Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Double or Nothing 2022 - Post Show Thread


Recommended Posts

Couple thoughts on the show:

It was the a long show but it was also the most fun I’ve ever had live at a wrestling show. 

Seeing Rancid was rad as fuck

The crowd was hot but there was a lull period. I think the mixed trios and Darby-O’Rielly could have been saved for The Forum.

If that was MJF’s last night what a night. That match was perfect. MJF had Territory Heat. And Wardlow was made last night.

I wanted Page to retain. Punk I don’t think needs the World Title but it sounds like Punk has lead to a lot of finical growth in the company so I guess it makes sense on that end. I think Page could of had a longer run. Forbidden Door being in Chicago Punk as Champ going into Chicago makes a ton of sense. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since I knew the finish of the Adam Cole/Samoa Joe, I wasn't rooting for one guy to win over the other, so I can notice that Adam Cole is fucking awesome and he took a MAN-SIZED beating.  Joe sold the shoulder early and it set up the finish, even if you couldn;t really buy it without the Bobby Fish run-in.  Joe was a fucking machine in this match and it was neat watching them figuring out what they had to throw at this match to make the finish make some sort of sense.  It comes close, but MAN! does Cole take an assbeating and earned his victory.  I loved the slow motion of Joe's GIGANTIC Lariat where Cole just closes his eyes and takes it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

CM Punk winning was good because I think it was time. I'd probably rather have him be heel though. 

He's an effortless enough jackass that it'll be fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couple more random things because I love this thread: 

Brodie King is one of the best people on the roster and I would love to see him have a WCW Vader run as champion with Punk as 1992l93 Sting constantly chasing/trading the belt with him. 

Also relating to 92/93 WCW, I finally realized Eddie Kingston's funny walk always looks so familiar because it's the same hobble Austin used to do to imitate Arn Anderson when the Blondes were feuding with the Horsemen. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

I am the last person to say that my views should be everyone's views. I know I say them firmly and I say them with some level of objectivity but different people like different things. I've definitely stated that I think there's a place in the promotion for Page but that I didn't want him as world champion, and I don't necessarily want to watch his matches unless he's up against someone who can channel it into a direction I find interesting.

I am not going to liken him to Hansen 100% though I think your argument very much likens him to Hansen. There's too much of that New Japan influence there instead, again more 2019 AEW than 2022 AEW. But you make an argument for him that makes him into a sort of post-modern, constantly plowing forward Hansen that's somehow full of self-doubt. And I agree that the most interesting things here were the emotional beats. How did Punk get into Page's head? How did, in turn, Punk go too far until he was off balance as well? What mistakes were both of them making because of that? What did Page almost become? Why did he ultimately fail? I think selling a leg and working over a limb and really focusing offense in that direction with a story in mind is awesome pro wrestling. But having emotional beats like this that actually play into your ringwork takes that to a higher level and so few people do it without it being overwrought or ridiculous. Here it all felt pretty subtle, to the point where it didn't register with some of the people in the thread that watched it. It was still married to traditional pro wrestling norms and a sort of immersive believably. But to me, they still tried (and succeeded) to do something more.

Again, when it comes to me, remember that I'm not as high on Hansen as most people. I think he leaves narrative opportunities at the door by being the utmost of one thing that he can be. He ends up entirely dependent upon his opponents and what they're able to get out of him. He's the greatest tool imaginable in wrestling but if you don't have a vision in mind, you'll just get run over. Thankfully, his 90s work is full of him against guys with vision.

Here's a bit from a PWO thead where I talked about what I felt the difference between Tenryu and Hansen was:

  Hide contents

 

Hansen could be both the rock you could sharpen yourself against and someone who would bring amazing and meaningful selling to the table, if you could unlock it. Page brings that aggression, those bombs, and potentially some really fascinating character work that pulls from things that wrestling doesn't often get to reach for, but again, it kind of feels up to his opponent to bring a lot of that out to the forefront without having it all mired in the downsides and the excesses of modern wrestling.

Oh, by all means I hope I didn’t come across implying that I feel your “views should be everyone's views” and if I poorly come across that way, I terribly misspoke. I enjoy you’re level of analysis and I adore your posts. Especially the demeaned in which you try to speak objectively. (Now you’re obligated to compliment me) *looks down and shuffles my left leg with my hands in my pocket*

 

Yeah, Hangman has Hansen tendencies (cowboy) but he’s far from him in a lot of ways. Stan is an irresistible force or better yet a lineman in a running play. Adam is a video game. A lot of the younger wrestlers in AEW are and maybe that’s the NJPW influence you mention. If you successfully hit A when the knight’s shield is down you can hit B which will lead to holding down the left bumper to strike with A. Let’s just say outside big strike to get opponent on apron, springboard close line, jump to outside, follow up with move. OR reverse power move already outside, backflip off to rope, roll into ring, threaten to Buckshot or follow up with derp. You used the term X-Division last week and that’s very fair, but I think of that term as referring to short term selling and big flip. Hanson’s forward momentum is the nature of Galactus and the way the universe operates. BOTH when successfully controlling the tempo of their offense are using forward momentum, but Page’s is more frenetic while still being strong, Hansen is a fucking bull. Hangman’s offense is often capitalizing after a successful big hit to open up his opponent. 

The nuance of this match is that he was purposely slower to hit B after he hit A, or even after B he would methodically take his time to left bumper-A. It was uncharacteristic in motion, which was characteristic in character. Punk very much was in his head, given the context leading up to the match (which the booking was honestly awkward and deserves criticism). Whether it was an official boo moment, Punk was early to mockingly take his time to be smug after the series of body slams. Whether that was the aha moment or merely how Adam has been acting leading up to the match, he was as a character ~off~. Which I attribute to the self esteem issues that Excalibur pointed out in the opening of the match and his journey within the context of his run in the company. When Hangman does the combo I mentioned that involves the springboard closeline, he is taking his time to stand up. JR complaining about not capitalizing is finally a plot point and not just him being bitter. Hangman is loudly getting cheers, which he wasn’t at the start. He works aggressively to throw him into the guardrail and rub his face in the steel steps. The audience pushes back and Adam does a long champion pose on the apron. Very un-Page and that leads to a follow up chop-off instead of Adam continuing the control of the match.

Both men are limping and neither go for the kill. Their hubris is causing them to make arguably bad in-ring decisions. In this case, it makes the match enjoyable. I agree with you though in that my favorite type of wrestling storytelling is in-ring limb-work and build up from that. Guy is limping, go for the leg. Either that is the limper’s downfall or they overcome their injury. This particular match was an ugly display of pride. Icarus vs Icarus? 

I would say you are very right in that Hangman has the luxury as Champion to face top acts. Maybe this loss drops him down the card and he isn’t facing the Danielsons and the Punks. I did enjoy his Cole match and he is criticized. How will he do against Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy or Shawn Spears in 2022? Maybe it creates trash. That’s the litmus test from having a favorite title run of mine to actually being an all time great.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

-As soon as I saw the Owen brackets, I saw Cole and Britt winning. Britt doesn't click for me anymore. The match with Ruby Soho was plodding per Britt's usual MO. Any chance Ruby had to be someone big in AEW feels gone.  The ceremony with Martha was nice but too long. The belts are really nice.

Both Cole and Baker are victims of being overexposed when they were needed to be the face of a franchise.  Cole's NXT run was really good, and after Ciampa's injury he was the best option to be at the top of the card.  He is a good promo, the crowd was into him, and the matches were always good.  None of that changed, except that it's been 5 years of the same exact thing.  Someone earlier in the thread accused him of never making his opponents look good, which I don't understand at all.  He is willing to bump around, take pretty much any move, and is willing to get his ass kicked.  He's a solid 8 out of 10 at literally everything you want from a wrestler, but he's not a 10 anywhere.  I understand why HHH and now Tony Khan trusts him in these big spots, because the floor for an Adam Cole segment is pretty high, it's just that the ceiling and the floor are kind of at the same level.  Britt is in the exact same boat, they needed someone who could carry an entire division based on her being a great character, and she did it for over a year.  The division is much better now, but at the same time the division is kind of stagnant because she's kind of their only reliable promo.  I like Serena Deeb and Thunder Rosa as much as anyone, but if they start talking, my mind starts wandering.  Britt Baker isn't prime Ric Flair or Dusty Rhodes on the mic, but she's kind of the best they have by leaps and bounds.  Jade is coming along well, but she can still be pretty rough on the mic when she has to do more than a few lines.  I don't think they should put the belt back on her any time soon, but she's still the most compelling person in the division.  Maybe they need to go ahead and get married so they can leave on their honeymoon for a while, but as long as they're around they are going to be near the top of the card, because they're kind of too good not to be.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I don't know who the kid was that came out with Death Triangle, but whichever of you said in the Discord that it was Adam Cole owes me a new screen cover for my new phone because this one is now covered in ginger ale. 

Edited by BrianS81177
  • Like 3
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am so so SO HAPPY that 2.0 got a major spot on a PPV and were a part of a classic. Back when they signed in the summer, I hopped all in on their bandwagon and to see their progression along with Daniel Garcia. That's why I love wrestling. Seeing the small guy get elevated and get their moment in front of 17,000 fans. 😭

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of my thoughts:

  • I liked that a lot of the wrestlers got super special entrances. Made the show feel like a big deal.
  • Thankfully the crowd stayed fairly active and alive throughout the show. I was worried such a long show and so many matches would burn them out.
  • The show was indeed too long. It was basically 5 and a half hours with the Buy-In, which was also shown at AMC Theaters. 
  • Really, it should've lost about three matches and an hour in length. Darby Allin vs. Kyle O'Reilly, Men of the Year & Paige VanZant vs. Sammy, Tay, and Frankie, and really Jade Cargill vs. Anna Jay should not have been on this PPV. Too much and too packed to the gills. 
  • Darby Allin vs. Kyle O'Reilly was actually a decent match, but there was next to no buildup at all and they were basically thrown out there. The crowd was pretty cold on the matchup at first. This really should've been a Dynamite or Rampage main event. It wasn't really PPV-worthy, especially with the lack of buildup. They just put these guys out there to have another match on the card and so Darby could have a PPV match. It wasn't set up well enough. They had almost no heat at the start of the match.
  • Paige VanZant did OK, but that Men of the Year tag match also didn't belong on this PPV. This feud has been terrible, and the booking has been all over the place. They can't seem to make up their minds on if Tay and Sammy are heels or babyfaces. Last night, they worked and acted heel. Frankie turned on them. But the Men of the Year are also heels. None of this makes any sense. Why would Frankie even be willing to team with them in the first place? It seemed the natural storyline change here would be tension between Scorpio and Ethan Page over Frankie. I hope this feud is finally dead because it has fucking sucked for weeks.
  • Not sure what the future holds for Paige VanZant. We'll see if she can hang on her own and in more one-on-one settings.
  • Why is that no one in AEW can properly apply a Sharpshooter? It's not that hard of a move to pull off. Maybe it's the shape of the arms and legs thing. But Sting works for the company. Can he not actually teach these guys and girls how to do it? Even Punk had trouble with it.
  • I guess points to CM Punk for trying, but he cannot do the Buckshot lariat. I get this was a big main event setting with guys wanting to do their opponents' finishers, but Punk is 43, and him doing the Buckshot just isn't happening. Stuff like the Buckshot was never Punk's bread and butter anyway. Plus he's doing it like midway through a grueling match.
  • Other than the Buckshot botches, the main event was very good and had a big, meaningful feel. Hangman was basically nice enough to work as the defacto heel here, with his emotions getting the better of him, harkening back to the period before he became champion. Ultimately, Hangman refused to go full heel and use the belt on Punk, which cost him. I'd call it a good 4* main event. The botched Buckshots and weakass Sharpshooter keep me from rating it higher.
  • I would've maybe shortened the main event about five minutes.
  • I kind of feel the tag team triple threat was primed for a title change, but it didn't happen, especially after Luchasaurus kicked Jungle Boy. I guess they just aren't ready to go there yet.
  • I think Athena is a good signing for the women's division, but I'm not sure why Jade and the Baddies need Stokely Hathaway when they already have Mark Sterling. 
  • Once again, AEW signing lots more people with an overly crowded roster with little TV time and little room. 
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh man, that was the best Britt Baker match I've ever seen.  Ruby Soho, who looks like a gal from Love and Rockets, sold so over the top, it was great.  Soho was great in this match.  Selling the ribs and trying whatever she could to win was a really cool story.  That was really good.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Oh, by all means I hope I didn’t come across implying that I feel your “views should be everyone's views” and if I poorly come across that way, I terribly misspoke. I enjoy you’re level of analysis and I adore your posts. Especially the demeaned in which you try to speak objectively. (Now you’re obligated to compliment me) *looks down and shuffles my left leg with my hands in my pocket*

 

Yeah, Hangman has Hansen tendencies (cowboy) but he’s far from him in a lot of ways. Stan is an irresistible force or better yet a lineman in a running play. Adam is a video game. A lot of the younger wrestlers in AEW are and maybe that’s the NJPW influence you mention. If you successfully hit A when the knight’s shield is down you can hit B which will lead to holding down the left bumper to strike with A. Let’s just say outside big strike to get opponent on apron, springboard close line, jump to outside, follow up with move. OR reverse power move already outside, backflip off to rope, roll into ring, threaten to Buckshot or follow up with derp. You used the term X-Division last week and that’s very fair, but I think of that term as referring to short term selling and big flip. Hanson’s forward momentum is the nature of Galactus and the way the universe operates. BOTH when successfully controlling the tempo of their offense are using forward momentum, but Page’s is more frenetic while still being strong, Hansen is a fucking bull. Hangman’s offense is often capitalizing after a successful big hit to open up his opponent. 

The nuance of this match is that he was purposely slower to hit B after he hit A, or even after B he would methodically take his time to left bumper-A. It was uncharacteristic in motion, which was characteristic in character. Punk very much was in his head, given the context leading up to the match (which the booking was honestly awkward and deserves criticism). Whether it was an official boo moment, Punk was early to mockingly take his time to be smug after the series of body slams. Whether that was the aha moment or merely how Adam has been acting leading up to the match, he was as a character ~off~. Which I attribute to the self esteem issues that Excalibur pointed out in the opening of the match and his journey within the context of his run in the company. When Hangman does the combo I mentioned that involves the springboard closeline, he is taking his time to stand up. JR complaining about not capitalizing is finally a plot point and not just him being bitter. Hangman is loudly getting cheers, which he wasn’t at the start. He works aggressively to throw him into the guardrail and rub his face in the steel steps. The audience pushes back and Adam does a long champion pose on the apron. Very un-Page and that leads to a follow up chop-off instead of Adam continuing the control of the match.

Both men are limping and neither go for the kill. Their hubris is causing them to make arguably bad in-ring decisions. In this case, it makes the match enjoyable. I agree with you though in that my favorite type of wrestling storytelling is in-ring limb-work and build up from that. Guy is limping, go for the leg. Either that is the limper’s downfall or they overcome their injury. This particular match was an ugly display of pride. Icarus vs Icarus? 

I would say you are very right in that Hangman has the luxury as Champion to face top acts. Maybe this loss drops him down the card and he isn’t facing the Danielsons and the Punks. I did enjoy his Cole match and he is criticized. How will he do against Sammy Guevara or Jungle Boy or Shawn Spears in 2022? Maybe it creates trash. That’s the litmus test from having a favorite title run of mine to actually being an all time great.

As we all saw from Coach Tonys 2 am ranting last night, sometimes DVDVR posters can be impassioned. I wasn't implying that you were sullying my good name in any way. I just know I can come on strong and it's good to mention the disclaimer now and again. As always, you are a scholar and a goofball, but at least you're a scholar.

I'd be interested in Page fighting a number of guys next. Probably top on that list is Malachai Black, which seems to write itself both in and outside the ring.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Blue Dragon said:

FUBcVGZWQAAjnrd?format=jpg&name=small

The booking of this fabulous looking Tay/Sammy combo is an absolute disservice to how well they're getting over as heels. Can somebody clarify - was the stipulation that if they lost neither Sammy nor Kazarian could challenge again for Scorpio Sky's TNT title or the TNT title in general?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Matt D said:

As we all saw from Coach Tonys 2 am ranting last night, sometimes DVDVR posters can be impassioned. I wasn't implying that you were sullying my good name in any way. I just know I can come on strong and it's good to mention the disclaimer now and again. As always, you are a scholar and a goofball, but at least you're a scholar.

I'd be interested in Page fighting a number of guys next. Probably top on that list is Malachai Black, which seems to write itself both in and outside the ring.

I’m interested in seeing Black, Brodie, and Pac fighting other people for a while.

Maybe they can do something with Page saving his former Dark Order buddies from a House of Black beat down.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, JLowe said:

I’m interested in seeing Black, Brodie, and Pac fighting other people for a while.

Maybe they can do something with Page saving his former Dark Order buddies from a House of Black beat down.

Now is absolutely the time to start up some new feuds because some of this stuff has felt soooooooo protracted. Joe STILL hasn't responded in-ring to Lethal and co, for example. HOB and Death Triangle plus ATT/Sammy should be considered done and all parties can move on. I like Jurassic Express a lot but they too need a fresh opponent to take the belts off them. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched the pre-show early in the morning, went for a 45 minute run, watched the show until the midway of the mixed trios match, then left for gym/work.

Starting out with MJF coming out to the ring was a nice way to put any doubts to rest early. So far, I enjoyed everything, at least to a degree. And there was a point to Anna vs Jade! To debut Stokey and Athena, respectively! I get it now! House of Black vs Death Triangle was the best thus far. Jesus, Julia, sure took you long enough to get corrupted! She must have been really innocent to begin with, huh?!?

I'll continue tomorrow morning. This way, it won't matter if the show is damned 6 hours long!

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, EVA said:

Ruby should definitely incorporate more Hiromu offense into her moveset; that could be a good comp for her.

And next time Rancid shows up, they could play Time Bomb.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay, I went and moved some stuff for my mother-in-law and came back and watched the Sammy/Tay match.  They are such great HEAT MACHINES~!  I loved Frankie Kazarian trying to reel in the two lunatics he is tagging with.  Paige Van Zant looked good for her first match.  Tay made her look good.  Sammy is so fucking awesome as a total weirdo heel.  Ethan Page isn't channeling Sammy's dad, he's channeling TAY's dad.  It all makes sense when he unleashes his fury on Sammy for sniffing around his daughter.   Kazarian would pop up in the match and do something spectacular in between Sammy and Tay being the GREATEST COUPLE IN THE HISTORY OF WRESTLING!  YOUNG LOVE!  So there were no bad matches on this month long PPV.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

And next time Rancid shows up, they could play Time Bomb.

Well, she hit that fucking BEAUTIFUL Backdrop Driver.  She should three of them in a row and call it  finisher.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I really can’t comprehend all of the Hangman hate in here

They neutered his character & did him real dirty - he's had very little to work with. He's got the looks & athleticism to be a lone-ranger with principles, who's a little whimsical & eccentric but will get down and fight with a gleam in his eye when it calls for it. They could have delivered that by just slightly tapering back on the excessive drinking from before (a la "top athletic prospect finally reaches potential when he buckles down & works for it"). Instead .. I don't really know what the fuck they were going for with him, and they plainly don't either given the hastiness of trying to turn him semi-heel -- which again could have worked in a frustrated SCSA way w/ Hangman being v self aware of how strong he is and abusing it versus his old portrayal of not really believing in his own strength. Bit of a watershed moment for him unfortunately, as there's no clear way back to the top of the card at the moment.

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Darby Allin's make-up makes me think he is joining the House of Black!  JESUS CHRIST!  Darby Allin is FUCKING INSANE. I don;t think he can ever do that again.  Great HAjitajimay by KOR on the normalish tope.  So Kyle O'Riley is the best wrestler in AEW.  He can have a good match with any wrestler on the roster and can work any style.  That match was fucking great.  This is a great PPV if you make a day of it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was a long show, but everything had a purpose, even if a couple of matches could have been moved to Dynamite or Rampage this week. Glad that they are finally going full heel with Sammy and Tay, and wonder what their next program may be (actually don't hate the idea of feuding with Cole and Britt, as they both should be faces at this point anyway).

The six-man tag and Anarachy in the Arena will both have shouts to be in my best matches of the year, and the title matches generaly delivered to the high AEW expectation (though Hangman and Punk have better in them down the road). Wardlow is a star now, and MJF can hopefully take some time off now and maybe mature a wee bit (and he needs to listen to somone wiser to not burn the AEW bridge, as his behavior would get his ass fired/suspended in a heartbeat in Vinceland). On the flip side of that, while I like the work of Adam Cole and the good doctor more than some/most here, they are also great representatives of the company and fitting inaugural champs of an important new event loke The Owen. Not an all-time great AEW pay per view (and a step below the last three), but still dang good and well worth the money.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to see Kriss Stratlander take the TBS title off of Jade by virtue of being the only one strong enough to take her on, then Jade can move on to face Rosa by being the last person to get a win over the champ

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...