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DECEMBER 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

I may not remember this correctly, but I thought that Netflix doesn't give a shit about wrestling. It's possible Glow could have changed that. 

The other issue is that it looks like Netflix is getting out of the weekly TV stuff because they've canceled everything that had a weekly format. Maybe AEW wouldn't need to be weekly and instead could do seasons of TV, but I don't think that will work. 

Have they canned Hasan Minhaj already? That's disappointing. He's the only one of these topical comedy shows I've heard spoken about in real life recently.

Netflix may have held opinions against wrestling at one point. But now they're going broader than ever demographically and they need a constant stream of new originals which won't cost a fortune and exacerbate their ever-worsening debt situation. They shouldn't be too eager to stick their nose up at the Elite's built-in following. 

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That was Smackdown's punishment for getting over on its own.

I'm surprised Netflix didn't try to pick up Lucha Underground considering they were showing the first seasons. Then again given how abysmal the current season apparently is, that's probably not a big loss.

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17 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

That was Smackdown's punishment for getting over on its own.

I'm surprised Netflix didn't try to pick up Lucha Underground considering they were showing the first seasons. Then again given how abysmal the current season apparently is, that's probably not a big loss.

I finally got around to watching Lucha Underground when the first two seasons were on Netflix. Is it worth watching going forward?

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I got about 3 or 4 episodes into the current season and lost interest. Several people who were a much bigger fan than myself said it's gone way downhill.

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How are you guys feeling about the name AEW by the way? Im not in love with it as an acronym but if they just call it "All Elite Wrestling" much in the same way as Evolve or Impact then I'd be cool with it

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Anything that I can say to someone IRL without being completely embarrassed is good enough for me.

I hate when my friends ask about that "T&A wrestling thing".

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16 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

How are you guys feeling about the name AEW by the way? Im not in love with it as an acronym but if they just call it "All Elite Wrestling" much in the same way as Evolve or Impact then I'd be cool with it

Personally, I prefer when the last word in the name is not Wrestling, so you do not have the old "the WCW" issue. 

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I'm not crazy about All Elite Wrestling, but I think Elite Wrestling sounds fine. 

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36 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'm horrified imagining a fed that's all Elite. Haven't we suffered enough? 

Maybe you have. Being the Elite is the best thing on Monday nights next to Seinfeld, and ROH on Fite TV.

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8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Maybe you have. Being the Elite is the best thing on Monday nights next to Seinfeld, and ROH on Fite TV.

If you're watching ROH every week, you're basically a masochist. :P 

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I'm not thrilled with the AEW name, but it's fine. I just think that if you're not WWE then you need a name that stands out. To that end,  I love the Evolve and Progress names. 

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4 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

If you're watching ROH every week, you're basically a masochist. :P 

I enjoyed last week's show with Christopher Daniels vs. Kenny King, Adam Page vs. Facade, SCU vs.Guerrero Maya Jr., & Stuka Jr. The build to Final Battle has been really good, and I'm really looking forward to it. I used to be an ROH die-hard and regular at the NY/NJ/PA shows, and while they'll never be at the quality level of Gabe's days again, they've been putting on some enjoyable shows lately. I'm very critical of them when they fuck up, but able to compliment when they do some good.

 

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7 hours ago, Loki said:

I finally got around to watching Lucha Underground when the first two seasons were on Netflix. Is it worth watching going forward?

I'd cherry-pick matches. Segunda Caida's reviews are a good source for that. Off the top of my head the Killshot/AR Fox death match, any casket match, and pretty much all of the series finale are worth watching. Basically the bigger the stip the better.

Yeah, I said series, not season. I know rotten meat when I smell it

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I don't know if it is because wrestling companies can't do basic story telling now. But watching 94/95 WCW and I am really enjoying it. Stories that make sense within their own world, clearly defined characters and decent action. I suppose the Dungeon Of Doom is silly, but compared to Lucha Underground and other indies, it is UWFI. 

Going out and aggressively signing talent like Malenko, Benoit and Eddy along with the luchadors was a great move. Kevin Sullivan knew what the the company needed and how to satisfy various egos. That WCW went to hell after getting rid of him in creative says a lot. 

I think he could have righted things in 2000, since he was not trying to fix things over night. 

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17 hours ago, Craig H said:

The other issue is that it looks like Netflix is getting out of the weekly TV stuff because they've canceled everything that had a weekly format. Maybe AEW wouldn't need to be weekly and instead could do seasons of TV, but I don't think that will work. 

Honestly, this is the problem if AEW does it that way: AEW's one benefit is they have a nucleus of people who'd always be there.

A Netflix-style "2-3 seasons a year" style would work better for something like Impact: They could just sign people from season to season, put up one taping spree every couple months and let people binge the whole thing. If someone gets noticed and signs with WWE, then they just get crossed off the list next season as if nothing happened.

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Hey, so if Kane gets super angry whenever anyone says May 19, does that mean he's going to be out of control for a whole month next year? May '19?

Also, all the Smackdown men's titles are held be heels. Maybe they should all form a stable, like an international version of the Four Horsemen. 

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On 12/5/2018 at 3:54 AM, Six String Orchestra said:

I guess I should clarify somewhat, I've listened to Cornette talk about production during his tenure with ROH and about how to present a weekly show, I kinda agree on some of it. I've had people who watched wrestling before see some of the stuff he bitches about tell me "this is why I stopped watching". He clearly is not able to accept where wrestling is currently. He is stuck in this 80s mentality and is so over the top that he cannot be taken seriously. Basically I get his hate for Joey Ryan and think he's being a angry old man when he talks about NXT, PWG, etc.

I totally get where you’re coming from, but one can clearly see that Cornette’s the way he is because of how the territories died. As a wrestling fan who is on record as despising WWE and fully intent on never giving the McMahons a dime again, I’m terrified at the prospect of becoming Cornette once the indies are wiped out. He may be an old man yelling at clouds, but honestly, I sympathize with him.

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Update regarding Jim Duggan's health from last month

Quote

The situation with Jim Duggan last week where he was in intensive care was somewhat explained by Duggan to TMZ. He said that he was feeling out of shape, felt a pain in his chest and went to the hospital where he was diagnosed with atrial fibrillation, basically an irregular heartbeat that could have been disastrous. He had six to eight people working on him. He didn’t go into detail but we were told the situation was very scary at one point. Duggan said that he knew something was wrong but he was scared to go to the doctor. He said that if you feel like something is wrong, go to the doctor because it may save your life and he noted it may have saved his life

 

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We talked about the WWE flipping Takeover and the Hall of Fame ceremony in the NXT thread but this one point is non-NXT related so I will mention it here.

In the newest WON - Dave says the other reason for the change could be (besides avoiding the NJ/ROH MSG show) is that they got the Rock to agree to the Hall of Fame and that is the date he was available. (It could be also be a little from Column A and a little from Column B)

I bolded the "could be" part just to make sure people understanding that it is a theory not a "Meltzer says the Rock is going into the Hall of Fame"

Dave does say that The Rock is pretty much the only name that could cause them to move the date and it was definitely a late change because Triple H was still talking about Takeover being on Saturday less than a week ago.

They obviously have been trying to get him (the Rock) for the last few years for the Hall of Fame

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19 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'm horrified imagining a fed that's all Elite. Haven't we suffered enough? 

NO. All Elite, All The Time.

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9 hours ago, Victator said:

I don't know if it is because wrestling companies can't do basic story telling now. But watching 94/95 WCW and I am really enjoying it. Stories that make sense within their own world, clearly defined characters and decent action. I suppose the Dungeon Of Doom is silly, but compared to Lucha Underground and other  indy story lines, it is UWFI. 

Going out and aggressively signing talent like Malenko, Benoit and Eddy along with the luchadors was a great move. Kevin Sullivan knew what the the company needed and how to satisfy various egos. That WCW went to hell after getting rid of him in creative says a lot. 

I think he could have righted things in 2000, since he was not trying to fix things over night. 

I really feel like Kevin Sullivan got a bad rap from the stuff with Benoit and Woman in one of those weird things where people thought Kevin was going to get professional revenge for the whole thing when he got power back.  It seemed pretty baseless considering Kevin ended up taking most of the falls in the actual feud when Woman left him for Benoit.

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9 minutes ago, Goodear said:

I really feel like Kevin Sullivan got a bad rap from the stuff with Benoit and Woman in one of those weird things where people thought Kevin was going to get professional revenge for the whole thing when he got power back.  It seemed pretty baseless considering Kevin ended up taking most of the falls in the actual feud when Woman left him for Benoit.

Kevin Sullivan with a filter is one of the great minds in wrestling. However, it's like the brilliant artist who is creating a masterpiece and needs a guy with a baseball bat standing behind him to hit him over the head when it's finished before he spoils it with self-indulgent nonsense. Sully really needs that guy standing behind him.

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This Sullivan talk got me to thinking - who was the best WCW booker then? I know this is a hard question because shit was constantly rotating and there were booking committees but who generally gets the credit for the '96-97 years? You could make a case that Sullivan was the best booker they had. I mean, even the garbage '95 DoD stuff was at least following along the tried and true Hogan formula, albeit to diminishing returns. 

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