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SorceressKnight

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About SorceressKnight

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  1. SorceressKnight

    Your Wrestlers RIP Thread

    Good matches nothing- I don't think it's a hot take to say- Jeter vs. Cappotelli is what the Gargano/Ciampa feud would have been if both guys had been homegrown developmental product. Had Cappotelli not gotten cancer, he probably would have been an amazing babyface in WWE.
  2. SorceressKnight

    2018 WRESTLING MERCHANDISE TOPIC

    Still, there's a difference between "okay, it's a little cringey, but if you're an Alexa Bliss fan, wear the shirt if you really want to" and "dude. You are saying you beat up women with this shirt. I don't care if you're a Becky Lynch fan, NO. Just...NO."
  3. SorceressKnight

    Let's Discuss the WON Hall of Fame

    Things like this is where I think the Gordy List being used has some flaws- the question of: ...doesn't really work for lower-carder or midcarder performers. Considering the Keltner list question that equivalently goes to it would be: And the related one when it was changed to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one: ...when you realize that fact going to play, "position player" and "genre of music" is a world of difference from "weight or gender classes." Something that would work closer to that would be something like: "Was [x] the best performer in their "genre" of wrestling of their time?" So, for instance: Were they the best brawler in the business of the time? Were they the best technical wrestler of their time? Were they the best high flier of their time? Were they the best women's wrestler of the time? Were they the best comedy wrestler of the time? And so on, and from there it can go to other levels ("Were they one of the top midcarders of the time? Were they one of the best babyfaces of the time? Were they one of the best heels of the time? Etc.) Indeed, using something trying to make it equal to the Keltner List/the Rock and Roll HOF similar list, a more streamlined "Gordy List" would seem to be:
  4. SorceressKnight

    Let's Discuss the WON Hall of Fame

    Honestly from the Gordy List, this would probably tie into my Peter Principle remark with Angle, and unfortunately it doesn't bode well for Anderson. The big problem for "is he better or worse than he appeared" was that Arn Anderson probably knew his limitations better than any wrestler in the business, and as a result was good at playing to his strengths better than anyone else. This was a blessing- it made AA so good in the ring, but a curse- because it ties to the "better or worse" fact. Arn Anderson just KNEW he was the platonic ideal of a good solid midcard hand- able to be great against any opponent you put him against, good at tag team work and singles work- but it also meant that Anderson never quite played into his "What's his level of incompetence?" because Anderson knew the right role to put him in: Solid midcard hand and Flair's enforcer. It does say something with Anderson he always shows up on the list of "Best wrestlers to never win the World Championship"...but it says arguably more for this question that unlike most of the names who show up on that list (where there's invariably AT LEAST ONE moment in time where you knew "wait, why DIDN'T they go all in on them as World Champion there?")- for all of Anderson's career, there just was never ONE MOMENT where the window was clearly open for Arn Anderson to even CONTEND for the World Title in NWA/WCW, much less be the World Champion himself. He was just too accepted as Ric Flair's enforcer/sidekick, to the point that you couldn't even imagine Arn Anderson and Ric Flair feuding with each other.
  5. SorceressKnight

    Let's Discuss the WON Hall of Fame

    The big problem with Caristico is that he was a good example of a fatal flaw in the sport, where Mistico's reign would probably have to tie into the overarching problem: Gabe Sapolsky not liking lucha libre kept luchadors from breaking out in the independent scene revolution of the 2000s, and that wrestling style became the national wrestling style in the 2010s...while also ignoring that the problems of luchadors translating to America means that a lot of the top luchadors NEED to get some reps in the US to know how to work American style. Caristico not being in the HOF isn't just "he did nothing in WWE", but just as much that the 2000s was almost a lost generation of lucha libre due to it being a ghost town in the North American scene for the 2000s. WCW made luchadors popular in the 1990s, and Lucha Underground will do it for the 2010s, but the 2000s was nothing (to the point where instead of "If Mistico didn't go to WWE, does he make the HOF?" can arguably also be asked as the comparable question, "If Perro Aguayo Jr. didn't die young, does he still make the HOF?")
  6. SorceressKnight

    Let's Discuss the WON Hall of Fame

    On the Angle induction, he was inducted way too early, but if you consider his TNA run was to solidify him...I'd honestly argue Angle in TNA was very similar to Sting in WCW. He was the ace of the company, he was a quite good worker and, similar to the Keltner List, he was a comparatively good worker compared to other guys in his spot (but probably not best in the world at any point), but he also was someone who never proved that he was someone people would go to the arena specifically to see (as seen because TNA could never crack into the house show market, period). This helped on Angle's history, since another good question for the quality of a performer is putting them in the Peter Principle: "What is their level of incompetence?" How high on the card does this worker have to be before they clearly don't have it? This question does well for Sting (even if he was never a mega-draw, he never seemed like an incompetent ace of the company), but it is damning for Angle (who always seemed like his level of incompetence is "he could be one of an ensemble of main eventers, but couldn't be THE GUY."
  7. SorceressKnight

    Let's Discuss the WON Hall of Fame

    This ties into the bigger problem with the WON Hall of Fame: they induct people who are still active...and worse, the "minimum age limit of 35 years old" is really damning if you think about it in pro wrestling. In a real sport, people usually are in their prime in their 20s/early 30s, and by 35 all but the most freakish athletes are winding down their careers...but in pro wrestling, you can argue a wrestler doesn't truly hit their prime until their mid-30s, and a particularly good performer can wrestle at a high level into their fifties or beyond. It's almost a particularly new thing where a male wrestler can even make it to a World Title reign before their 30th birthday, and the people who did that would be almost first-ballot Hall of Famers anyway...and so younger performers who make the ballot with 10+ years at age 35 by and large will still have a lot of high-level wrestling in their career to do before the vote happens (the best example of this: AJ Styles being knocked off the ballot for under 10% voting for him in 2014 when he was Mr.TNA and an IWGP champion, only to make the Hall of Fame in 2017 when he got back on the ballot in large part because of the rest of his New Japan run and his WWE run solidifying his career.) Upping the age limit to "you don't get on the ballot until you turn 50 years old, with deceased performers being added to the ballot immediately" would help get a more in-depth look at people's careers even after their prime, as opposed to voting on guys who for all intents and purposes are still in their absolute prime as performers.
  8. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    For me...and it's unpopular now more than ever, but...I just don't "get" Johnny Gargano. It's hard- I recognize how talented he is and how good he is when I see him wrestle...but I hear so many people who's opinions I respect saying he has top face of the company potential, he's the next Daniel Bryan, he's the next great babyface in pro wrestling to lead the sport to a new boom period...and for the life of me, I just don't see it in Gargano and it drives me crazy thinking of what I'm missing here. I mean, the guy's good, but not THAT GOOD.
  9. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    Reposting from an older thread, but my argument: If we're focusing on what NXT was, solely as NXT, these three would have the case for the top spot. NXT's biggest benefit during the glory days was that all three divisions- the women with Bayley, the men with Sami Zayn, and the tag team division with Enzo and Cass- each had their own "Screw the titles, this person/people are the heart and soul of this division" and every fan kind of knew it. What makes Enzo and Cass number one, though, was the fact that Enzo and Cass actively sucked in the ring, and people inherently knew this. In an NXT where fans were engineered to prefer great wrestling, and a division filled with great tag teams throughout the division who could actually wrestle, Enzo and Cass came in with two strikes against them in the NXT style as "Performance Center students with no particular run on the indies, let alone being indy darlings" and managed to not only hit a home run, but hit a grand slam down by three in the bottom of the ninth with two outs to win the World Series. In a NXT where Full Sail was actively ready to despise anyone who didn't come from "muh indies", they managed to make Full Sail fall in love with them, EVEN WHILE KNOWING they were actively terrible in the ring. Even with the great character of Sami Zayn, there'd always be that question of "Did they love Sami Zayn, Moral Compass of NXT, or did they love El Generico (TRAINER IN AN ORPHANAGE OF! Sami Zayn!)"- and the same thing could be said for most of the women who were behind the Women's Revolution (with only Charlotte being a Performance Center graduate of the core "Women's Revolutionaries"). What Bayley and Sami Zayn did was a chemical reaction and made NXT so great- but if Bayley's biggest reason she would go above Sami Zayn would likely boil down to "Bayley made herself a star wholly in NXT", then it also had to be mentioned Enzo and Cass did it all in the tag division, without even getting to win the big one like Bayley or Zayn did, and did it without any indy cred at all to speak of (where even Bayley had a run in SHIMMER- and with how few indy women WWE hired until the Women's Revolution took, even that small run would be enough to say "Did they love Bayley, or did they love Davina Rose (NOT! Bayley!)"
  10. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    Karl Anderson and Finn Balor WEREN'T IN WWE in the past. That has to be added to the mix for Kenny Omega going to WWE: He was there under a developmental deal in the past! Omega knows what being in the WWE was like, and by all accounts Omega HATED IT THERE! Even if most of it was being a victim of DeMott bullying, Omega despised his time in the WWE and absolutely loves everything about Japan. With the Young Bucks, there's a chance that you make a price tag so high they have to go into the void. With Omega, you have to find a price tag SO HIGH that he's willing to leave a promotion and life that he loves to go back to a life that he hated, and he does seem, as was said, like a "quality of life guy".
  11. SorceressKnight

    2018 Summer Blockbuster Movie Pool

    We had the most similar lists this year! You're tearing me apart, RIPPA!
  12. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    Honestly, this would make more sense if they did that. Just outsource the NJPW women's promotion to Women of Honor, and NJPW has a pretty good nucleus to start with. ROH is basically NJPW's development promotion, They push the women who show up in NJPW well, they have a working arrangement with STARDOM and thus one of the top joshi feds, opening another place to ally with NJPW.
  13. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    Even then, there was cooling off, and there was what they did with Ryback. The WWE doesn't do too many true burials (not "My favorite wrestler lost a match! BAWWWW!" or "My favorite isn't the champion! BAWWWWWW") anymore, but it's hard not to call the Ryback situation of "turn him heel for no apparent reason when Ryback was clearly a better face than heel", "take away everything remotely interesting about Ryback", and "job him out to little guys and kill his aura before he left" as anything but a textbook burial. Considering WWE even left the door open for ENZO when he was fired, when no one would have blamed them if they suddenly said "Enzo Amore had totally handed the Cruiserweight Title back to us, because he was crying his eyes out and saying Cedric Alexander is so much better than him he knew he was going to get killed in that match...uh...and he wet his pants when he heard he had to fight Cedric, too!...so he handed the title to us and ran off, crying, like a little coward because he was so afraid of the talent in the Cruiserweight Division that he knew he wouldn't have a prayer against because he's so terrible a wrestler he could never compare"...that SAYS something.
  14. SorceressKnight

    JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    Even then, you can still make a case for why the X-Title having "Option C" worked: The X-Division title may be "Not about weight limits, it's about no limits", but yeah- it was a cruiserweight title, maybe with "well, if a heavyweight worked the super indies we'll put them in the X-Division." For all intents and purposes in wrestling, the heavyweight title is the World Title and the Cruiserweight Title is just a B or C-title...and it's not like the women's division, where you can eventually say the women's title is equal to the men's title and it's just different divisions since there are people who'd qualify as cruiserweights fighting for the World Title. When that's in place, having a check and balance that says "yeah, the Cruiserweight Champion SHOULD have the opportunity to challenge for the World Title if they want to" is perfectly viable. Even if it devalues the midcard titles, having a plot point "Yeah, the midcard champion is technically number one contender to the World Title" from the old United States Title, and going further and saying "...and since they're the number one contender to the World Title, the midcard champion has the right to challenge the World Champion once during their title reign and the World Champion MUST accept their challenge or be stripped of the title" would be perfectly valid.
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