Your wrestling HOT TAKES

[Brandon Bones]

17 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

There should be a moratorium on referees allowing themselves to blow a finish by getting into protracted conversations with people who jump up on the apron. Nothing gets a groan out of me like that. 

My memory is kind of vague on this one example.  As I don’t recall who was in the match specifically. But I believe I saw the match on a Coliseum Video or Prime Time Wrestling.  
 

Anyway, a heel manager was distracting the referee while the heel in the ring did some cheating dastardly shit.  But in a blink and you’ll miss it moment.  The ref kept his head on the swivel and caught the infraction.  Proceeded to get rid of the manager and turned to the action in time to see the heel making the pin.  
 

To drag it out even further.  The ref gets down on one knee in front of the pin and just makes few a nondescript gestures but not a count for the pin.  
 

Later when the dq is announced.  Gorrilla and whoever he was commentating with, called the slomo replay where they point out how sharp the ref was for making the catch when he turned his head.

 

Just to illustrate it a little more.  I THINK the match dynamic was an established heel star vs. a jobber who was probably outmatched anyway.  But the heel shenanigans just happened to cost him that day.  Plus I’m pretty sure the Jobber paid the price after the fact for daring to oopsie his way to getting a check in the win column.

 

If I had to guess it was probably Muraco or Terry Funk.

Edited July 23, 2021 by Brandon Bones
is is

[Matt D]

Harley Race's biggest problem is that he's Harley Race. If he was Bob Orton or even Dick Slater, no one would complain about his matches.

[Technico Support]

18 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

There should be a moratorium on referees allowing themselves to blow a finish by getting into protracted conversations with people who jump up on the apron. Nothing gets a groan out of me like that. 

God I hate this.  I guess we're to assume all refs have no peripheral vision and terrible hearing.

I'd like a moratorium on loooooooooong setups for top rope moves.  If it takes you more than like 10 seconds to get to the top and hit your move, and your opponent is just lying there the whole time, what the fuck?  He's clearly dead, just pin him.

[Eoae]

Just now, Technico Support said:

God I hate this.  I guess we're to assume all refs have no peripheral vision and terrible hearing.

Co-signed.  Though i hate this spot even more when wrestlers do it.  I kinda hate when wrestlers get so involved in arguing the three count they didn't get - when is that ever reversed? - that they somehow fail to notice that their opponent has gotten back to his feet and is obviously trying to sneak up behind them for either a flash pin or to hit their finisher.  

[twiztor]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

God I hate this.  I guess we're to assume all refs have no peripheral vision and terrible hearing

and can't feel the ring bouncing like crazy when someone interferes behind their back and hits their finish. 

[Gordi the BJW fan]

I think this counts as an actual hawt tayk on these boards:

Kenny and the Bucks acting like clueless insufferable dorks who think they are cool is the second-most-entertaining act in pro wrestling today (after Lulu Pencil). The "Belt-Co-Lec-Tor!" chant, the porn staches, the hideous outfits, the shoes, the headbands, the corny insults... they have an endless number of variations on that theme. Respect to them for going all in on the gimmick, all the time.

Whether you like it, or you don't like it... Learn to love it! It's the second-best thing going today!

[John from Cincinnati]

That’s a majority opinion in general, but also on this board specifically. But it’s nice to know that the handful of people with discerning taste make some feel like they’re in the minority. 

@Brandon Bones, I’m gonna go searching for that match. I’ll let you know if I hit on something matching that description. 

 

[BloodyChamp]

This is obviously a knee jerk statement by me but I’ll drop it here anyway - Gary Michael Cappetta is a PUSSYASS lol! He just went straight  Ultimate Warrior on me on FB when I gave him a compliment. Somebody responded that I took the words right out of their mouth and he snapped at them, minus the Ultimate Warrior rant fluff.

[Shartnado]

1 hour ago, BloodyChamp said:

This is obviously a knee jerk statement by me but I’ll drop it here anyway - Gary Michael Cappetta is a PUSSYASS lol! He just went straight  Ultimate Warrior on me on FB when I gave him a compliment. Somebody responded that I took the words right out of their mouth and he snapped at them, minus the Ultimate Warrior rant fluff.

Who pissed in his corn flakes this morning? Jeez!

[caley]

On 7/23/2021 at 6:47 AM, Eoae said:

Co-signed.  Though i hate this spot even more when wrestlers do it.  I kinda hate when wrestlers get so involved in arguing the three count they didn't get - when is that ever reversed? - that they somehow fail to notice that their opponent has gotten back to his feet and is obviously trying to sneak up behind them for either a flash pin or to hit their finisher.  

I dunno, I think this ties into regular sports pretty well. Watch a ton of hockey and it's a semi-regular occurrence where a player will dispute a call with the ref which will never get reverssed or rectified and lose track of his check/get behind the play and get scored on. I'd say that's a pretty realistic element of wrestling as a real sport. 

[Krone]

I hate the WWE set that they use now a days. I miss when RAW, SD, and all the PPV's actually felt unique. I really hope when AEW starts shooting Rampage they can figure out a way to make the stage unique.

Also, I enjoyed the ramp being connected to the ring for AEW, but since they have done it for the past year straight I'm ready for traditional ramps again. I like the ramp connecting to the ring on very rare occasions (Full Gear 2019 - Cody's face plant) but I've seen enough of it to last me a little while.

[BloodyChamp]

Refs running to the ropes to argue has been done to death and that’s my gripe. I don’t think it’s as unrealistic as some people say. In clutch situations where somebody suddenly sticks there nose in, we often march right up to them and just tell them to GTFO. We don’t act calm, we don’t explain why they can’t be there, etc. We just yell at them to git. Then they don’t git, they argue, and in 2 seconds a whole bunch of bad things have happened. But still yeah...done to death. 

[ka-to]

I'm still waiting for the ref that is pulled out of the ring at the count of 2 to call for the bell and say that he saw the shoulders down for 3 and the match is over.

If I ran a promotion now, I would start with so many DQs and count outs just to establish that wrestling has rules.  

[Technico Support]

When I was a kid, refs were sacrosanct.  They'd get accidentally bumped but I couldn't remember a single angle where a wrestler or manager intentionally hit a ref, outside of the Flair/Tommy Young comedy shoving spot.  I mean that shit was unheard of. 

[BloodyChamp]

On 7/26/2021 at 9:52 AM, Technico Support said:

When I was a kid, refs were sacrosanct.  They'd get accidentally bumped but I couldn't remember a single angle where a wrestler or manager intentionally hit a ref, outside of the Flair/Tommy Young comedy shoving spot.  I mean that shit was unheard of. 

That was 1 of the pillars that kept wrestling legit in the middle of all the other heel tactics, cartoons, swerves etc. That explanation might have been the best part of Bill Watt’s book.

I had a PWI magazine as a youngun that was about the rampant disarray that was wrestling officiating. In it were all of the times listed that a wrestler had punished a referee. There weren’t many but there were more than a few. One of them was Hogan complete with a pic of him powerslamming one. 

 

Edited July 28, 2021 by BloodyChamp

[tbarrie]

On 7/25/2021 at 9:21 PM, ka-to said:

I'm still waiting for the ref that is pulled out of the ring at the count of 2 to call for the bell and say that he saw the shoulders down for 3 and the match is over.

I think being able to interrupt a count by pulling the ref out of the ring without drawing an immediate DQ is one of the Attitude Era's stupidest additions to the wrestling canon. And that's saying something.

[BloodyChamp]

On 7/25/2021 at 1:43 PM, BloodyChamp said:

This is obviously a knee jerk statement by me but I’ll drop it here anyway - Gary Michael Cappetta is a PUSSYASS lol! He just went straight  Ultimate Warrior on me on FB when I gave him a compliment. Somebody responded that I took the words right out of their mouth and he snapped at them, minus the Ultimate Warrior rant fluff.

This just happened again lol 11-1-24. He must be losing it. 

[just drew]

Thx for reviving this thread, bc the South has somethin' to say. And by the South, I mean your boy.

Adam Cole is 100% a product of hype surrounding nXt black and gold circa 2017. Beneath the dope-ass entrance music and promotors insisting he's something special... he's nothing special. In fact, he fucking sucks. Other than Bobby Fish, he's the least talented UE alum. There is nothing special about him other than a certain small, vocal segment of wrasslin' internet insisting that he is, in fact, special.

More hot takes, because Drew is 9 White Claws in and this is the first night this week I haven't had candy related festivities with Little Drew;

Fuck the Young Bucks. There has never been a single bit of data to suggest that they have a positive impact on AEW's ratings. They're vanity workers to the most extreme, detrimental degree. They've never made anyone's television better, and often make it actively worse with their bullshit takes to the camera and refusal to sell. Their insistence on being dominant alongside Kenny Omega cost us an S&O title reign, which in and of itself should be enough to have them banished from tv screens.

Triple H isn't a better booker than Vince. The mid-card is still shit and the tag division might be actively worse than it was before the TKO merger. The PR  division of WWE has been working overtime to convince the public that it's a new era, and they're doing an excellent job with that. Also, the women's division on the main roster is dogshit, and that's directly on Hunter. Fuck him.

Fuck Adam Cole. He's a shitty worker and a completely unimaginative promo.

Jon Moxley is by far the most compelling former Shield member. Seth Rollins is completely devoid of "interesting" and Roman Reigns, while a great WWE style worker, can't even get close to Mox on the mic. Also; Triple H is a fucking idiot for thinking Rollins was more qualified to build around than Mox. Fuck that dummy. HHH. Not Mox.

nXt isn't special. Oba Femi is. That guy has a golden ticket. Everyone else is average as fuck. 

AEW should take a flier on TAFKA Enzo Amore. He's 100% "entertainment" and they could use a guy like that. AEW has 125 Tarzans. They could use a Jane.

Mercedes Mone is almost entirely a media creation. She isn't a good wrestler.

 

[BobbyWhioux]

tl;dr:  Countouts and Disqualifications need to become Title-changing match results.

 

On 7/27/2021 at 8:16 AM, tbarrie said:

I think being able to interrupt a count by pulling the ref out of the ring without drawing an immediate DQ is one of the Attitude Era's stupidest additions to the wrestling canon. And that's saying something.

Ah, but that's only half of the problem.  The other half of the problem is this era (and you can put a lot of it on ECW, sad to say) introduced the pandering idea of No DQ as a default state.  Which was itself a mere band-aid on the gunshot wound of overuse of "The title can't change hands on a DQ/CO" for all those years.  Fans learned that DQs and COs are just something they do when they don't want to give us a "real" result.  The DQ itself became seen as an inherent rip-off nonfinish, and then wrestling basically admitted it and threw DQs under the bus.

So refs might as well not even be out there now, because much like how security guards aren't actually cops and thus can't really arrest you, referees can't really enforce any rules because "the fans didn't pay to see Countouts."

Gotta let refs actually disqualify people and count them out.  In turn,  gotta retrain the audience to accept DQs and Countouts as acceptable results.  Which means you gotta start treating them with the narrative weight of real wins (and wrestlers being mad about them like real losses).  Basically, belts changing hands on countouts and disqualifications needs to be the new default state for a while.  The "well why doesn't the heel champ just immediately headbutt the ref as soon as the bell rings every time and keep his belt forever?" loophole needs to be boarded up.

Let's put those constraints back on and force some fresh ideas in the Fuck Finish Department.

And yes every once in a while the ref needs to catch the foreign object during pre-bout instructions and declare the heel to be in forfeit before the match even starts.  Just so fans know it can happen.

 

[zendragon]

One of the problems with modern wrestling is you have this sort of binary where you have guys like Bobby Fish and KOR who are pseudo faux-MMA guys who are dry as a witches tit who seem so have subscribed to the idea that you can get over on work alone ala Benoit. That worked for him in the 90's because you didn't have a ton of high workrate guys in the US.

Then you have the other end of the binary where you have these meme wrestlers like Luigo Primo who think all wrestling should be is comedy bullshit. Everyones in on the work so likes just treat it like a big fucking joke.

More wrestlers need to be like ZSJ where yes work is important but you need personality you can bite into

[Technico Support]

Counterpoint on the Adam Cole hate: he’s a very good heel and that’s how he should be booked.  When he’s this small, arrogant, cheating, conniving piece of shit, he’s so good.  Heel Adam Cole’s PWG world title run was excellent.  It was like MJF if MJF was a real heel instead of Pro Wrestling Heel from a sitcom.  The problem is that we’re in this postmodern thing where fans really appreciate someone’s heel work and end up babyfacing them.  NXT ruined Cole and made him a cool heel, then a babyface.  If he could drop the singalong and bullshit and really be a heel, he’d be awesome.  Shit, put him in Mox’s group.  They have enough tough guys.  They need a cowardly piece of shit who acts tough and then cowers behind Claudio when things get tough.

P.S. I really do enjoy the Bucks and don’t want to get into that.  They’re a real divisive subject here and nobody is swaying anybody.

[Technico Support]

My hot take: FTR sucks.  They’re technically proficient and dull as dishwater.  You talk about the faux MMA guys and the guys whose gimmick is just “good wrestler” but then FTR gets a pass.  I guess they avoid getting painted with the “boring guys working the great technician gimmick” brush because they cleverly pile a “we luv Tully, Arn, and the Midnights” gimmick on top of that.  Everything about them feels so insincere and in a world where 99% of the time, what they do is a seen as a goofy gimmick (see the Outrunners), it just bugs me to see the praise these guys get.  My best guess is that pandering to Cornette and his ilk helped them a lot.  They’re a joyless tribute act that almost everyone decided to take seriously instead of seeing them as the carny ripoff artists they are, and I +10 most of their shit.  It’s like the academy decided to give a Grammy to Cyanide: A Loving Tribute to Poison and all the music fans went along with it.

Edited November 2, 2024 by Technico Support

[BloodyChamp]

I’ll say that I don’t know who the better booker is between HHH and Vince, but that it doesn’t matter. Vince is underrated as a straight on booker and for HHH to be less than him as a booker doesn’t make HHH a bad booker.

[Ramo2653]

6 hours ago, Technico Support said:

My hot take: FTR sucks.  They’re technically proficient and dull as dishwater.  You talk about the faux MMA guys and the guys whose gimmick is just “good wrestler” but then FTR gets a pass.  I guess they avoid getting painted with the “boring guys working the great technician gimmick” brush because they cleverly pile a “we luv Tully, Arn, and the Midnights” gimmick on top of that.  Everything about them feels so insincere and in a world where 99% of the time, what they do is a seen as a goofy gimmick (see the Outrunners), it just bugs me to see the praise these guys get.  My best guess is that pandering to Cornette and his ilk helped them a lot.  They’re a joyless tribute act that almost everyone decided to take seriously instead of seeing them as the carny ripoff artists they are, and I +10 most of their shit.  It’s like the academy decided to give a Grammy to Cyanide: A Loving Tribute to Poison and all the music fans went along with it.

I can't say they "suck" because in the ring they're good wrestlers (which makes their OG NXT team name make sense) but their overall act and presentation is goddamn awful. They do come off as completely fake and made up. Dax whining about his family just makes my eyes roll super hard.

My hot take is that wrestling needs more awkward moments in the ring. Give me a strike exchange the breaks down into near slaps or someone screwing up lifting up their opponent. These are human bodies! They're shaped differently and awkward! You're going to mishandle someone! 

My other hot take is that matches could stand to slow down a bit. It's one of the things I like the most when I watch old stuff. 

[just drew]

To me it almost feels like FTR is afraid to show too much personality. There are times when they seem to really be having fun, then they remember that "oh wait. This is serious business." Then they cycle back into their pretentious tag spots and formulaic matches. I like when they show some personality with the Outrunners, or when they can brawl a little more like the S&O rivalry or with the Briscoes. They're very, very good. I wish they'd let their personalities out a little more.