The Wall Street Journal Vince McMahon Thread.

[John from Cincinnati]

2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Jeremy Borash ‘bout to run WWE creative.

Weird way to say Mr Heyman.

[Cobra Commander]

1 minute ago, BobbyWhioux said:

I'm still holding to my prediction that he basically traces Joe Paterno's footsteps.  His life's work in ruins, rightly drummed out of his personal fiefdom in disgrace, and just... doesn't continue.

Vince having cancer and not noticing it until he's gone-gone would certainly be a cinematic turn

but yeah, he had one parent who lived to 101 years old and another parent who died at 69 of pancreatic cancer, so.. Vince is 78 now for the record.

[zendragon]

45 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Vince, should he live long enough, will attempt to control his narrative with a memoir. That's his next and final work.

 

I don’t know if he would take the time to write or himself but I’ve long felt a long form interview or Steve Jobs style book on him would be fascinating 

[(BP)]

Obviously this goes back to who knew what when speculation, but it’s very weird that the Bellas bridged two generations of women’s wrestling in WWE and weren't aware enough to tell their mother not to get involved with Laurinaitis. 

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

 

Good riddance.

[Octopus]

40 minutes ago, Casey said:

Jeremy Borash ‘bout to run WWE creative.

39 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Brian Gewirtz about to run WWE creative, again

37 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Weird way to say Mr Heyman.

[Cobra Commander]

They might need to set a threshold for how close is too close if they're bouncing people for being too close to Vince since there's not exactly a lot of available people who could run a wrestling company that don't have some record of working with Vince.. which can happen when WWE has been the top company for 23+ years in a row

It's sorta like a Eastern European country post-Communism.. or more recently, Libya after Gaddafi

It wouldn't be the craziest thing if it turned out that Triple H being out post-heart failure for a part of 2021/22 turned out to be enough to save his spot.

Also it wouldn't exactly be a free and fair election but i'd figure the front office people close to Vince who were unpopular with talent are getting bounced before the people who are popular with talent.

If the Endeavor people are smart enough to realize that bringing a bunch of new people aboard and pissing off the actual talent in the process is probably a bad combo. The whole skepticism of wrestling people towards corporate suits might become relevant here.

[COLETTI]

He'll be back again, but this time with a weird goatee instead of a pencil stache. 

[Craig H]

9 minutes ago, Coletti said:

He'll be back again, but this time with a weird goatee instead of a pencil stache. 

Bobby Valentine disguise.

[Elsalvajeloco]

PoS trigger warning: Jake Shields

Spoiler

For the folks who think Dana is the issue with the UFC or MMA in general. It is a sport wide issue.

[username]

So I didn't read the complaint (didn't feel like I had the stomach for it) but was talking online with a friend of mine who works as more or less a guidance counselor for at-risk kids as he worked his way through it and what stuck out to him was how much Vince was manipulating everyone he came in contact with in this complaint. The poor woman obviously got the worst of it, but he was even having the woman lie about things to Laurinaitis when they first became "acquainted" and he was quite literally Vince's partner in crime (he learned more later and still continued, that sure as shit don't absolve him). Lesnar comes off as a true asshole but it didn't appear at any point he was aware that this wouldn't be consensual.

 

I point this out as I've seen a lot of people going "of course people knew" and so forth but from reading the complaint what he told me was how much  it stuck out that Vince tried to keep several people in the dark about several aspects of all this, with only some people at a corporate level seeming to really get any sort of clue about this and in all likelihood no idea just how fucking depraved it got. I think it is worth keeping in mind that Vince as a matter of his daily life is probably manipulating everyone around him, lying to them, letting them only now certain bits of info, he's an actual fucking sociopathic predator. The actual wrestlers in the locker room probably thought he was a not a good person (especially after all the NDA stuff came out) but it seems very unlikely that Vince this aspect of his existence, for that particular mask to slip in front of them unless they were bizarrely close, and even then I doubt he was ever anything approaching honest.

[Cobra Commander]

someone else likely knows a lot more about this concept, but I think Vince being a control freak would lend itself to the concept that he knew he wouldn't be in control if just anybody had dirt on him that they could dish out

[piranesi]

I don’t know I feel like if you asked me ten tears ago if Vince was doing something like this to someone I would be like “I figured.”  And I’ve never been within a mile of the guy. And there’s almost no way this a sudden urge and idea he got in 2021.  He’s been doing things Like this for as long as he’s had the ability to probably. And he’s not a subtle guy. And he clearly saw it as a way to deal/coerce/tempt people, one of whom was head of personnel for decades. 
 

There’s just no way to stay and be clean of this  

 

‘stay tuned to Netflix for a moving tribute to the great jimmy Snuka  

 

Edited January 27 by piranesi

[zendragon]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Gentlemen get ready for the first AI booked wrestling promotion 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

I'd think that Vince is slightly more likely to do an RF Video shoot interview than an actual suicide. Now this doesn't rule out him doing self destructive things now that he has money and nothing to do.

Oh god that's the most unflattering way for him to go out and it's definitely most deserved

RF: we're here today with easily the most influential figure in professional wrestling of all time, and thank you for *inaudible*. So obviously, first question, in 1993, you bought Greg Valentine back into the territory *inaudible*, umm, what are your memories of *inaudible mumbling*

 

[Go2Sleep]

This whole thing is beyond disgusting, but the one thing that jumps out to me is the deal with using his victims as bargaining chips to get people to sign. I highly doubt Brock was the first or only.

I actually hope Vince doesn't die any time soon, so he can spill the dirt on any younger and still-benefiting enablers who have something to lose.

[hammerva]

Because I have such little faith in the WWE,  as long as the worst thing that happens to him is a settlement Vince will be back in 6 to 8 months in some form. 

 Maybe we will get lucky and this purge of the old guard people are talking about will help.   As long as Ari Emmanuel is out there I am not optimistic 

[Ryback Hates Bullies]

People are talking about CM Punk, but apparently he eventually wants to take over NXT from Michaels. And if Paul Levesque is pushed out, then hard to see Michaels (or Regal) sticking around, and he could well be running it in 6 months.

Ultimately this is going to leave a dark cloud over a lot of Attitude era footage, which could actually really kinda damage the legacy of Steve Austin, whose big run was almost completely intertwined with 'Evll Vince'. And whilst I think it is vaguely possible to separate Chris Benoit the wrestler with the man who killed his own family (I mean I couldn't really tell you when I watched one of his matches, but still), I think it is completely impossible to separate Vince the character from Vince the real-life person.

Whether it has deeper effects I don't know. I mean Hollywood is a cesspool & well....let me just say 'Instagram Influencers being flown to Dubai' and leave it at that.

Question in my mind is whether Stephanie, Linda or Shane McMahon are willing to really push the button and publicly disavow him. There's this idea that Stephanie can now return to WWE but I just don't see how that makes any sense for TKO unless she's willing & successfully able to position herself squarely as a victim.

Additional: obviously the story/stories is/are appalling, but I don't see much point in adding my thoughts to that. My more casual wrestling fan brother linked part of it to me and said 'a bad day to have eyes'.  

 

Edited January 27 by StretchMediatedHypertrophy

[(BP)]

The thing with the footage that I keep thinking about is a possible criminal case: if prosecutors can introduce song lyrics into cases against rappers, then the Network is potentially thousands of hours of circumstantial evidence. I’m assuming a Vince-level attorney would be able to get that kept out, but if not that one Trish segment alone would finish him. 

[The Comedian]

A lot of shit here to process...

As far as "who knew what", I'm willing to give a broad pass for now. Because I think we all assumed; you, me, John Cena, and everybody else, that there was a culture of quid pro quo sexual harrassment in WWE. And that's already a horrible thing, but it's also a pervasive thing throughout society, and I think all of us collectively just held our nose walking by and compartmentalized it. And I believe it generally falls under tort law, so it doesn't carry the stigma that a criminal act of rape does, even though it should.

But this? This is beyond horrific. This is a man who, upon meeting a young woman whose parents had just passed, his mind immediately went not to any sympathy or empathy, but, "Hey, what a great opportunity to mold my own personal sex slave!" And then proceeded to subject her to rape, gang rape, imprisonment, and coprophilia. You could know full well that Vince was a pervy old man and still not be aware that he was capable of these depths of depravity.

The important thing to me is what comes next. There has to be full mea culpas from Vince's long-time defenders. And the sad thing is there won't be from all of them. I mean, guys like The Rock and Cena who have ongoing careers to think about, it would be in their best interest to make a clean break and make it yesterday. But a guy like Taker? I think you could find a torture dungeon full of womens' corpses in Vince's basement and Taker wouldn't badmouth the man.  I think we'll have to be done with Taker, but then I think a lot of people started that process anyway when they started to realize that he presided over a disgusting locker room culture for decades, and in particular participated in a gay-bashing sketch that may have ultimately contributed to Chris Kanyon's suicide. But Mark Callaway's got nothing to lose or gain at this point, so he'll probably sit back in his Texas mansion doing his little youtube Mt. Rushmore lists and patting himself on the back for not "betraying his friend".

What about Triple H and Steph? It's a weird situation. I definitely think Steph was a victim. I have no doubt Vince was and is capable of incest. He sexualized his daughter from the moment he put her on TV. Rather than coming out about it, I think she played the long game of revenge, hoping to stay in his good graces long enough to take the company over and scrub it  clean of him. And I think Triple H came along with her on that ride. Just go back 20 years to the reports of him watching Samoa Joe's tryout with Vince and burying him for being "too indy", then fast forward to Trips booking him like a monster in NXT. Obviously he was playing a role. The problem is this: in playing the role, how many foul acts did the two end up collaborating in? The Ryan Nemeth AMA someone posted is just one example where Triple H had to be Vince's heavy to the locker room regarding sexual harrassment. I mean, if you cozied up to Stalin in order to eventually take him down, and he had you take charge of a few liquidations along the way, how much culpability do you ultimately have? Now obviously the relationship between Vince and his daughter and son-in-law became more contentious in the last few years, but I think there's gonna have to be some significant signs that they were working against Vince behind the scenes to keep them from getting scrubbed along with Vince.

And yes, I know a lot of people are worried that Vince will once again Houdini his way through this...but no, I don't think so. He's done. This is Epstein-level shit. It's not his company any more. He's clearly more liability than asset, not to mention he's practically geriatric at this point. They're probably figuring out how to Benoit him out of company history as we speak...

[FourPostMassacre]

9 hours ago, username said:

So I didn't read the complaint (didn't feel like I had the stomach for it) but was talking online with a friend of mine who works as more or less a guidance counselor for at-risk kids as he worked his way through it and what stuck out to him was how much Vince was manipulating everyone he came in contact with in this complaint. The poor woman obviously got the worst of it, but he was even having the woman lie about things to Laurinaitis when they first became "acquainted" and he was quite literally Vince's partner in crime (he learned more later and still continued, that sure as shit don't absolve him). Lesnar comes off as a true asshole but it didn't appear at any point he was aware that this wouldn't be consensual.

 

I point this out as I've seen a lot of people going "of course people knew" and so forth but from reading the complaint what he told me was how much  it stuck out that Vince tried to keep several people in the dark about several aspects of all this, with only some people at a corporate level seeming to really get any sort of clue about this and in all likelihood no idea just how fucking depraved it got. I think it is worth keeping in mind that Vince as a matter of his daily life is probably manipulating everyone around him, lying to them, letting them only now certain bits of info, he's an actual fucking sociopathic predator. The actual wrestlers in the locker room probably thought he was a not a good person (especially after all the NDA stuff came out) but it seems very unlikely that Vince this aspect of his existence, for that particular mask to slip in front of them unless they were bizarrely close, and even then I doubt he was ever anything approaching honest.

What are you trying to say with this? Only Vince is the bad guy in this and everyone else just picked days to sleep with this woman because they didn’t know he was pimping her out? 
 

I’d want to read a book about VKM about as much as I want to read a book about the life of Jeffery Epstein. 
 

 

[FourPostMassacre]

9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

PoS trigger warning: Jake Shields

  Reveal hidden contents

For the folks who think Dana is the issue with the UFC or MMA in general. It is a sport wide issue.

We’re not that many pages away from someone here making this argument in a much less obvious way. Close this shit down. 

[jaedmc]

It's cool we'll do the moderating. Thanx

[EVA]

I’m glad to hear TKO did the right thing, even if I’m sure it wasn’t for the right reasons. Just have to hope that they don’t stop there and continue to investigate who else was involved, aided and abetted, etc.

[The Natural]

8 minutes ago, EVA said:

I’m glad to hear TKO did the right thing, even if I’m sure it wasn’t for the right reasons. Just have to hope that they don’t stop there and continue to investigate who else was involved, aided and abetted, etc.

Yeah, it shouldn't stop with Vince. Whole thing needs a deep clean.