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NXT TAKEOVER: BROOKLYN IV - 8/18/2018


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2 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Okay, I really think Dave is great, aside from his inconsistent issues regarding women, but his dismissal of Kairi (I can't bring myself to refer to her by that stupid NXT name...)/Baszler as great pissed me off. He's always been a moves/execution guy first and foremost but it really seems like it's getting worse with time. I continually find myself siding with Alvarez's opinions on things during their discussions.

I honestly kinda feel bad for him. You know what’s gonna happen if he gives the NXT Women’s Title match way lower than expected. Like most people I saw had it at like 4* or 4.25* and listening to Dave on WOR, it seemed like he had it at like 3.25* or 3.5*.

With the Royce controversy, giving a women’s match a way lower rating than the consensus is surely gonna look bad for him sadly.

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The tag match was very good. Tyler Bate is incredible. Kyle O'Reilly is the only UE member to have grown on me, because he recognizes that he's a boob and plays into it. Kicking of a Burning Hammer was ridiculous and hampered the match's real ending, IMO. 

EC3 is lucky the NXT faithful love Velveteen Dream so much. The Top 1% added nothing to this match. Dream continues with the great character work. The Coogi-inspired vest was amazing and CALL ME UP VINCE on his tights while shaking his ass was my moment of the night. Dream's not there just yet in the ring, but he's still ahead of EC3 in that department. I like the former Ethan Carter III as a character, but he does nothing for me with his in-ring work. A strong ending to a solid match is all to be expected here, and the right man won.

I'll have rewatch Cole/Ricochet. I feel that it was a good match, but it's not clicking for me right now for some reason. Need to make sure it's not my Cole bias clouding my opinion. The superkick to the neck had me yelping, as well as that crazy rana over the top rope. They couldn't have Ricochet take a loss here, so all well that ends well.

Shayna/Kairi was MOTN for me. Shayna is a great asshole heel and Kairi is the perfect never-die baby face to balance that. Didn't care for Kairi's Elbow getting kicked out of twice--what is with NXT devaluing strong finishers so much? Anyway, I like they had both women know each other so well where they could counter the other's killshots. Gotta figure Bianca Belair is the new endgame for Kairi.

As for the main event: it's becoming diminishing returns for me. That's not to say it last night's match was bad, it certainly wasn't. But unsanctioned/street fight/last man standing matches are variations of the same brawling style and all this needs something fresh. Black in the match would have been that, but no one has control over injury, sadly.

I understand the story they're telling with Gargano--in his quest to take down Ciampa, he's lost himself--but find another way for him to lose that doesn't make him look like a total idiot. Wile E Wrestling is an apt name for him.

I hope the cameraman, timekeeper, and Percy Watson all get hazard pay for getting caught in the fray.

Best thing going in NXT is Aleister Black mystery, how they're handling that story is fantastic.

Good show, and enjoyable.

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10 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Why build up Baszler as such a dominant champ if not to either eventually turn on Rousey or see Asuka return? They've barely used Sain in any significant way. This seems odd and distracting in the context of the next MYC. 

I think they did it because of the MYC. It makes the tournament look that much more important if the previous year’s winner is now the women’s champion. Then again, I could be wrong and Kairi drops the belt at the next set of tapings lol 

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That tag match was superb. Taylor Bate should not exist. The UE also brought good cheap shot heel nonsense.

Dream/EC3 was really good in how it told the story of the feud so well in the match. Dream is a spotlight hog and ended the match spectacularly. EC3 isn’t great in the ring but he has a really fun character. 

Richochet is fantastic. That match was the best Adam Cole has looked. He was awesome as a chickenshit. But Richochet just does his high flying  stuff so effoortlessly. If I was 10, he would be my favorite wrestler of all time. So much stuff could have gone wrong with that apron spot. How does a person even think of that let alone hit it flawlessly?

That woman’s match was one of my favorite matches of the year. Great bully vs. fiery baby face saga. Shayna has done such a good job of being vulnerable in all of her matches. She always looks like she is in over her head before she finds a way to get her choke on. Love that she was outsmarted for the end.

I did not finish the main event because I fell asleep. I probably won’t. I haven’t been feeling those guys to the same degree of every other wrestling fan. I like the feud on paper and their previous matches were great chaos. But I was not until DIY and their corny college improv promos. Ciampa has gotten really good as a troll but Gargano can’t pull off the “lost soul” thing. The “looking for revenge” stuff he was fine at but the “lost his mind and way” bit he can’t pull off without looking like a high school kid trying out for community theater. I am not asking for anything much in my wrestling acting but if you’re taking on something a little more complex you have to step up. 

I hope the feud ends with Gargano beating Ciampa in a regular wrestling match.

 

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Take this for what it is worth - from the WON update today

Quote

HHH said that the finish of the Gargano vs. Ciampa match had technical plans change (I guess the finish itself) due to the dislocated kneecap. 

 

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I really feel like EC3 - much like Elias or Alexa Bliss - is one of those guys who is going to be way better/more over on the main roster than in NXT.  Like Bliss and Drifter, his matches in NXT are so-so but he’s getting a lot of character work.   Plus being in the shape he’s in, you know Vince is gonna have some plans for him.  

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I enjoyed Takeover like I do all the NXT and Takeover shows. I recently watched some of those old school coliseum home videos on the Network, and compared to all the Takeover matches the guys just do SO MUCH LESS. I get that the style has evolved and the high pace indy style is what gets guys over in the ring these days, but feel like each of those Takeover matches could have ended 2-3 sequences earlier in each match. 

There was a top rope suplex in the women's match that looked awesome. Those two elbows from Kari looked devastating, but neither was the finish. I loved the actual submission into the pinfall, but why couldn't they work to that spot just a few sequences earlier without giving away some of the other stuff. 

Everybody is talking about the Adam Cole superkick spot to the dome, but that wasn't even the finish either. Each match I found myself watching a great match with great finish (Wow! That looked devastating and makes sense to finish on) and then the match went on for another 5 minutes. 

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9 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I said this last night but my list of dumbest people in wrestling is currently 

1) Sting

2) Johnny Gargano

3) Becky Lynch

Thankfully #3 is now a little bit rehabilitated.

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I was away so, I had to watch the replay of the early part of the show. 

 

As I said on Twitter tonight, the theme of the weekend seems to be them killing finishers.  They are going too hard in the AJPW killing finisher stuff but even at it's guiltiest, the AJPW style at least had a period where something was a finisher in a previous match before they have guys kicking out of it.  They do way to much stuff that gets kicked out of on the first take that should have been a finisher at least once.  There was no reason Cole should have super kicked Richochet out of the sky and it not to be a finish, let alone having him take that followed by an immediate brainbuster to his knee and lead to a kick out.  If they were doing a series, that is a finish, if they go to it again, finisher after the brainbuster, etc.

- Undisputed Era vs. Mustache Mountain seemed good, but I got distracted during parts of it.  Tyler Bate is so damn good.  Kyle and his guitar belt playing is so great in that I want people to punch him in the face.

- Dream/EC3 was OK.  

- Right now Cole/Ricochet was my match of the night.  Cole's a guy I don't really see all the hype on him, I mean he's good but I'm don't see him as a world beater.

- I liked Sane/Baszler, but have mixed feelings.  I love Baszler, right now she feels like a female Minoru Suzuki and she has the air of a bully and plays it great.  I got bugged that Sane really blew off the knee work in this.  Shayna is nuking her knee with bending it in all nasty directions, basically does the the arm break stomp spot on her ankle, Kairi goes on running offense THEN does the knee sell when walking.

 

- Gargano/Ciampa was OK other than them making Johnny look like a chump again.  Another example of them doing too much and there's too much similar between the match stips.  I loved the fuck out of the unsanctioned match, I appreciate them trying to do the call backs to the first match, but it seems like they're doing too much.  At this point, we had the pay off of Johnny getting his revenge first and everything since has been him losing, feels like they should have done the two ciampa wins into the pay off of the unsanctioned match with Johnny getting his revenge.

 

 

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13 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

I honestly thought that Johnny was going to drag out the setup for the last superkick or knee, run at a cowering Ciampa, stop just short of hitting it and exactly as the ref counted to 10. We'd have Ciampa's shocked and then embarrassed and then outraged facial expressions, flipping out and flailing around still handcuffed, and Gargano could smirk and raise his head - and new title - high!

 

Instead we get Will E Wrestling flying off the cliff.

 

This made me snigger out loud like Muttley. Thank you.

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I want to love the Cole / Ricochet match because of the sick superkick spot but the more I think about the overall PPV. the more it kinda just settles in my system as an okay match..

Baszler / Hojo was fucking beast, though.

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I would seriously love the ending of Gargano/Ciampa being for Johnny to realize once again (maybe through Candace) that he's Johnny Wrestling. And that's what he does better than anyone else. This quest for revenge isn't doing anything but hurting him. But getting Ciampa in the ring in a traditional match - he can't beat him in that setting, and knows it (playing off their CWC match, too). That would be the best character arc, IMO. "I might not be able to hurt you in a brawl, but I can crush your ego since you and I both know you can't beat me in an actual wrestling match."

Also: Yay! Another ROH/indie hero shows up at ringside and gets a massive pop! This is seriously the absolute laziest form of introducing a new performer to NXT. It's truly lame. There are so many better ways to introduce someone. Heck, even Adam Cole showing up and jumping someone and forming the UE is better, as simple and done as that is. 

Imagine if the mystery angle resulted in the strong debut of someone? They did the "newcomer arrives and cuts the line" spot once before with KO taking out Sami. It's one of the iconic moments of NXT history. 

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Mustache Mountain vs. UE was good. I'm not quite willing to say I like the O'Reilly/Strong team more than the Revival in the ring, but I'm working my way up to it. Tyler Bate looked really good in this one too, both selling and on offense. That spot where they built on the airplane spin/giant swing combo with KoR moving into a sleeper while Roddy was drilling Bate with up-kicks to the face, then transitioned into Bate doing a deadlift German on Roddy with KoR still on his back was an absolutely beautiful piece of tag team wrestling. Bate's dive and rebound lariat sequence was nice too. Only complaint was that it seemed very unnecessary for UE to kick out of every MM finisher, including their team finisher. Even if Bate and Seven are going to WWE UK, never to be seen again in Orlando, that was excessive.

Dream/EC3 was ok, but seemed worse because it was well below the quality of an average TO match. Why EC3 was working as the face until the end was a mystery. Just lean into the obvious face/heel dynamic and don't work against the grain. At least Dream finally got a big win.

The NA title match was solid, but could've been a lot better. Ricochet is best on offense and Adam Cole is best as a weasely opportunist heel, so the standard heel control formula doesn't work to either of their strengths. That said, the back and forth part of the match was really good and brought the overall quality up significantly. Of course that superkick spot was amazing on its own, but I liked that they set up by Ricochet countering a similar spot earlier in the match. The strike exchange was one of the better ones I've seen lately. Finish was good and fit the story of their feud that Cole would try to bail when he was outmatched, but this time Ricochet didn't let him escape. Ricochet is the ideal midcard workrate champion, so I expect good things with his title run.

The women's title match was also good with surprising finish. It almost had me wondering if that was supposed to the finish because it was so sudden. Great change of pace from the usual big match style.

All I could think about after the main was how much better it would have been with Aleister Black in it. I'm pretty over Gargano/Ciampa singles matches, as they've gotten more bloated and less special each time since New Orleans. I get what they were going for with the finish, but at the end of the day, your top babyface has gotten beat by a handcuffed man twice now. Neither guy really has anywhere to go from here and one of the most promising feuds in company history has dialed down my interest greatly. The exact same spot with Black there to pick up the pieces and take his title back would've been great, though.

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8 hours ago, Greggulator said:

I would seriously love the ending of Gargano/Ciampa being for Johnny to realize once again (maybe through Candace) that he's Johnny Wrestling. And that's what he does better than anyone else. This quest for revenge isn't doing anything but hurting him. But getting Ciampa in the ring in a traditional match - he can't beat him in that setting, and knows it (playing off their CWC match, too). That would be the best character arc, IMO. "I might not be able to hurt you in a brawl, but I can crush your ego since you and I both know you can't beat me in an actual wrestling match."

That's where I have thought this was going, since Gargano keeps trying to be this ultraviolent asshole and fuck up Ciampa's good time, and all it has done so far is cost Gargano matches against him and then help Ciampa win the belt. At some point, he has to realize he is a better WRESTLER, and that's how you end it. Beat him for the belt, and then defend it at least once more, maybe they blow it off with a 2 out of 3 falls.

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On 8/19/2018 at 3:03 PM, FlaeBlazer said:

I honestly kinda feel bad for him. You know what’s gonna happen if he gives the NXT Women’s Title match way lower than expected. Like most people I saw had it at like 4* or 4.25* and listening to Dave on WOR, it seemed like he had it at like 3.25* or 3.5*.

With the Royce controversy, giving a women’s match a way lower rating than the consensus is surely gonna look bad for him sadly.

Considering the wrestler he has awarded the most five star matches ever to is Minami Toyota a "Dave doesn't respect women's wrestling" narative is pretty absurd. 

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49 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Considering the wrestler he has awarded the most five star matches ever to is Minami Toyota a "Dave doesn't respect women's wrestling" narative is pretty absurd. 

You know the people who will say that won’t be rational.

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1 hour ago, grilledcheese said:

That's where I have thought this was going, since Gargano keeps trying to be this ultraviolent asshole and fuck up Ciampa's good time, and all it has done so far is cost Gargano matches against him and then help Ciampa win the belt. At some point, he has to realize he is a better WRESTLER, and that's how you end it. Beat him for the belt, and then defend it at least once more, maybe they blow it off with a 2 out of 3 falls.

I’d like a submissions match, playing off that he’s gotten Ciampa to tap and his name is Johnny Wrestling.  I’d like it mainly because it would cut out all the brawling bloat.

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Just now, JonnyLaw said:

I’d like a submissions match, playing off that he’s gotten Ciampa to tap and his name is Johnny Wrestling.  I’d like it mainly because it would cut out all the brawling bloat.

I defaulted to 2 out of 3 because I feel like a 2-0 victory is the biggest of fuck yous in a "Who's the better wrestler" argument when looked at in a purely kayfabe sense. But a submission match would also do the trick.

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1 hour ago, sabremike said:

Considering the wrestler he has awarded the most five star matches ever to is Minami Toyota a "Dave doesn't respect women's wrestling" narative is pretty absurd. 

Even that IS absurd, because it shines a light on the similar bias Meltzer has.

Even if he awarded Manami Toyota the most five star matches ever, there's still a pretty big issue of "Meltzer is so busy holding women's wrestling to the standard of 1990s joshi that he is completely blinded to the fact that North American women's wrestling has changed from the piss break and become a major part of the promotion."

 

...and, well, you know, the "Meltzer doxxed an abuse shelter because one of the people there was soooooo mean to a holy New Japan worker." That too.

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