Full Gear V - 11/18/2023

[HarryArchieGus]

They really didn't build much intrigue surrounding MJF's mystery partner. Curious about this bout v the Gunns. It's not on my list for potential darkhorse, but it could be fun. That's my hope. The MJF v Jay White Main Event seems to have lost some steam since their first interaction. Probably would've been better as a TV match considering the line-up of higher profile challengers popping up. Regardless, I'm super stoked for this match. I hope for a short and sweet Sting/Darby/Adam v Christian/Wayne/Luchasaurus bout. Also looking forward to Cassidy v Moxley. I don't sense they'll be repeating themselves here. High drama expected. Page v Strickland is fully fueled after Hangman's fucking awesome go home promo. Both the Adam Cole and Moxley Texas Death Matches were fantastic. I suspect this will be ever bit as brutally fun. I may be kinda most here for the Golden Jets v the Bucks. The Jets have shown very little cohesion to this point, but the Bucks v Omega with whomever else is always going to provide exhilirating fun to those with their hearts open for it. The Starks/BIll v LFI v FTR v King/Black bout could be tremendous. I have no idea how this will work and I generally hate 4 ways, but I'm open to what these talented 8 men have to bring to the table. Oh, and very excited for Toni v Shida. I've missed seeing Toni Storm. Tho, if I'm honest, I'm far more excited for the Emi Sakura bout. I like my personal stakes of looking forward to a 'Toni coranation' or being disappointed by 'the continuation of this current Shida title run'.  I'm trying to get myself into the idea of a 3 way featuring Stat v Julia v Skye. I hope for a strong finishing stretch. I'm very into this line-up. I do wonder if they can trust an LA crowd over the course of often their lengthy PPV runtime? It'll be far too long for me to watch live. But really stoked for Sunday Tape Delay! Two parts!

Edited November 17, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[John from Cincinnati]

Spoilers?

 

Spoiler

 

 

[zendragon]

Vinnette played before of Athena and Billie making an open challenge and Marina making a phone call after that not sure if it was a one time thing being in LA though 

[StuntmanCrowley]

Spoiler

The last two posts makes me, despite my personal feelings on Ronda, really wanting an Athena/Rousey match.

 

[Matt D]

On 11/17/2023 at 7:52 AM, Matt D said:

This feels like it's missing one or two undercard matches of the beaten path, Miro vs Andrade (though that's probably too soon) or Hook vs Yuta. Something like that. Maybe it's just that we had some weird PPVs in a row with All In, All Out, and Wrestledream. 

Claudio vs Matthew and Kingston vs Lethal do sort of fit the bill of what I was looking for.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

 

On 11/17/2023 at 10:38 AM, Sparkleface said:

Lemme hit you with a third option.

Ronda Rousey, so we can deal with THAT nonsense.

Spoiler

 

[HumanChessgame]

Kingston/Lethal was fine. I've never been much of a Jay Lethal fan but he does well in a JTTS role. Interested to see where Ortiz re-aligning himself with Eddie goes.

Sometimes you can just tell two guys decided they'd just go out and lay into eachother and figure out how to make it look good as they went. Claudio and Matthews compliment eachother so well. They're both really physical wrestlers with Matthews being the faster of the two and Claudio is one of the better bases for guys like that. Give me a best of seven series between these guys.

There wasn't anything wrong with the ROH tag title match but I thought The Gunns could have used the rub here. I get they're going for the uneasy champions pairing with Joe and MJF (assuming Joe is actually his partner and officially the champ?) but the Ass Boys would be a good fit as champs in ROH. I wasn't really a fan of MJF getting stretchered out as the whole "injured face comes back from the local medical facility all banged up and still manages to win" trope annoys me.

Well, nobody turned on Sting

Cassidy/Moxley was definitely a match between the two.

Mark Briscoe is in the Not G8 and he's continental AF

Shida's Jushin Liger gear was pretty cool. Toni managed to balance her comedy bits with a lot of overall good wrestling and the match was decent and marred by a really dumb finish. I don't mind Toni winning via shenanigans but the metal gimmick was just barely still in her tights and plainly visible during the bump.

An AEW ppv has a ladder match because of course it does. I cringed when Black and Dralistico took piledrivers on ladders but other than that there wasn't as much absurdity as some of the other ladder matches have had.

I'm here for Skye's new look. She always had such natural upbeat babyface energy I didn't think she'd work as a heel, but then again Julia Hart started off as a cheerleader. This was the best match of the night at this point. While I like Julia having a title, I really liked Stat as champ.

Osprey being signed didn't really come off as that big a of a deal to me considering he's been there a few times before and clearly had some type of working agreement already.

Damn, Swerve caught an absolute gusher in there. Most of the garbage matches in AEW have either been comical or just poorly executed and pale in comparison when you actually watch deathmatches regularly, but this actually delivered. The barbed wire spots actually looked painful and had some decent innovation (the arm trap SOS slam and moonsault). It was a bit odd not to see the face win after all the shit Swerve has done, but I'm fine with it as long as it leads to Swerve moving up the card.

The cooler tag match went way too long, or at least seemed to with the four guys doing their usual shit-in-getting. The Young Bucks went full heel by the end which suits them better.

MJF stole an ambulance and hobbled to the ring. Despite selling to the point he could barely walk throughtout the match, MJF and White still have a competitive bout. I get MJF is desperate and pulling out whatever he can to save his title and fight off the pain, but the multiple high spots and MJF more than holding his own for 20+ minutes made it hard to really get into. The longer this went on and more dog and pony show bits that kept going on (Cole teasing the towel, ref bump, belt shots, run ins, etc) put a damper on it for me. Jay White looked like a wuss because he couldn't beat a guy with one leg even when cheating and the match was overbooked to hell.
I kept thinking that Cole was going to reveal he was faking his injury and he was The Devil all along, but no, no payoff to that storyline yet.

Swerve/Page and the women's three way were my favorites of the night. Overall this was not one of their stronger PPVs.

[Octopus]

Hangman drinking Swerve’s squirty blood was a top moment.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Fantastic show overall with every match delivering or overdelivering, but if I could be a little critical for a moment: I think you could have just had the show long angle be 'will MJF make it back?' without wasting time on the teasing Cole stuff. It just kinda belied logic that 15 people would try to hold MJF back from hitting the ring with a limp and a bit of gauze on him, but Cole gets a full entrance and ring announcement while on crutches

ETA: I think I agree with you@HumanChessgameon the two MOTN being Hangman/Swerve and the women's triple threat

ETA2: Although, I can't not put the ladder match up there. There were a few of those usual contrived multiman spots  that I always bitch about, but they're enough of a part of the beast now that I should probably let it go at some point. But yeah, gotta shout this out too. I think it's 2A and 2B with the women

Edited November 19, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Casey]

I was not a fan of that main event. MJF’s over the top bullshit, Jay White had tons of interference and still lost to an injured champion, and the Adam Cole stuff. And nothing about the Devil, at all. Despite it being a thing for the past few weeks on television. No thanks.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Hangman and Swerve had an incredible match.  It was everything (and more) of what you expect out of a blood feud.  I loved this probably more than any other street fight or hardcore style match I've seen in AEW because I felt they really SOLD the brutality of it all.  It wasn't just spot and next spot.  The violence was captured in every moment of the match whether it was a punch or someone biting someone, everything had a sense of urgency behind it.  I don't do stars but five stars.  Classic stuff. 

There were some other really good matches on the show too.  Overall a good PPV but I did not like how they handled the main event.  

I thought it was neat to utilize Zero Hour to build an angle headed into the main event but the payoff was lackluster.  MJF didn't need more obstacles.  I thought maybe this was setting up to reveal Cole as the Devil or something major and instead what we got was just overbooked Attitude Era, Russo-ish crap.  

The thing is these guys can wrestle.  MJF and White could have had a great match without any of the bullshit.  Meh.

 

[Octopus]

5 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Fantastic show overall with every match delivering or overdelivering, but if I could be a little critical for a moment: I think you could have just had the show long angle be 'will MJF make it back?' without wasting time on the teasing Cole stuff. It just kinda belied logic that 15 people would try to hold MJF back from hitting the ring with a limp and a bit of gauze on him, but Cole gets a full entrance and ring announcement while on crutches

I’m all for the MJF’s wacky cartoon sports entertainment logic as part of the AEW buffet. Same with the dumb but fun Kangaroo Kick and Bloodlibe ref bumps.

—

agreed with @Casey on wanting The Devil reveal. Kinda a weird ending. But the show was so good I’m back to trusting the process. Give me a week

Edited November 19, 2023 by Octopus

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just now, Casey said:

I was not a fan of that main event. MJF’s over the top bullshit, Jay White had tons of interference and still lost to an injured champion, and the Adam Cole stuff. And nothing about the Devil, at all. Despite it being a thing for the past few weeks on television. No thanks.

I was just about to click around to find whoever called it earlier in the week that we wouldn't get the devil reveal tonight - we kept waiting for it with the way the ramp shot was initially framed w the screens behind them, but it just never came. Certainly a choice.

[Octopus]

1 minute ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I was just about to click around to find whoever called it earlier in the week that we wouldn't get the devil reveal tonight - we kept waiting for it with the way the ramp shot was initially framed w the screens behind them, but it just never came. Certainly a choice.

Yeah, it was a few minutes of limping up the ramp

[Cobra Commander]

reading Reddit comments on White/MJF and asking myself

1) how did they really think that match should be booked to fit the pre-tonight build? I was joking on here last night about how MJF ate multiple 4 on 1 beatings in a 3 day span and he'd be going over at the PPV, so presumably they felt they had to build some extra drama. I read people who typed it should have been more of a straight match and i'm thinking "one of these guys just stole the other's title belt for a month and they're getting into brawls, they're not working a goddamned 1/4 Tokyo Dome match bucko"

2) did the MJF/Jay White feud really boost Jay White in the end or did it show some flaws in his game? mainly, i've read some people who are not particularly fans of Jay White's micwork.

[SirFozzie]

Coach Tony sometimes needs to learn that less is more. It worked in Swerve-Hangman, but in the main, we had the following plots hanging over it.

The Devil

Cole at ringside, teasing throwing in the towel

MJF injured

The Ambulance

The Gunns interfering, TWICE (including after the ref ejected them, which is complete and utter bullshit)

 

Samoa Joe waiting.

 

I'll say this. Coach Tony, if you do all this stuff (honestly reminds me of Hulkamania), without being 9000% sure MJF doesn't leave when his contract is up, you're making a horrible decision.

 

[Jenalysis]

Jay won't be able to survive this.   I think Jay's world class and should have won tonight, I was prepared for some shenanigans costing Jay, or a healthy MJF winning clean, but this was just awful booking.

Turned a PPV I was pretty positive about to making me feel like I was starting to feel when WCW turned bad, or mid-2010s WWE. 

I think this is legit the maddest I've been at booking since the Roman Rumble.

 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, Cobra Commander said:

2) did the MJF/Jay White feud really boost Jay White in the end or did it show some flaws in his game? mainly, i've read some people who are not particularly fans of Jay White's micwork.

You make a good point here. Time will tell, but I think as things stand now 15 minutes post show, it seems like the whole 'stealing the belt' thing may have just served as a backdoor way to present White as a World title level contender visually while doing none of the legwork to get there. If he's in top level matches after tonight and the crowd buys it then id say it succeeded to a degree - if he's back to fucking around in midcard trios matches with the Gunns, then it's probably another instance of not having a plan

[Curt McGirt]

I think I had more fun watching Collision and Rampage last night. The whole story MJF cooked up for himself (it had his greasy cornball fingerprints all over it) was totally unnecessary and his match was overlong. Swerve won. The only other women's match aside from a Shida match was a three-way. Ospreay ended up being the big surprise. The ladder match was fuckin' ridiculous. And the Orange Punch as a finisher really got buried. On the other hand: Hangman drank blood and both guys spilled it. Shida lost the belt. Ricky and Bill kept theirs. Bucks lost and threw a temper tantrum. Mox and Orange was perfectly fine. Christian ran away! And even with a "knee injury" MJF decided to try and out-highspot everyone else on the show with that flying hurdle-stunner.

All told though, really, this was a one-match show for me, and you know which one it was.

[Nineteen]

Feel like I'm in the minority for how that main turned out, everyone I had over was just glued to everything. If Cole was gonna be revealed to be the devil, throwing in the towel like a callback to MJF/Cody, how the end of the show hung on just long enough that something still might have happened. MJF has all these battles going on and okay, one is down (Switchblade) but there's still Joe looming. Cole's return has a lot of questions hanging over it (was handing Jay the RoH belt an accident?). We still don't know who the devil is that could be a part of the next chapter of this story. For all the craziness that was set up it was a cool swerve (, bro) to have it just be a really excellent drama filled wrestling match.

Me and a few friends are likely going to World's End and I'm pretty hyped for it.
 

[John E. Dynamite]

A decent portion of the actual, not-terminally-online fanbase would have rejected Jay White as champion. Lord knows I'm not part of that group, but it's an issue in booking him. Because he comes off as nothing short of a world champion, except to the people who don't "get" him, which I don't "get", but here we are. He can't lose anything but the biggest matches but he can't be the top guy. Yet?

If my preferred kind of wrestling doesn't have room for stapling your child's finger paintings to a person you hate's face then I am no longer myself.

Edited November 19, 2023 by John E. Dynamite

[Cobra Commander]

There's always an element of what some would call "new toy syndrome" with AEW and new-ish guys on the roster.. so someone could probably say that bringing in a Will Ospreay might indirectly throttle how much they do with a Jay White (without knowing where an Ospreay slots into an AEW totem pole)

Honestly, booking a main event these days kinda feels like trying to figure out how warm to make the shower using the two knobs. At some point you just give up and accept what you've concocted. If they do less in a main event, then other people shit on it for being "unremarkable". If you do more, then it's "overbooked". American wrestling main event style is it's own beast, it probably needs to be changed up but I don't know who gets the honor of changing it.

At least the Faces Of Death Texas Deathmatch didn't overshadow the main event too much?

[Zimbra]

The booking of the main event was bad, but if I got to book my own angles I'd probably book myself like '88 Hogan, too.

I think Brody King actually had the gnarliest bladejob of the night.

Goddamn, that deathmatch was awesome.

[Octopus]

6 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

You make a good point here. Time will tell, but I think as things stand now 15 minutes post show, it seems like the whole 'stealing the belt' thing may have just served as a backdoor way to present White as a World title level contender visually while doing none of the legwork to get there. If he's in top level matches after tonight and the crowd buys it then id say it succeeded to a degree - if he's back to fucking around in midcard trios matches with the Gunns, then it's probably another instance of not having a plan

You never know how these things go in AEW. He could end up in the tag title picture like Starks or random midcard feuds for all we know. The people chasing MJF is pretty packed with Samoa Joe, Wardlow, and the secret Devil. 

I’m very much in the minority in that I feel the Jay White stealing the belt (although I wasn’t a fan of the angle as a whole) helped Jay White. I liked what I saw from him specifically. But I know most (that I’ve read on Reddit) didn’t like his promo style which I oddly adored. He’s more if a sneaky snake (like Christian) than an epic killer (Samoa Joe, Will Ospreay, and now SWERVE). Shenanigans can keep him relevant but it’ll just depend on booking and if that’s what people want to see. 

[Cobra Commander]

i'm pulling for the Jerichomegas to win the tag belts so that they're trapped on Collision and Ricky Starks can come appear on Dynamite again