Raziel Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Most over face on the roster is Ambrose, despite bookings attempts at changing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincey Greene Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well this prompts the question of who IS the most over babyface in WWE?The correct answer was Bayley. Burock Leeeeeesnar and its not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well this prompts the question of who IS the most over babyface in WWE? Which prompts my question: Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Depends. If the answer is "we have so many super-over babyfaces we can't decide who the top one is," then you're in "a good problem to have" territory. If the answer is "uhh..." then you've got no one drawing money. If you can't figure out how that matters, I'll say good day to you, sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Brock is neither face nor heel. Brock exists. He is his own entity that defies category. That is all. If face = most positive reaction from crowds, Orton is adored and Ambrose is a close second IMO in terms of the main roster. For NXT, I'd go Bayley, because folks are interested in her entire package. Enzo/Cass' in-ring work has to catch up with their character a bit. I always think of this sort of thing in quadrants: super babyfaces, general babyfaces, cowardly heels, and monster heels (either through cunning or sheer physical domination). Tweeners are off the quadrant because in time and with a tweak in character, they will eventually slot into one of the four main catergories. IMO, there is no super babyface on the main roster right now. Neville could be, with a push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 The problem with Enzo/Cass is that their reaction is all for their entrance - then it goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Just because the crowd pops doesn't necessarily mean its a wrestler people actually care about. Orton may still get a nice reaction but I don't think many people are particularly interested in his character or what happens to his character. The question should be who are the top 5 full time main roster wrestlers the audience is engaged in. 1. Cena 2. Ambrose 3. New Day (as a group) 4, Ziggler 5. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H. Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Enzo gets a good reaction during matches, the crowd gets behind him strongly as a sympathetic Babyface in tag matches. Casss... I'm not sure what Cass is supposed to be outside of "Big Man who gets the hot tag". James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I swear I've heard recently that WWE is about pushing the "brand", not the individual performers. In that regard, fans would be going to the shows to see *WWE* as opposed to any person/group. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 And as a result, TV ratings are at their lowest in decades, house show attendance is flat, and merch sales are in the toilet, (mostly due to a hit in DVD sales, as the Network has cannibalized those as well as PPV buys.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMax46 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Sasha Banks is a more over babyface than Bayley, and she isn't even a babyface.I think you need to learn that a babyface isn't actually determined by how a crowd reacts. It's based off of how he or she is booked. And it's always been that way. Uh, if that's the case, then Cena is the #1 face in the company without question with Roman right behind him, but I think there's definitely a difference between being booked as a face and being over as a face in the sense that the crowd really likes you. I know Morelock can be abrasive at times, but he's pretty right on this one. With all the necessary caveats about how much I love Bayley as a worker, she's not even the most over face on NXT, let alone all of WWE. In NXT, Enzo and Cass are definitely the #1 face act as far as getting crowd heat goes. Sami Zayn is Bryan-status, meaning he would easily be the most over face if he wasn't hurt. Finn and Bayley are neck and neck after that. And this is how fucked WWE is right now. Our answers for most over babyface are "someone who's been on the shelf 15 of the last 18 months", "someone who hasn't wrestled on the main roster, so WWE creative hasn't had a chance to ruin her yet", and, "a heel diva." Throw in "guy that gets actively booed by about half the crowd" and you've got the complete set from the island of misfit toys. Shit, you could make a case that the most over pure babyface on the full-time roster right now is Randy Orton, and he hasn't done anything relevant in almost a year. He still gets some of the best pops every show, though. You could also throw New Day into the "faces that are supposed to be heels" category with Sasha. They're getting unsolicited "New Day Rocks" chants in almost every city. Cena and Reigns are booked terribly. So...no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyMax46 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Also, I think people need to learn the difference between a short term novelty act to a potential long term draw. Bayley was watched over very closely with how she was booked in NXT. You see her character started out as a nobody and turned into a champion. This is called a character arc. Over time the crowd got to know her and enjoyed the journey. And when she won the best they were right with her. Now, I don't know for sure, because I don't work in WWE...but I'm going to guess Bayley's entire road to the title was very closely regarded within Ward and Hunters booking circle (possibly circle jerk) They saw the potential in her and booked her for a journey. Enzo and Cass on the other hand aren't a draw long term, and they aren't even babyfaces...they will never draw a dime in this business as a team. And it's likely that Ward and Hunter don't even know or care about anything this team does. This is what I mean by booking a babyface or a heel. The thing that makes a babyface is the journey. The problem with main roster WWE is that they still think wins and losses don't matter. But it goes a bit deeper than that. A babyface's character goes beyond what he or she says, does, or acts like. A protagonist doesn't even have to be a hero. They could be an anti-hero. A damsel in distress. A loner rogue. Bayley is a perfect babyface because the story was crafted from beginning to end. And let's face it, a century from now when our alien masters have enslaved us, no one is going to remember the John Cena U.S. Open Challenge...Or Dean Ambrose. But those Bayley matches with Sasha Banks will probably go down in time as something along the level of Savage/Steamboat. Now I'm not shitting on Cena or Ambrose. Those two are good guys. But they suffer from the WWE's biggest problem. THE WRESTLING INDUSTRY'S WORST WRITER IS ALSO IT'S MOST IMPORTANT AND DEMANDING WRITER. I don't want to get into a Mr. Plinkett like review of WWE/Wrestling booking. That's for when I go really insane. So I'll just leave with this. Sometimes a cigar, is just Wrestlings biggest sociopath getting mad at Rusev because he wanted to have a personal life. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well this prompts the question of who IS the most over babyface in WWE? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 They are dead wrong about the brand being more important than the stars. That might work with the NFL but that's about it. The NBA is very much a star driven sport. Which is great because then it doesn't matter which city is involved in the finals. Wherever LeBron and Durant and the like are is where the eyeballs will be. You need "The Rock" or "Stone Cold" or the marquee more than simply "WWE" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Enzo and Cass on the other hand aren't a draw long term, and they aren't even babyfaces...they will never draw a dime in this business as a team. And it's likely that Ward and Hunter don't even know or care about anything this team does.They gave away all those How You Doin? shirts for free? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't know Hunter's opinion of Enzo and Cass, but the idea that he's got no idea who they are or doesn't care what they're doing is patent nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Hell, I think Hunter knew who Enzo was before wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I swear I've heard recently that WWE is about pushing the "brand", not the individual performers. In that regard, fans would be going to the shows to see *WWE* as opposed to any person/group. That sounds about right. They're all about "well, we do so much good work" (see Be A Star, Connor's Cure, Komen, ect). The wrestling stuff is secondary to all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Eventually they're going to run out of nostalgia and it's going to have to change, then again, that was said about WCW as well. Today's WWE is Dolph Ziggler's mom on a pole away from being WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawful Metal Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I think Seth Rollins is the best thing about the show nowadays. He's the most consistent character out there. You know he'll be a total coward all the time, and totally try to hide that fact even though it totally shows. You can rationalize his losses as him just giving into his cowardly impulses. The funny thing about him, though, is that he's actually better than he thinks he is. So when he starts doing well in matches, you can see that he's even surprising himself. I'm happy with Seth Rollins, hapless WWE champ. I still think he shoulda beat Cena clean at Summerslam with the 540. Hopefully, he'll beat Kane clean with the 540 or the frog splash. Just stop using the pedigree. Never has a finisher looked so forced on a guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Also, I think people need to learn the difference between a short term novelty act to a potential long term draw. Bayley was watched over very closely with how she was booked in NXT. You see her character started out as a nobody and turned into a champion. This is called a character arc. Over time the crowd got to know her and enjoyed the journey. And when she won the best they were right with her. Now, I don't know for sure, because I don't work in WWE...but I'm going to guess Bayley's entire road to the title was very closely regarded within Ward and Hunters booking circle (possibly circle jerk) They saw the potential in her and booked her for a journey. Enzo and Cass on the other hand aren't a draw long term, and they aren't even babyfaces...they will never draw a dime in this business as a team. And it's likely that Ward and Hunter don't even know or care about anything this team does. This is what I mean by booking a babyface or a heel. The thing that makes a babyface is the journey. The problem with main roster WWE is that they still think wins and losses don't matter. But it goes a bit deeper than that. The Enzo/Cass comment is just ridiculous. How are they not babyfaces, number one? Number two, they already move lots of merch and their sustained heat doesn't indicate anyone is tired of them wouldn't accept them getting a push. Number three, the idea that a show as well put-together as NXT has people in charge who "don't know or care" about anyone on the roster, much less guys who get regular tv time is so beyond absurd, I'm not sure how you could even bring yourself to type it. But more importantly than all that, your idea that a babyface needs to be built from the ground up seems to go against the last 20 years of WWE history where the most successful faces were guys that got over with their heel acts and were turned out of necessity. Even in the context of modern NXT women's wrestling, Sasha is overshadowing Bayley with that exact same model. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DouglasC Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Let's take a time out from wrestling discussion to watch Captain Lou Albano as a judge on the late 80's Gong Show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 How are they not babyfaces, number one? They are obnoxious douchebags. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 The two biggest babyfaces of the biggest era in Wrestling were obnoxious douchebags. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I personally don't enjoy Enzo & Cass, but to say they aren't faces is pretty crazy. The crowd is behind them in the same way they're behind Bayley, they just want to see both of them succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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