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JULY 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

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3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Because I am a dick and I like to make certain people's eye twitch because they can't believe Vince is this stubborn

Per the new WON

       Quote

And there’s also the pro wrestling end of all this.

From the pro wrestling side, there is a lot of maneuvering going on regarding what is next for Lesnar and the Universal title.

Lesnar is being advertised on the Raw after SummerSlam at the Barclays Center, as the key player on that card. Logically one would infer that Lesnar’s return would be at SummerSlam, but that has not been confirmed.

Logically, the Bobby Lashley vs. Roman Reigns match is for the winner to face Lesnar, yet, that also has never been said, and would add to the interest in the match this coming weekend if it was announced that way.

With Lesnar being all over the sports world for the angle with Cormier, it was shocking that the angle, nor Lesnar at all, were mentioned on the 7/9 Raw show. That was, as everything is, a directive straight from Vince McMahon.

It appears McMahon is adamant in creating the idea that Lesnar has walked out, is going to UFC, turned his back on the WWE fans, and isn’t coming back to drop the title and holding up the belt. The idea would seem to be to create a storyline that gets Reigns cheered at the Barclays Center. This storyline has, in fact, gotten Lesnar more hate, but also made him less over. Perhaps being big in UFC plans and in the mainstream news again will reverse that a little. It also hasn’t gotten Reigns cheered. But everything that is taking place as far as the pro wrestling end is being dictated by McMahon, and not Lesnar, who is under contract at least through the end of August.

From the outside, it appeared the idea to not mention Lesnar, his angle with Cormier, and that Reigns and Lashley are fighting to take his title, on the show is not taking advantage of something hot in the real world.

At the production meeting before Raw, McMahon told everyone that the show in Boston is to focus completely on building Extreme Rules, a show Lesnar isn’t on, so his name wasn’t to be mentioned. Reigns, in a promo late in the show, went in a direction where his name should have been mentioned, and then didn’t.

McMahon said that they will start talking about Lesnar “When he’s being offered to our audience and we can capitalize on it.” 

This angle would have gotten over like gangbusters 35 years ago.  In Memphis.

Now, it only works if your fanbase is kinda dumb.

 

 

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1 hour ago, CreativeControl said:

C'moooon, I don't particularly like Punk but that run in ROH was fantastically well put together

Yeah, but OTOH Figure It Out was a great show. Did the Summer of Punk have a trained dog riding a tricycle? No.

Plus, Big Show got slimed. For being really tall, but still.

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WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!?!?!

WHERE’S MELTZER?!?!??

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43 minutes ago, Player One said:

This angle would have gotten over like gangbusters 35 years ago.  In Memphis.

Now, it only works if your fanbase is kinda dumb.

 

 

Therein lies the problem. In some regards, they want to act like the auidence is still completely in the dark and kayfabe isn't dead. Then, you have shows like Total Divas, Miz & Mrs., and being all over Twitter, Instgram, etc. that pull the curtain back and show that while these are trained athletes, they are actors to a degree acting out parts. You can't have it both ways. You either want the auidence in on it or you're Jim Cornette yelling at clouds.

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The sad thing is, Vince is actually right about Brock not giving a shit and effectively putting their plans on hold. You can't really blame him for the grievance, only how he deals with it. 

Seeing that "family photo" with Immortan Joe again makes me give no shits about any of this however. 

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I think the opposite though. Brock doesn't give two shits either way as long as he's getting paid. I think he'll do whatever they want him to.

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Oh, I agree. That's not gonna stop Vince for being pissed at him not thinking of WWE first/at all, though. 

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2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

ROH Summer of Punk absolutely deserves to be ranked so highly. Summer of George at #1 naturally feels right. If we round out the top 10, what makes the list? Summer of Love, Summer of Sam? 

7. summer sausages

8. strippers named "Summer"

9. Bryan Adams's "Summer Of '69"

10. Wet Hot American Summer

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

I feel bad for Reigns, so maybe an injury giving him extended time away wouldn't be the worst thing.

At this point, it's like Vince has a vendetta against the guy. We all think Vince is just pushing this guy to the moon in the dumbest way possible, but in reality he's constantly killing his career and seeing how much Roman will take before he gives up.

For someone who has been as heavily pushed as Reigns (and who so many people say is overpushed), he has three WWE Title Reigns for a total of 118 days as champ. Jinder’s one reign went 170 days by comparison, and AJ’s two reigns are approaching 400 days.  It seems pretty clear Vince thinks the money is in Roman’s chase, but they’ve yet to really get behind him as a champion.

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20 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

7. summer sausages

8. strippers named "Summer"

9. Bryan Adams's "Summer Of '69"

10. Wet Hot American Summer

Good call, although I'd replace Summer of '69 with Leinenkugel's® Summer Shandy®.

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1 hour ago, JonnyLaw said:

For someone who has been as heavily pushed as Reigns (and who so many people say is overpushed), he has three WWE Title Reigns for a total of 118 days as champ. Jinder’s one reign went 170 days by comparison, and AJ’s two reigns are approaching 400 days.  It seems pretty clear Vince thinks the money is in Roman’s chase, but they’ve yet to really get behind him as a champion.

I've always said that the biggest issue with Roman's push is that they want him to overcome the obstacles when in all reality, he should be the obstacle. He's a giant Samoan dude who wrecks people. He shouldn't be fighting from underneath all the time unless he's going up against a guy like Braun.

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The narrative dissonance is just too strong. The story says everyone and everything in WWE conspires to keep him down; most fans believe the opposite to be true. Thankfully, there are babyface archetypes other than "the office doesn't like him"; sadly, the writing team often forgets.

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16 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I've always said that the biggest issue with Roman's push is that they want him to overcome the obstacles when in all reality, he should be the obstacle. He's a giant Samoan dude who wrecks people. He shouldn't be fighting from underneath all the time unless he's going up against a guy like Braun.

Well, there's also the issue of Vince gearing the booking around Roman beating Brock at WM and finally having his (Roman's) WrestleMania moment - and then booking Roman to lose to Brock at WM and a couple other times near WM.

"You can have your WM moment next year, pal.  The fans will still be there for you."

They've chosen some really odd moments to pull back on Roman's push.

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Most fans believe the opposite because Roman has had a million different opportunities. No one is ever going to buy someone that big or with that many opportunities as any kind of underdog or someone being held down by Vince. It worked with Daniel Bryan for obvious reasons. It worked for CM Punk for similar reasons.

Think about this...If Undertaker were 5 or 6 years into his run as Undertaker now, he'd be booked like Roman because that's all creative knows. Imagine Undertaker as an underdog or as a guy who shouldn't be the champion because the authority or whatever doesn't think he'd be a good representative of the company. That is fucking insane.

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Yeah, it was so hilarious when they plugged good ol' Boman into the Bryan slot. I really feel like the most damage CM Punk and his appearance on Colt's podcast was the "make Roman look strong" comment. It was obvious even without Punk's point, but it just made their decision to make it seem like Reigns is the second coming of scruffy li'l underdog Daniel Bryan all the more bewildering and funny. He should have been their golden child, in place of Rollins in 2015, and then he could've turned babyface after a year of two of that but I'm not saying anything 99% of the board has already commented.

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3 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

My eye started twitching around paragraph 3.   

I don't wish injury on anyone, but right now would be a very, very good time for Roman to tear a pec or something that would put him out 6-9 months.   

The "put injury on the table as a possibility" spiel is not cool, to say the least, yet it's something that wrestling fans do far too often.

Besides, rumors about the Lesnar situation is shifting on an almost daily basis. There's no guarantee Reigns is the play for that SummerSlam match, anyway. It could easily be Lashley with Braun swooping in with the MITB briefcase somehow.

I agree that Vince is handling this wrong, but it seems like the point to all this is to bring mainstream attention to WWE. When in reality, it's leaving their flagship show with a core around which to build their narrative, along with Vince looking like a wishy-washy old man even more.

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No one's wishing a career ending injury for him, but he needs to go away for a handful of months. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. The only way Roman is going to get that break is from some kind of recoverable injury. Doesn't make anyone a monster for thinking that.

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Guys we all know how this is gonna go:

 They finally announce Roman vs Lashley as being for a shot vs Lesnar at Summerslam. Roman wins. At the PPV, Lashley interferes and causes Roman to lose to Lesnar. Lesnar celebrates and either that night or the next night on Raw, drops it to Strowman, who cashes in his MITB. People pop massively. Strowman is then horribly mis-booked as champ for the next 3 months, and loses it by the end of the year to Lashley. 

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2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

No one's wishing a career ending injury for him, but he needs to go away for a handful of months. Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. The only way Roman is going to get that break is from some kind of recoverable injury. Doesn't make anyone a monster for thinking that.

We've been absent of Randy Orton for a couple months now. How much more pumped are you for his return now compared to when he went out? 

Absence isn't going to heal Reigns. Reigns has been rejected by the fans at a level that is totally without precedent in professional wrestling. Roman Reigns is going to have to be completely re-invented if he has any chance of success at this point.

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5 minutes ago, Hooker said:

We've been absent of Randy Orton for a couple months now. How much more pumped are you for his return now compared to when he went out? 

Absence isn't going to heal Reigns. Reigns has been rejected by the fans at a level that is totally without precedent in professional wrestling. Roman Reigns is going to have to be completely re-invented if he has any chance of success at this point.

Orton is generally over and liked by WWE's audience.

There is still a begrudging respect of some degree for Roman. A complete re-invention would likely hurt more than help. They just need to let the man be heel.

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15 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said:

Guys we all know how this is gonna go:

 They finally announce Roman vs Lashley as being for a shot vs Lesnar at Summerslam. Roman wins. At the PPV, Lashley interferes and causes Roman to lose to Lesnar. Lesnar celebrates and either that night or the next night on Raw, drops it to Strowman, who cashes in his MITB. People pop massively. Strowman is then horribly mis-booked as champ for the next 3 months, and loses it by the end of the year to Kane

Fixed that for you.

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16 minutes ago, Hooker said:

We've been absent of Randy Orton for a couple months now. How much more pumped are you for his return now compared to when he went out? 

Well, this overlooks a considerable point, when looking at the difference between the two (spoilered for size):

fuck Randy Orton

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Nate is only correct thinker in this thread

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I don't think this was mentioned yet.

 

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