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December 2021 Wrestling Discussion


Blue Dragon
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20 hours ago, Zimbra said:

 

Outside of, like, Tiger Mask has there been a successful example of a guy taking over an existing gimmick?

Isn't this somewhat common in mexico with multiple Pentagons and Mascarita Sagradas?

 

Vince selling his house after getting rid of titan towers adds more fuel to the fire that he's looking to sell, maybe he retires to florida.

 

worst match I've seen live is Billy Gunn vs someguy at PCW Ultra  multiple blown spots, guy tried to get a gut wrench something on Billy but couldn't get him up, got thrown over the top rope but got his hand caught in the ropes similar to how cactus lost his ear. Wasn't intentional and the ref had to get him free

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2 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

What's the worst match you've ever seen live? I've probably seen more stinkers than good matches as I've gone to Uncensored 2000, some dreadful early 90s WCW house shows and a couple of ECW shows in the late 90s after they lost a bunch of guys to WCW/WWF. Off the top of my head the worst matches I've seen are the Hogan/Flair YAPAIPAPAIAPAPAPAPPIII Strap match, Brian Adams/Scott Norton vs. Jerry Flynn/Fit Finlay at Starrcade 1998 and an awful Steve Corino/Tommy Dreamer comedy match from an ECW house show in 1998 or 99. The whole thing went on for like 40 fucking  minutes as Corino was doing his old school interview schtick forever and Dreamer interrupted and they went back and forth on the mic. It was mostly just Dreamer shitting on WCW and WWF for what felt like 20 minutes. Then they had a boring ass match. They had to have just been filling time to cover for the lack of bodies to fill out the show. RVD and Spike Dudley was the main event so that should tell you the level of talent that was there.

Spike had one of the most underrated matches ever with Mike Awesome at GAC 2000. My mom who couldn't care less about wrestling got into it rooting for Spike and got upset when he lost. Guess what I'm saying is please don't shit on Spike.

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I was looking through house show results and I apparently saw a Randy Savage/Giant Gonzalez match that I have thankfully purged from my memory completely.

I also saw a Sid/Undertaker casket match that I don't remember but I bet didn't suck

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I was at the first Ring of Honor PPV and I remember Delirious vs. Roderick Strong being not just bad but weirdly bad. It was RoH's first chance with a wide audience it was a weird choice to showcase Delirious in a grudge match that went overly long. I guess the build up to it to was uncomfortable coming off a match where Delirious knocked legit knocked himself out and Strong.... kind of followed up in a bad way.

All that side, the match itself was bad and long but comes off as worse when you factor in the other contexts. 

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On 12/19/2021 at 4:40 PM, S.K.o.S. said:

Here's this month's wrestling crossword. I didn't get a lot of clicks on this. Maybe the tweet should have been more about wrestling and less about crosswords. Regardless:

 


I'd completely missed this until today. It was a nice disctraction! 9:53 for me.

Thanks for continuing to post these every month. I'm a crossword junkie, so having some themed to another hobby is aces.

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1 hour ago, Shane said:


I'd completely missed this until today. It was a nice distraction! 9:53 for me.

Thanks for continuing to post these every month. I'm a crossword junkie, so having some themed to another hobby is aces.

Thanks to you as well, along with everyone else who solves them!

(Thanks also to @AxBand @Phil Schneiderfor the retweets)

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5 hours ago, caley said:

Indy: Probably the one ECCW battle royal where someone got hurt the night before and someone else didn't make it. So the card was shortened to 6 matches, with wrestlers obviously pulling double-duty under masks without even trying to hide it and someone forgot to bring the music so nearly everyone came out to "Rock n Roll All Night" by Kiss which was really funny when the music would stop, then start from the beginning again for the opponent. Main Event was a battle royal with all the same wrestlers who had previously wrestled (I think it was a 7 man battle royal). I think they continued to play "Rock n Roll All Night" through the match, too. Local favourite Juggernaut who was a big 400 lb hardcore guy, stood in the corner chatting to one of his opponents instead of doing something, another wrestler came up behind him and hit him in the back with a double-axehandle type-of strike and instead of selling it, he turned around and yelled at the guy for disrupting his conversation, he then walked over to the ropes, stepped over and eliminated himself and just left. It was honestly one of the funniest things I've seen, but did feel like a waste of $20

I said "worst matches you've ever seen" not "most amazing spectacles you've ever attended".

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In 2018, I saw The Rock & Roll Express fight some masked guys with a Russian gimmick in a cage at a local house show. It took the ring crew like 20 minutes to set up the cage and the match itself was only about 5 minutes. I saw the "Russians" in the bathroom line before the match without their masks on and they looked like two guys who went to a high school near me (couldn't confirm). Nikita Koloff was there signing autographs before and I remember thinking, "I'm in better shape than either of those two guys. Even though I'm black, they could've thrown a mask on me and had me and 60 year old Nikita Koloff go out there in street clothes and we'd be more convincing Russians than those dudes." 

Edited by cwoy2j
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7 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

What's the worst match you've ever seen live?

This wasn't entirely the wrestlers' fault, they worked hard, but in terms of a match falling apart:

Small indie in the late 90s. Ladder match. There was a title belt hanging above the ring, and also a mystery envelope. To win, you could take either the title or whatever was in the envelope.

Face and heel are fighting at the top of the ladder, both fall off, but the belt also becomes partially unhooked and dangles by one end to the point that you could just reach up and grab it without a ladder. Heel is in control of the match, fans are screaming at him to just grab the belt, but he yells back "I can win any time I want" and keeps punishing the face. Well, okay.

Then, after a particularly hard bump in the ring, the belt just falls to the mat. Referee grabs it and sweeps it out of the ring. They announce that the match will now just be for the envelope.

Face ends up winning and celebrates to the back with the envelope.  Never opens it.

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12 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

This wasn't entirely the wrestlers' fault, they worked hard, but in terms of a match falling apart:

Small indie in the late 90s. Ladder match. There was a title belt hanging above the ring, and also a mystery envelope. To win, you could take either the title or whatever was in the envelope.

Face and heel are fighting at the top of the ladder, both fall off, but the belt also becomes partially unhooked and dangles by one end to the point that you could just reach up and grab it without a ladder. Heel is in control of the match, fans are screaming at him to just grab the belt, but he yells back "I can win any time I want" and keeps punishing the face. Well, okay.

Then, after a particularly hard bump in the ring, the belt just falls to the mat. Referee grabs it and sweeps it out of the ring. They announce that the match will now just be for the envelope.

Face ends up winning and celebrates to the back with the envelope.  Never opens it.

That reminds me of how my friends and other people would skirt around ticket scalping laws in Florida. People would go, "I'm selling an envelope with two things in it for $50! This envelope is worth $50. Whatever is in it, I don't care. This envelope is yours for $50!" Just a way to give cops an excuse to look the other way (as if cops in South Florida really need an excuse to look the other way anyway but still).

Edited by cwoy2j
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I haven’t seen too many live shows. Arik Cannon runs a F1rst Wrestling which is always a blast. Seeing a young Air Wolf (Daunte Martin) doing crazy flips in person was nuts. MJF once’s flipped me off. Also watched Jerry Lynn wrestle was cool. Even saw the Great Sasuke! 

Greatest live match is either Mike Quackenbush vs Claudio in 2009 or Austin Aries vs Takeshi Morishima in 2007. The pop when Aries used the combination that beat Samoa Joe was huge. We legit thought we saw a title change ad I threw my hands in the air and looked up screaming. 

Worst: The Sandman vs Horace the Psychopath. Greatest entrance ever followed by dead silence during an drunk Sandman stumbling around the ring being carried by an already blown up Horace. It was an extreme match, the ref wasn’t enforcing rules so a new ref ran in to bring in rules for some reason and was thrown out by the original cool ref who yelled “EXTREME MEANS ECDUB!” The bad guys of the promotion ran out also and had to run into Sandman to make it look like he smashed them back out of the ring. Terrible and sad moment, but sadly my best live memory. 

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5 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I was looking through house show results and I apparently saw a Randy Savage/Giant Gonzalez match that I have thankfully purged from my memory completely.

I had no idea this match ever happened. It had to basically be the same match as Randy/Andre from a few years earlier. Lots of nerve holds the giant and double axe handles from Savage.

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2 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

I remember thinking, "I'm in better shape than either of those two guys. Even though I'm black, they could've thrown a mask on me and had me and 60 year old Nikita Koloff go out there in street clothes and we'd be more convincing Russians than those dudes." 

unfortunately you didn't get your chance to work as "The White Russian"

Probably not related to wrestling but I'm wondering if any of the commercials airing incessantly on CNN also aired during WCW. Although I could see the Cats tape people not buying ads during WCW Saturday Night

 

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Watching the 12/26/83 MSG card in preparation for the anniversary of the Iron Sheik title victory. The early commentator claims about the undercard dudes tonight include "Tiger Chung Lee won every match on a European/Southeast Asian tour recently" and Pat Patterson noting that Salvatore Bellomo speaks 4 languages (French, Spanish, English along with Italian) which even more likely when you consider that Bellomo was from Belgium (of Italian ancestry) and worked the UK.

But yeah, Tiger Chung Lee is also a somewhat memorable "dude who's around 1984 WWF" dude that was working matches in his 70s in 2019.

Also Jose Luis! Rivera won a match over Rene Goulet with a fucked up looking headscissors that was almost a reverse-rana.

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Went to some WWE shows from 2002-2005 and have little memory of them besides Wrestlemania 21. Then a bunch of PWG from 2005-2010, then a bunch of shows at Korakuen Hall in 2010 and 2015. I guess I’m spoiled but I really can’t remember seeing anything that the crowd shat on or that struck me as a disaster match. Not the worst, but maybe the most disappointing one I could think of was Sekimoto vs. Ito in 2015, which was a main event, 15 year in the making battle of the aces, really felt like it should have been a landmark, once in a lifetime epic match for Big Japan but it was a completely run of the mill, go through the motions house show effort match. If you’ve seen one Ito match you’ve seen them all, and Sekimoto looked really uncomfortable and hesitant, like he was doing the company and a favor and just wanted to go home. That was a big tipping point for me in losing interest after being obsessed with BJW for a decade and favoring Freedoms more. I went to a Freedoms show that had Rikidozan’s grandson Chikara Momota wrestling in the opener and for some reason he of all people stood out to me as the worst, most unnatural wrestler I had ever seen. Like so bad to the point I actually thought I as a fan could hop in the ring and put on a better performance than him. The dude made Gorgeous Matsuno look like Ric Flair.

Edited by A.M.B.
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6 hours ago, Phantom Lord said:

had no idea this match ever happened. It had to basically be the same match as Randy/Andre from a few years earlier. Lots of nerve holds the giant and double axe handles from Savage.

That can’t be that bad, can it? I remember liking those matches, and I also enjoyed it when it was Savage Vs. The Giant.

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17 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

What's the worst match you've ever seen live? I've probably seen more stinkers than good matches as I've gone to Uncensored 2000, some dreadful early 90s WCW house shows and a couple of ECW shows in the late 90s after they lost a bunch of guys to WCW/WWF. Off the top of my head the worst matches I've seen are the Hogan/Flair YAPAIPAPAIAPAPAPAPPIII Strap match, Brian Adams/Scott Norton vs. Jerry Flynn/Fit Finlay at Starrcade 1998 and an awful Steve Corino/Tommy Dreamer comedy match from an ECW house show in 1998 or 99. The whole thing went on for like 40 fucking  minutes as Corino was doing his old school interview schtick forever and Dreamer interrupted and they went back and forth on the mic. It was mostly just Dreamer shitting on WCW and WWF for what felt like 20 minutes. Then they had a boring ass match. They had to have just been filling time to cover for the lack of bodies to fill out the show. RVD and Spike Dudley was the main event so that should tell you the level of talent that was there.

Natayla/Emma/Summer Rae vs. Alicia Fox/Rosa Mendes/Cameron or Paige/Natalya/Eva Marie/Alicia Fox vs. Lana/Summer Rae/Tamina/Naomi.

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4 hours ago, A.M.B. said:

Not the worst, but maybe the most disappointing one I could think of was Sekimoto vs. Ito in 2015, which was a main event, 15 year in the making battle of the aces, really felt like it should have been a landmark, once in a lifetime epic match for Big Japan but it was a completely run of the mill, go through the motions house show effort match. If you’ve seen one Ito match you’ve seen them all, and Sekimoto looked really uncomfortable and hesitant, like he was doing the company and a favor and just wanted to go home. That was a big tipping point for me in losing interest after being obsessed with BJW for a decade and favoring Freedoms more.

I mean Ito was never great and had been broken down already for a good 7-8 years prior. Not sure why you would have expected much there. I'm still baffled he hasn't retired yet.

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The best Indy match I saw live was the Aerostar/Drago/Phoenix vs AJ/The Bucks match at Chikara's King of Trios.  Just a fantastic blend of insane spots, comedy bits (AJ vs the ring ropes) and they had the crowd frothing at the mouth by the end.  It was even better because I had brought some friends who were old WWE fans but knew nothing of the Indies and the entire weekend was just mind-blowing for them.

Best WWE match is a weird one but probably one of the Dudleys tag matches from the house shows they did in Portland, Maine in the early to mid 2000s.  I don't know why they always did it, but every time they got the main event and out-worked the rest of the roster by like 200%. I'll always respect them for that.

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