July 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[Pedro]

4 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Here is my little fantasy booking the territory scenario: If you must have Luger as the Hulk Hogan replacement, you need to place Luger and Yokozuna within one or two degrees of each other. I see it where Lex and Yoko are tagging against Duggan (who Yoko was programmed with around that time) and maybe like Virgil or someone perfectly disposable as the feature match on Superstars two or three weeks out from the Stars and Stripes Challenge.

The layout for the match isn’t as important as the post-match. The finish would be Luger laying out Virgil with the loaded forearm of doom. Afterwards, Luger starts doing his lame Narcissist posing to the hard cam. Meanwhile, Duggan is checking on the unconscious Virgil. Out of nowhere, Yoko attacks Duggan and then drags him over to the corner. Totally oblivious to what’s going on, Luger continues posing on the other side of the ring. Fuji motions Yoko to go up, and Yoko demolishes Duggan with a Banzai Drop. Luger turns around sort of bewildered just as Yoko is getting off top of a seriously hurt Duggan. Fuji then motions Yoko to go up again for another Banzai Drop. Luger goes over to Fuji and asks Fuji what the hell is going on. Yoko doesn’t give a damn and hits Duggan with a second Banzai Drop. Duggan is basically a pancake at this point. Fuji brushes off Luger and says Yoko isn’t done yet. Yoko goes up again and just before he is going to deliver a career ending and possibly fatal(!) third Banzai drop, Luger dives in and shields our fallen hero Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Yoko gets angry, climbs down, and starts yelling at Lex and Lex argues back. Then, Fuji decides they still aren’t done. Fuji wants Luger to prove his loyalty to these anti-Americans and deliver one last loaded forearm to an already half dead Duggan. Fuji motions Yoko to pick up Duggan, and Yoko obliges. Lex looks to the crowd in order to see what he should do. He plays up the moral dilemma huge. The crowd obviously doesn’t want him to do it.  Vince of course oversells the shit out of it on commentary saying, “Don’t do it, Lex! No! No!”. Lex brings up his forearm and sort of looks at it. He puts it down. Then, he exits the ring and heads to the back in disgust. Yoko is totally confused by Lex’s actions.

Then, the following Raw two days later, you have Jim Ross do a sitdown with Lex at his home in Atlanta and asks why he did what he did. You don’t have Lex do the typical halfway babyface interview. You have Lex say that why he isn’t friends with Duggan or Virgil at all, he was completely disgusted by the actions of Yokozuna and Mr. Fuji. They had already won the match, and they proved they were the better men. It was completely uncalled for. When it comes down to it, at the end of the day, he is still a proud, red blooded American and couldn’t stand by to watch Yoko do that or contribute anymore to it. For his final question, Ross asks if Luger will show up for the Stars and Stripes Challenge on July 4. Luger just says he doesn’t know. He honestly cannot answer Jim’s question because he doesn’t know if the fans will accept him after KOing people with his loaded forearm for months now or being egotistic. He also doesn’t know if he can realistically bodyslam the WWF World Champion Yokozuna. However, if he isn’t there, he would like someone to humble Yokozuna and do the deed in his absence.

You play up the “Is Lex going show up on July 4” on Raw and the syndicated shows heavily. Boom. You have an instant mega babyface when this dude shows up and bodyslams Yokozuna.

This is a good storyline but it totally eliminates the surprise factor.  If Lex and Yoko have even the slightest beef with each other and every other person who tried to slam Yoko failed, it would be obvious that Lex would show up and do it.  

To have everyone in the WWF and I believe some weight lifters/NFL stars try and fail and then Lex show up in the Helicopter it was a 100% shock to everyone in attendance and anyone who found out about it on TV. In fact one could even say it may be one of the biggest unspoiled WWF/WWE surprises of all time.

Anyone who tells me they knew Lex would be the guy to slam Yoko would be full of crap. Nobody knew or expected it. And that was the absolute beauty of it.

[twiztor]

3 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I think Luger actually is very charismatic by the time he returns to WCW in 1995. He figured all that stuff out as he was on his decline in-ring, unfortunately for him. But his goofy heel stuff pre-nWo and his face stuff as one of the guys leading the line against the nWo is really good and he's versatile as a character there. His Total Package/Totally Buff stuff was good, too, and that was like a modernized version of The Narcissist. His ring work and promo/character work just never lined up for him at the right time, on top of things never really lining up for him in terms of being at the right place, right time.

Lex seemingly got more charismatic as his career went on. the Sting/Luger team in '96 was amazing. anti-nWo Luger was pretty bland, but insanely over. Totally Buff Lex was pretty good for the material. but, of course, his best promo ever came after WCW was over:

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

14 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I'm in the camp where I can't sit through the Iron Man Match again. I didn't hate it but it's not a classic for me. If I am dedicating an hour to one match I need it to be really great. So WM 12 is definitely a contender for worst. 

-WrestleMania 2000. Does the ladder match save the show? I don't think so. It's good but not nearly as fun as TLC at WM X-7.  I suppose Angle/Jericho/Benoit is another highlight. The main event is just really weird, it's like they could never really settle on what they wanted and it just turned into a bloated slog with too much McMahon influence. 

Pretty sure WM 26 is a one match show with Undertaker vs. HBK. Maybe I need to revisit that one someday.

It seriously took me three attempts to get through the Iron Man match on the last rewatch. The problem is the first 25 minutes are pedestrian and the last 35 are pretty damn great. Why not just do a longer, modern version of Savage vs. Steamboat and have a great 35-40 minute regular one fall match with a bunch of nearfalls? It made no sense as to why they needed to do one. Like when Piper made the match in the leadup, it didn't make sense because Bret and Shawn hadn't wrestled each in like 3 1/2 almost 4 years. They never made mention of the fact they wrestled at Survivor Series 1992. Piper is just like WE AINT GONE HAVE NO FLUKES! Uh, what?

7 minutes ago, Pedro said:

This is a good storyline but it totally eliminates the surprise factor.  If Lex and Yoko have even the slightest beef with each other and every other person who tried to slam Yoko failed, it would be obvious that Lex would show up and do it.  

That's what I want! You need a groundswell for someone to do it as opposed to no one giving a damn about it. You need a protagonist and not one to just show out of the blue. The pop that Lex got when he did was one of "well, that was fun" as opposed to "Goddamn, this guy is our hero". You can see him slowly lose steam as time moved on because it didn't happen organically.

Quote

To have everyone in the WWF and I believe some weight lifters/NFL stars try and fail and then Lex show up in the Helicopter it was a 100% shock to everyone in attendance and anyone who found out about it on TV. In fact one could even say it may be one of the biggest unspoiled WWF/WWE surprises of all time.

Anyone who tells me they knew Lex would be the guy to slam Yoko would be full of crap. Nobody knew or expected it. And that was the absolute beauty of it.

It also didn't Luger going forward because they didn't have any build towards. You got the shock, but nothing substantial from it. Luger didn't become a much bigger star from doing it simply because it happened off TV and no one had the slightest hint it happened. Their house show and live event business was still in the toilet.  I would say that was the biggest mistake at that time other than Diesel winning the belt at a house show. Granted, I know they wanted Diesel to win it at MSG, it totally fucked up building towards that.

[AaronMLuke]

On 7/10/2022 at 3:09 PM, nate said:

Booker t, buried alive

 

 

[TheVileOne]

Does anyone know what happened here? Did Liv Morgan potato Natalya by accident or something?

[The Natural]

8 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That all begs the question, what IS the WORST WrestleMania of all time??

I have a few candidates floating around in my head but I'd like to hear more thoughts from the board.

 

10 hours ago, The Natural said:

WrestleMania X is in my top five WrestleMania of all time with X-Seven, XIX, XXIV and XXX.

WrestleMania IX is still my pick for the worst WrestleMania of all time. The rest of the bottom five is made up of I, XI, XV and XXIX.

 

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I think WM32 is right up there with the worst, it's been mentioned a few times now and I do remember hating it. 

The main event really sucked and the best match is probably the women's triple threat but in my opinion Sasha Banks should have won there and not Charlotte so there's just a lot of things I dislike about the show. 

Here's some other candidates: 

-WM 11 I don't remember much about Shawn vs. Diesel and 1995 is the start of a dreadful period for WWF. Those couple years were rough. 

-WM 15 This really sucked too, bunch of short Attitude Era bullshit and they tried to hang The Big Bossman. The Rock vs. Austin is decent but it ranks 3rd for me in their trilogy. 

There's a couple other contenders I'm thinking about..

Still annoyed Sasha Banks didn't beat Becky Lynch and Charlotte to crown the first WWE Women's Champion at WrestleMania XXXII. That and the WWE Intercontinental Championship Ladder match surprisingly won by Zack Ryder are the only things worth seeing. Triple H vs. Roman Reigns went way too long. Cesaro and Rollins missed the show with injuries. Should probably switch that with XXIX.

WrestleMania 2000 is another contender for the title IMO.

[Nineteen]

It probably ranks around middle of the pack but watching 32 as it aired was a pretty miserable experience. After the surprise Ryder win it was.... kind of average after with Jericho/AJ being kind of a let down and not much really feeling that engaging. Ambrose/Brock sucked all the air out of the room for me and my friends since we had really high hopes for that one. Ditto Sasha not winning. Like Charlotte winning makes sense but to the fans she was the third option in that match. And enough ink has been spilled about all 27 excruciating minutes of Roman vs. Hunter.....

At least the Cronenberg as hell entrance and Steph as Sindel was neat.

And I'm reasonably sure Rock was on drugs that night.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Nineteen
typo

[HumanChessgame]

I haven't rewatched 9 in years, but I kind of have a soft spot for it as it was the first Wrestlemania that took place since I'd started watching wrestling the previous year.

WM 32 taking place the night after one of the better Takeovers further accentuated what utter dung it was. I didn't keep up with WWE from 04-10 or so, but at least those cards hadn't reached the half-day slogs that they've been in recent years.

[DreamBroken]

I thought 34 & 35 had more bad than good, two of the lower WMs IMO not likely to rewatch. 35 had a terrible back half with an awful retirement for Kurt, Balor/Lashley going under 5 mins, and I never cared for that main event. I was mind boggled when Tommy Dreamer recently called 35 one of his top 5 fav events ever. 34 started good and then just kinda trended downwards. 

[Ziggy]

I became a fan at the tail end of '95 early '96 so Wrestlemania 12 was the first Wrestlemania I lived through. I was a huge Shawn Michaels fan and I was excited about Warrior coming back because I watched Wrestlemania 8 several times growing up because my older brother was already a fan and had the tape. Me my brothers and my cousins were huge fans especially as the NWO formed. I was a diehard fan though but we watched that Ironman match and believed it was a great match maybe because the company told us is was but as I got older and got exposed to other wrestling like Puroresu and British Wrestling and Ring of Honor started having 1 hour matches  and even WWE started having more Ironman matches then the Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels Ironman match wasn't nearly as good.

[SirSmUgly]

7 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

32 is pretty bad. I think Triple H is still working on Roman Reigns' arm.

He did that targeted limbwork at 30, and the same internet that gifted him a fruit basket loved it. It was inevitable that he'd try it again in a big spot and overdo it.

[BobbyWhioux]

7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

And oh, if you're not in the mood to watch the Iron Man match (which has split a ton of people), 12 is easily one of the worst Manias ever. That's coming from someone is still kinda mark for that Iron Man match. The highlights are legit Warrior's crazy ass pop for his entrance (before he undermines it by having an out of place squash match with someone no one felt he should squash)

now, now...

but yeah, 12 is really weak (although Undertaker vs Diesel is 'Taker's first good  Wrestlemania Match so there's at least that)

It does do well to exemplify how the mid 90s were really lean years for the WWF that Wrestlemanias 9-12 are 3 clunkers out of 4

[Kropotkin's Beard]

5 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

I haven't rewatched 9 in years, but I kind of have a soft spot for it as it was the first Wrestlemania that took place since I'd started watching wrestling the previous year.

WM 32 taking place the night after one of the better Takeovers further accentuated what utter dung it was. I didn't keep up with WWE from 04-10 or so, but at least those cards hadn't reached the half-day slogs that they've been in recent years.

I have a similar relationship with Mania 9, most shows I saw rented from the video store, but I had 2 that I owned, Royal Rumble '91 & Mania 9. And when that is all you have available then you're going to watch them to death. DiBiase & Virgil vs Dusty & Dustin, Rockers vs Orient Express, Michaels vs Tatanka, Steiner vs Headshrinkers, Yoko vs Bret & Taker vs Gonzalez are just burnt into my memory. It's impossible for me to not love those shows. To a 9 year old who didn't actually know what chloroform was it was still badass seeing Taker come back from being passed out.

What can I say? If all you have to eat is slop then you'll develop a taste for it.

[Ryan]

I just happen to have a barrel of slop over here, if you're interested.

[supremebve]

Wrestlemania 13 has the best match in WWF history...and nothing else.  Honestly, other than that match has there been a single second of that show that you've wanted to watch in the last 20 some years?

[The Natural]

3 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Wrestlemania 13 has the best match in WWF history...and nothing else.  Honestly, other than that match has there been a single second of that show that you've wanted to watch in the last 20 some years?

Not only the best match in WWF history, I'd say the best match ever.

In answer to your question, the Chicago Street Fight and The Undertaker's entrance wearing his old garb. I haven't watched either in the 25 years since WrestleMania 13 so your point stands.

Edited July 12, 2022 by The Natural

[Technico Support]

I'm glad we're still talking about Mania because I started watching Mania 4 as part of my "watch all 80s/early 90s WWF PPVs" kick, and I'm going to write about it!  Read if you want and I absolutely recommend @Dolfan in NYC's excellent thread where he watches all the Manias. 

This was the first Mania I saw live!  We didn't have cable yet so we went to The Towson Center, the sports facility at my future alma mater, Towson State University (they got all bougie and removed the "state" from the name a few years later) and watched this thing on CLOSED CIRCUIT.  That was pretty cool and it was funny running laps in phys ed in the same building a few years later.

The one and only thing I'll say about the orange elephant in the room: it's hilarious to me that, on a show put on by, and filled with, a lot of carnies and con men, the worst con man of all was sitting at ringside next to a mafioso he later claimed he never met.

We kick off the show with a battle royale and there's not much to say.  It's a battle royale, and it's made up of guys on the way down and guys on the way up.  JYD has deteriorated to the point where he barely lifts his leg on the windup headbutt.  The Hart Foundation is wearing the weirdest gear, one of the only times I remember seeing them without the "briefs" on the outside.  Bad News double crosses Bret to kick off a face turn for the team and somebody should have gimmicked the trophy so Bret could have broken it easier.  BTW looking up Bret on Wikipedia, it says Bret vs Steamboat was penciled in for Mania 2.  Shit that would have been good.

DiBiase vs Duggan: Now the tournament starts.  I was wondering if the selfish, no-selling Duggan that's been mentioned around here recently would show up, but he didn't, probably because these guys are ostensibly pals who go way back.  Decent enough short match.  Fun, logical interference finish from a company that, as we'll see, was really hit or miss in the "finishes that make sense" department.

Muraco vs Bravo: it's crazy seeing these guys who have been around the fed since the late 70s/early 80s trying to stay relevant in this era via PEDs.  Both dudes are just jacked to the gills and Muraco has veins bigger than Duane Gill's arms.  Not much to say here.  Clubbering match that Muraco wins by DQ when Bravo pulls the ref in front of a charge for...reasons?

Steamboat vs Valentine: speaking of guys of the way out.  Jesus.  Unless your name is Hulk Hogan, don't ask Vince for time off.  Decent enough match between two old pros with Valentine getting the win in one of Steamboat's last matches of this run because we can't have nice things (like a Savage/Steamboat rematch).

Savage vs Butch Reed: Alvarez recapped a Savage match last week by noting that his comeback is unusually fast and uneventful, typically 2-3 moves: cutoff, bodyslam, flying elbow.  That's what we got here and Macho moves on.  Like in The Wrestling Classic, the strategy of "put the cameraman on the apron by the stairs during the entrance to get a shot down the front of Liz's dress" is in full effect here.

One Man Gang vs Bam Bam: Another quick match that's just kinda there.  Remember when I mentioned illogical finishes?  OMG wins via countout because the ref keeps counting as he's pummeling Bigleow and keeping him out of the ring.  How does that make sense in kayfabe?  I know wrestling's rulebook is mercurial and nonsensical, but having a guy win on a countout specifically because he's actively keeping the other guy out of the ring is ridiculous.

Rude vs Jake: WTF was this?  I know they wanted to have two double eliminations to cut down some time on what was sure to be an overlong show, but this was not the way to do it.  Even at 13 years old I detested this match.  It's clear they're going the time limit as Rude is just laying on Jake for 85% of this.  Heenan is (storyline) yelling at Rude to go for the win to at least try to bring some life to the proceedings.  Fans are chanting "boring" and even the most postitive fan would agree.  Both of these guys were so talented but this was hot garbage.

Warrior vs Herc: so this is Warrior's PPV debut.  He goes over big with his finish!  Wait.  No.  He pins Herc by lifting his shoulder at the last second on a double pin.  WUT.

Hogan vs Andre: This is the start of round 2.  I can tell you, as a kid, I wasn't hyped for this match.  They'd already rematched in February and also met in the Survivor Series a few months before that.  Hogan/Andre was beyond played out at this point.  I do like how Andre figured out his heel character and essentially became a video game final boss.  His moveset is all chokes and headbuts and his finish is, supposedly, a single underhook suplex -- but it's more like a hiptoss where he falls down.  Anyway, it's still increasingly sad to watch as you spend the match afraid he's going to hurt himself or fall down (which he does at one point and the announcers cover it by calling it a falling headbutt).  In another nonsensical finish, Hogan hits Andre with a chair in front of the ref, and then Andre gets it from him, after what feels like an eternity, and hits Hogan back.  Then the ref calls for a double DQ.  Logically, Hogan should have been DQ'd immediately.  Anyway, there is a funny moment where I legit LOL'd: Hogan and Virgil are fighting in the aisle and Hogan sets up Virgil for a vertical suplex.  Then he thinks better of bumping on carpeted concrete, so he just drops Virgil instead.  LOOOOONG posedown afterward ends my viewing night. 

The rest of round two is next.  Prediction: more Elizabeth boob shots, more dull, short matches.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

Objective, the past ten or so WrestleManias are probably better than the first five or ten, but I’d watch II or IV before I watch one of the XXX’s again.  Last WM I had any real interest in was 29, for Rock-Cena Ii.  After that, it’s mostly just another PLE with slapdash buildups, shows that are entirely too long and “stars” I just don’t want to see,  I didn’t enjoy broken-down Undertaker after the second HBK match and he’s all over most of the cards, as is Bray Wyatt, who I haven’t wanted on my tv since the Husky Harris days.

I expect nostalgia could carry me through even the worst early WM cards.  Late 80’s/early 90’s is really the only era of WWF/E I still have interest in, so in general, I’d probably be more interested in a Money Inc or British Bulldogs match than Batista or McIntyre vs. anyone.

Edited July 12, 2022 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Wrestlemania 13 has the best match in WWF history...and nothing else.  Honestly, other than that match has there been a single second of that show that you've wanted to watch in the last 20 some years?

The Chicago Street fight is a fun mess. I put WM 13 in the same tier as WM X just because you have one or two awesome matches and just a lot of other stuff that ranges between mediocre and just plain bad. For me, it’s hard for me to put it in the bottom tier just because 1997 is my year for pro wrestling. However, it’s clear that March/April 1997 is still very New Generation-ish. They were still trying to shed that.

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

I'm glad we're still talking about Mania because I started watching Mania 4 as part of my "watch all 80s/early 90s WWF PPVs" kick, and I'm going to write about it!  Read if you want and I absolutely recommend @Dolfan in NYC's excellent thread where he watches all the Manias. 

This was the first Mania I saw live!  We didn't have cable yet so we went to The Towson Center, the sports facility at my future alma mater, Towson State University (they got all bougie and removed the "state" from the name a few years later) and watched this thing on CLOSED CIRCUIT.  That was pretty cool and it was funny running laps in phys ed in the same building a few years later.

The one and only thing I'll say about the orange elephant in the room: it's hilarious to me that, on a show put on by, and filled with, a lot of carnies and con men, the worst con man of all was sitting at ringside next to a mafioso he later claimed he never met.

We kick off the show with a battle royale and there's not much to say.  It's a battle royale, and it's made up of guys on the way down and guys on the way up.  JYD has deteriorated to the point where he barely lifts his leg on the windup headbutt.  The Hart Foundation is wearing the weirdest gear, one of the only times I remember seeing them without the "briefs" on the outside.  Bad News double crosses Bret to kick off a face turn for the team and somebody should have gimmicked the trophy so Bret could have broken it easier.  BTW looking up Bret on Wikipedia, it says Bret vs Steamboat was penciled in for Mania 2.  Shit that would have been good.

DiBiase vs Duggan: Now the tournament starts.  I was wondering if the selfish, no-selling Duggan that's been mentioned around here recently would show up, but he didn't, probably because these guys are ostensibly pals who go way back.  Decent enough short match.  Fun, logical interference finish from a company that, as we'll see, was really hit or miss in the "finishes that make sense" department.

Muraco vs Bravo: it's crazy seeing these guys who have been around the fed since the late 70s/early 80s trying to stay relevant in this era via PEDs.  Both dudes are just jacked to the gills and Muraco has veins bigger than Duane Gill's arms.  Not much to say here.  Clubbering match that Muraco wins by DQ when Bravo pulls the ref in front of a charge for...reasons?

Steamboat vs Valentine: speaking of guys of the way out.  Jesus.  Unless your name is Hulk Hogan, don't ask Vince for time off.  Decent enough match between two old pros with Valentine getting the win in one of Steamboat's last matches of this run because we can't have nice things (like a Savage/Steamboat rematch).

Savage vs Butch Reed: Alvarez recapped a Savage match last week by noting that his comeback is unusually fast and uneventful, typically 2-3 moves: cutoff, bodyslam, flying elbow.  That's what we got here and Macho moves on.  Like in The Wrestling Classic, the strategy of "put the cameraman on the apron by the stairs during the entrance to get a shot down the front of Liz's dress" is in full effect here.

One Man Gang vs Bam Bam: Another quick match that's just kinda there.  Remember when I mentioned illogical finishes?  OMG wins via countout because the ref keeps counting as he's pummeling Bigleow and keeping him out of the ring.  How does that make sense in kayfabe?  I know wrestling's rulebook is mercurial and nonsensical, but having a guy win on a countout specifically because he's actively keeping the other guy out of the ring is ridiculous.

Rude vs Jake: WTF was this?  I know they wanted to have two double eliminations to cut down some time on what was sure to be an overlong show, but this was not the way to do it.  Even at 13 years old I detested this match.  It's clear they're going the time limit as Rude is just laying on Jake for 85% of this.  Heenan is (storyline) yelling at Rude to go for the win to at least try to bring some life to the proceedings.  Fans are chanting "boring" and even the most postitive fan would agree.  Both of these guys were so talented but this was hot garbage.

Warrior vs Herc: so this is Warrior's PPV debut.  He goes over big with his finish!  Wait.  No.  He pins Herc by lifting his shoulder at the last second on a double pin.  WUT.

Hogan vs Andre: This is the start of round 2.  I can tell you, as a kid, I wasn't hyped for this match.  They'd already rematched in February and also met in the Survivor Series a few months before that.  Hogan/Andre was beyond played out at this point.  I do like how Andre figured out his heel character and essentially became a video game final boss.  His moveset is all chokes and headbuts and his finish is, supposedly, a single underhook suplex -- but it's more like a hiptoss where he falls down.  Anyway, it's still increasingly sad to watch as you spend the match afraid he's going to hurt himself or fall down (which he does at one point and the announcers cover it by calling it a falling headbutt).  In another nonsensical finish, Hogan hits Andre with a chair in front of the ref, and then Andre gets it from him, after what feels like an eternity, and hits Hogan back.  Then the ref calls for a double DQ.  Logically, Hogan should have been DQ'd immediately.  Anyway, there is a funny moment where I legit LOL'd: Hogan and Virgil are fighting in the aisle and Hogan sets up Virgil for a vertical suplex.  Then he thinks better of bumping on carpeted concrete, so he just drops Virgil instead.  LOOOOONG posedown afterward ends my viewing night. 

The rest of round two is next.  Prediction: more Elizabeth boob shots, more dull, short matches.

Hey! WM4 was the first WM I watched live on TV. I think sometime early on in college I wound up re-watching it and I'm not sure I made it through without fast forwarding. The only reason I went to watch it was that I was on a kick of watching wrestling tournaments having just bought a bunch of AJPW tapes. Imagine going from watching peak AJPW to watching...WM4. 

But remembering back to my time as a kid, Bad News Brown was the baddest motherfucker and he legit scared me, or rather, his finisher scared me. I thought everyone he hit it on suffered brain damage. Him turning on Bret also was the perfect thing to happen to turn me into a very early Bret Hart fan. 

Like, if at some point they wanted to give a world title run to Bad News Brown, I don't think that would have been the worst thing in the world to happen.

Oh, one other thing stands out to me for WM4 - It would be the thing that kicked off my hate for Donald Trump and just that whole venue in general. It just looked like such a dump. The whole thing looked like such dogshit especially compared to WM 1, 2, and obviously 3.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Just wait til you get to Brown-Piper @Technico Support 

[supremebve]

16 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The Chicago Street fight is a fun mess. I put WM 13 in the same tier as WM X just because you have one or two awesome matches and just a lot of other stuff that ranges between mediocre and just plain bad. For me, it’s hard for me to put it in the bottom tier just because 1997 is my year for pro wrestling. However, it’s clear that March/April 1997 is still very New Generation-ish. They were still trying to shed that.

1997 is probably my favorite year of my wrestling fandom, but it's Wrestlemania is kind of the BC/AD cutoff. Bret/Austin was so good that it changed everything that came after. Austin was just the single most perfect wrestler for the time and place. Wrestlemania 13 is a terrible show.  The fact that the street fight is the 2nd best match on the show is proof of that. It isn't bad, but it's a completely forgettable brawl compared to what was going on in ECW or even the Benoit/Sullivan stuff in WCW.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

1997 is probably my favorite year of my wrestling fandom, but it's Wrestlemania is kind of the BC/AD cutoff. Bret/Austin was so good that it changed everything that came after. Austin was just the single most perfect wrestler for the time and place. Wrestlemania 13 is a terrible show.  The fact that the street fight is the 2nd best match on the show is proof of that. It isn't bad, but it's a completely forgettable brawl compared to what was going on in ECW or even the Benoit/Sullivan stuff in WCW.

Shawn losing his smile likely fucked up their plans so there is one legit excuse. They wouldn't have booked Sid vs. Taker, but per Bruce, they wanted to send folks home happy. Even for its faults, 13 at least feels like a company going in the right direction whereas 12 feels like a company scrambling for answers.

[Technico Support]

20 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Just wait til you get to Brown-Piper @Technico Support 

Aw man.  So much of the racist, sexist,homophobic 80s WWF stuff bugs the shit out of me on these rewatches.  With the exception of Mania 3, I mostly ffwd'd through Adrian Adonis' matches because it's so tasteless.  I'll make sure I'm having a drink during Piper/Brown because that shit was gross.

[The Comedian]

Hey bud if it makes you feel better you could think about how Piper used the wrong kind of paint and ended up stuck looking like that for a week or so...