who is turning because he is genuinely a dangerously unstable person and because of that it's believable and even a little frightening in a real-world way if you've ever been friends with someone like that.

It also goes to credit how much genuine emotion they managed to build into the shield over the years. But so much of that also goes to Dean for playing up this crazed amount of deluded loyalty he has that is at once childish and a little scary.

My first thought as he reeled about in the ring looking simultaneously relieved and angry at himself for what he’d done but like it was just something he had to inevitably do was, from a kayfabe pov, they need to get Dean away from Renee.  Like Im not sure they can have sunny, positive face commentator Renee Young married to dangerous psychopath Dean Ambrose.  

 

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1 hour ago, piranesi said:

When Rollins mentioned "Ambrose Time" Dean yelled at him something like "What because I'm a LUNATIC????"

So it's that thing of a crazy guy who has been labelled as the "crazy guy" who (because he is genuinely crazy) suddenly decides that all these years everyone has been ridiculing him and is out to get him and the slightest thing will set him off (like "Ambrose time") because he's already made up his addled mind that he's going to go feral on someone, or worse, he's genuinely gone into a kind of boiling rage state and no matter what you say he is going to hear "Hey, it's the LOOOONATIC HAHAHAHA!!!" and lose his shit.

Once that switch was thrown a few weeks ago, it was inevitable. There is literally nothing Rollins could have said or done that would not have been translated in Dean's fucked up brain as "We've all been secretly making fun of you for years, freak."

Basically, he's Bullseye. 

And I know it's questionable judgment at best to look at this with a wide lens from a story standpoint, BUT... it's fair to say Roman was the glue of Shield 2.0, and the combination of his bestie announcing he was possibly deathly ill combined with now being stuck with the one he privately can't stand snapped his already-fragile psyche. 

Ill-timed is a rightfully debatable point. Illogical, less so. 

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I guess I couldnt have picked a more newsworthy show to attend but I wish it was all in-ring related.. feel so bad for Roman my comments are in the other thread.

The rest of the show.. man it feels like a reset in a lot of ways. Guys like Braun and Elias should do very well as babyfaces.

I think Owens will do well when he returns.

Dean will be a good heel. Lashley is still getting mild reactions despite Lio Rush.

So I guess its Seth, Braun, Elias, Balor and Owens on the face side.

Heels are McIntyre, Ambrose, Lashley and? 

I must be forgetting people.

 

 

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Well that was something. 

As mentioned, the timing can be debated forever, but the execution was amazing.

RIP tag division

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1 hour ago, piranesi said:

I think what deserves as much or more credit than how the turn was set up is how good Dean is at playing the emotions of someone who is turning because he is genuinely a dangerously unstable person and because of that it's believable and even a little frightening in a real-world way if you've ever been friends with someone like that.

It also goes to credit how much genuine emotion they managed to build into the shield over the years. But so much of that also goes to Dean for playing up this crazed amount of deluded loyalty he has that is at once childish and a little scary.

Dean's turn tonight felt so ridiculously real from the point you mentioned. Dean's turn reminds me of many dudes I knew in high school and college. "Crap, I hope he doesn't think I'm hitting on his girlfriend, I'm really not, and that dude will absolutely kill me in a fight, oh, wait, he's not punching me he's punching a car window, phew."

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2 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

Does this episode tie the record for number of turns?

Also, was Dean's really a heel turn?

When you say you forgive a friend and take them back, that should be the end of it. So Dean is the heel. 

Something to remember is understandable does not mean justified. 

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8 minutes ago, Victator said:

When you say you forgive a friend and take them back, that should be the end of it. So Dean is the heel. 

Something to remember is understandable does not mean justified. 

Ah, but you're looking for logic in a mind (character wise) where it doesn't exist. That's the point.  Even if Ambrose turning on Rollins isn't justified, in his mind it is. 

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9 minutes ago, Josh Mann said:

Ah, but you're looking for logic in a mind (character wise) where it doesn't exist. That's the point.  Even if Ambrose turning on Rollins isn't justified, in his mind it is. 

All heels are justified in their mind.

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7 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Dean's turn should be one big tribute to Dick Slater. 

Wait so who is Dark Journey then.   And what did Renee do to deserve that

Someone on twitter said that Rollins was saying "It's okay it's okay" to Dean before the beat down as if Rollins understands why this is happening.  I didn't see that

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