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November 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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8 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

El Hijo Del Santo

Akira Hokuto

Stan Hansen

Eddie Guerrero

The Destroyer

Shin'ya Hashimoto

Yumiko Hotta

Jushin Thunder Liger

Bryan Danielson

Fit Finlay

it fucking kills me to not be able to put any battlarts people on here but I can't justify putting Ishikawa over anyone here.

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This is my personal Mount Rushmore of wrestling. I can't do a Top 10, it's just impossible for me to pick 10 wrestlers I think are the greatest ever. These four had incredible influence over my wrestling tastes at various stages of my fandom, from when I was a kid up until now.

  • Bull Nakano
  • CM Punk
  • Steve Austin
  • Toshiaki Kawada

 

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In a rough but evolving order. By narrowing it to ten it gets tricky with leaving off a few other favorites. 
 

Bryan Danielson 

Nick Bockwinkel 

Negro Casas

Kenta Kobashi 

Terry Funk

Akira Hokuto (thanks @Jiji)

Mitsuharu Misawa

El Satanico

Andre the Giant

Stan Hansen

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10 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

My Fave Five (tm Booker T) X2

Flair

Austin

Funk

Bret

Stan Hansen

CM Punk

Raven

Chris Jericho

The Road Warriors (I'm just counting them as 1, it's my list)

Barry Windham

Edited by cwoy2j
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  • Eddie Guerrero
  • Steve Austin
  • Akira Hokuto
  • Aja Kong
  • John Cena
  • Bryan Danielson
  • Ric Flair

No order. This is who I could think of offhand. So many I love that its hard to choose, especially when there is still so much I haven't seen yet.

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Funk, Savage, Guerrero, Danielson

Vader, Sid, Flair, Scott Steiner, Onita, Dick Murdoch

Those top four are just too damn talented at everything. It’s the Mt. Rushmore to me. Elsewhere I’m a sucker for larger than life physical charisma types. That’s what pro wrestling is, to me.

Edited by For Great Justice
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11 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

10. Rey Mysterio.

9. Ric Flair.

8. Eddie Guerrero.

7. Mitsuharu Misawa.

6. Ricky Steamboat.

5. Hiroshi Tanahashi.

4. Kazuchika Okada.

3. Kenta Kobashi.

2. Bret Hart.

1. Bryan Danielson.

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2 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

My Fave Five (tm Booker T) X2

Flair

Austin

Funk

Bret

Stan Hansen

CM Punk

Raven

Chris Jericho

The Road Warriors (I'm just counting them as 1, it's my list)

Barry Windham

Ahhhh, Barry Windham.  It was a four year stretch but what a four year stretch.

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14 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

I'm not going to say "greatest of all time" or anything because I readily admit my tastes skew different, but here are ten wrestlers that I will absolutely always watch.

- 2 Cold Scorpio

- Mariko Yoshida

- Owen Hart

- Takako Inoue

- Bull Nakano

- Dynamite Kansai

- Akira Hokuto

- Meiko Satomura

- Hikari Fukuoka

- Brad Armstrong

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Tried doing a top 5 over the summer that ended up turning into a top 10 then into a top 20

Subject to revision but I'm pretty comfortable with

1. Shawn Michaels

2. Minoru Suzuki

3. Bryan Danielson

4. Kenta Kobashi

5. Chris Jericho

6. The Rock

7. Tetsuya Naito

8. CM Punk

9. Undertaker

10. Bret Hart

Honorable mentions to Kawada and Okada but if I keep going then I'll waste my day turning this into a top 20 (Flair, Cena, Van Dam, Nigel McGuinness ....)

And here's a top 5 for Tag Teams

1. Kings of Wrestling (Hero and Claudio)

2. Revival/FTR

3. Motor City Machine Guns

4. The Briscoes

5. Holy Demon Army

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14 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

Curt Hennig 

Bam Bam Bigelow 

Great Muta 

Samoa Joe 

Arn Anderson 

Randy Savage 

Van Vader

Bryan Danielson

Bret Hart

And, for the GOAT of unfulfilled potential, Monty Brown

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On 11/19/2021 at 10:19 AM, D.Z said:

New videos on Tiktok of Vince with Nick Khan and etc checking out their new office. Healthy Triple H in them as well.

This one is getting off lightly. What's more of a dick move than releasing a ton of talent, getting a new office, doing your own MTV Cribs of it online, and showing that the guy whos entire organization they dismantled and reconfigured is still on the payroll and not complaining? 

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Favorites.

Kenta Kobashi

Cactus Jack

Manami Toyota

Don Muraco

Abdullah the Butcher

Momoe Nakanishi

Dusty Rhodes

Shawn Michaels

Valiant Brothers

John Tolos

Bull Nakano

Heel manager Lou Albano gets special recognition

Oh that's 11😀

Edited by ka-to
Drinking Utopias World Wide Stout while posting
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37 minutes ago, sabremike said:

My list:

Yano.

 

That is all.

When making a list like this I think we all factor in either a whole career or specific timeframe (someone brought up Barry Windham's four years). If I were to put Yano on my list, I feel like it would be for one moment and that is a moment that could earn anyone a spot on a list like this....

8A0WP2bO-Jon-Moxley-Toru-Yano.jpg

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Starrcade ❤️❤️❤️

I was just watching Mike Graham vs Terry Taylor from WCW TV and it was above average. Not solid, not good TV, but better than all that (but not 5 stars lol). Just a great match with mat wrestling and not mat resting. 

Mike Graham was an automatic good TV match like Brain Pillman and Brad Armstrong. I have many memories of him, no different than the long time TV guys, since he happened to be a regular on TV for just the right amount of time while I was 100% dedicated to WCW as a child. 

Now...I just read about this try at a stabbing before Nitro that night lol! I never knew about any of that. I didn’t know that he had an Eric Wattsish reputation either. I know how it started and ended for the guy, and gosh knows he wasn’t the first of those cases, but I didn’t know that he wasn’t almost at all. 

I just assumed he retired from in ring work after his run in WCW and became a normal agent. I didn’t know he was every bit as nuts as some of the others who somehow worked in that circus. 

EDIT: upon further reading I apparently subconsciously lumped some of the stuff he said on the internet over the years with Superstar Billy, who of course has nothing to do with any of this but had the same nickname and the same obsession with raging on the internet in the 2000s. So I knew about that side of him but had it confused with Billy at first glance in a while.

 

Edited by BloodyChamp
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27 minutes ago, Nineteen said:

When making a list like this I think we all factor in either a whole career or specific timeframe (someone brought up Barry Windham's four years). If I were to put Yano on my list, I feel like it would be for one moment and that is a moment that could earn anyone a spot on a list like this....

8A0WP2bO-Jon-Moxley-Toru-Yano.jpg

To go with the above. NSFW:

 

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Was waiting to board my flight home to Pittsburgh from Vegas yesterday afternoon and happened to notice a slightly older gentleman standing next to me who I thought looked somewhat familiar. But obviously with masks, etc. in airports, it makes it a little tougher to tell. I continued to stand there and went about my business. A few minutes later I saw him adjust his mask for a second out of the corner of my eye so I took a glance over to catch a look at his face. Yep, my suspicions confirmed. Sabu. Standing 3 feet away. I happened to be wearing a Ric Flair shirt(don't judge, the TSA Agents always pop for it...) A couple of minutes passed and I decided I was going to say something to him. I leaned over and nodded my head and simply said "thanks for everything over the years". He looked a little confused and said "for what?" then saw my shirt and chuckled, realizing I recognized who he was. He was super appreciative and we ended up chatting for 5-10 minutes. He's doing a signing with Fonzie in Pittsburgh today. Soft-spoken but nice. Wished each other safe travels and boarded the flight.

Was really sad seeing him limp around. Was a 4-hour flight and he'd have to get up like every 20 minutes just to take a walk. Was clearly in a lot of pain.

Cool experience though. If you would have told 16-year-old me back in 1997 that I'd be shooting the shit with Sabu before a flight my mind would have been blown. 

Edited by Peck
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i

01. Bret Hart: The first time I saw Bret Hart, I thought he looked really cool and I liked his nickname and then as I started to watch, he became a singles wrestler so his whole ascent up the card came at the same time as my fandom began so it was almost like he was MY pro wrestler. 

02. Rey Mysterio Jr.: His early stuff is incredible. You go back and watch that WCW match with Psychosis and they're doing stuff that is still mind-blowing. The other thing about Rey is that he has no real BAD period (His late WCW/Filthy Animals stuff was kind of a dud but he was still delivering in the ring), even recently he's still incredible of some great stuff (The matches against Andrade, for example).

03. Tajiri: I mean, this might not really count because I saw almost none of his pre-ECW stuff and haven't really bothered to watch anything since he left WWE, but that stretch from ECW to WWE is full of some of my favourite moments: his Death Match against Super Crazy is my favourite ECW match period, his team with Mikey Whipwreck delivered more goodness, and his debut match in WWE with Regal in his corner is one of my favourite underrated WWE moments ever (The crowd who didn't know him losing their shit over every kick while Regal reacts with great facial expressions really selling the idea that Regal had no idea who he was or that he was capable of THAT).

04. Dick Togo: Man, when I started checking out puro, Togo was the guy who blew me away. He wasn't THE most acrobatic (though amazing for his size) but he had such incredible charisma. I remember showing my Michinoku Pro tape to a friend of mine who'd only see WWF/WCW and he had a similar body type to Togo and was absolutely in love with him (wrestling-wise), he'd sign for things as Dick Togo, do the same pose as him everywhere he went and once tried to do his senton bomb into a dumpster full of cardboard at work that went about as poorly as it could (He came down too close to the edge and hit the back of his head off the steel dumpster AND failed to crush most of the cardboard) so that also keeps him up high on my list. 

05. Mick Foley: I don't think this needs to be explained. He's great.

06. Eddie Guerrero: And again...

07. Sid: When I was young, Sid seemed so amazing and scary and charismatic and fun, and then he would just disappear. A friend of mine taped Superbrawl and even losing to El Gigante, I was awestruck by Sid, and then once I tracked down WCW on TV, Sid was gone. Then he came to WWF a year later and I was so excited. And then he was gone. And then we got a free preview of TBS and there was Sid again and then he was gone and I wouldn't see him again until he came back as Shawn Michaels' manager. So, growing up, he had that mystery factor to him in that he would just appear somewhere and disappear again so I never got as bored of him as I would of other guys of that era.

08. Vader: Man, Vader was great. 

09. The Ultimate Warrior: I liked him way better than Hogan from the start. That music still gets me jacked.

10. Lance Storm: This is kind of a weird choice, I'll admit. But when I started watching ECW, Storm was there as one half of the Impact Players and he just seemed sooo cool. The Calgary...Alberta, Canad catch-phrase. And then he had that fun run in WCW as leader of Team Canada and while it was basically a weak imitation of the Hart Foundation (Which is probably my favourite stable ever!), I loved every minute of it. His WWE run was pretty mediocre but this is my list so I'm not holding it against him.

HM: Bunkhouse Buck (It felt wrong to include him since I was only basing it on his WCW run and never watched anything of his outside of that); Dustin Rhodes (I loved his early WCW run and some of the Goldust stuff and his recent run in AEW but there are a lot of BAD years in there, too); Mike Awesome (His ECW run was one of my favourite things ever but those matches are a little hard to watch now, knowing Awesome's fat); Chris Jericho (I was the biggest Jericho fan through WCW and most of his WWE tenure, but his AEW stuff has become such fast-forward-fodder that I could no longer in good conscience put him on this list);  Scott Hall (Hall is one of those guys who always seemed soooo cool even though the matches might not be there and he phoned it in a lot); Steve Austin (Should be on the list, but his late WWE non-wrestler role REALLY annoyed me with the ATV and the "Boring" chants and the "What" chants (even though that was actually late in his in-ring career)) and TAKA Michinoku (As stated above, I LOVED Kaientai and TAKA was a big part of that but I never really saw enough of him to make a full judgement).

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3 hours ago, ka-to said:

Dory Jr.? Does anyone else like Dory more than Terry, or at least consider him better as NWA Champion?

No I think Terry has him beat in almost every category but I can't think of a wrestler I want to really like more than Dory. I like his performances in singles matches against Hoffman and Lawler, but tbh I find him drier than a sandpaper sandwich. 

Imho contemporaries like Bockwinkel, Brisco and Patterson were streets ahead of him. 

Can't argue with numbers though, four years is longer than most guys got to hold the NWA belt for. 

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Top ten in no real order:

Eddie Guerrero-probably my pick for GOAT 

Terry Funk

Okada

Dustin Rhodes

Andre the Giant

Vader

Fit Finlay

Bryan Danielson

Shinya Hashimoto

LA Park

The thing that’s great about wrestling is that all of our lists are going to be different and all will probably be correct ( if someone put idk…Tiger Ali Singh on their list I would have to say that’s incorrect) and most of our lists will change all the time I easily could have put Tanahashi or Foley on there and felt fine with it. A part of me wanted to put Kenny Omega on and a part of me want to smack myself for thinking it. Wrestling is such a wonderfully interesting and varied art form that arguments for GOAT or even just great can be nearly impossible. I left Bret Hart of my list because there’s a voice in my head that said he wasn’t even the best Hart that’s Owen and both thoughts have a lot of fun weight behind them. When wrestling is great it’s just a really cool medium. Sorry for the long rant.

 

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19 hours ago, Octopus said:

Any of you guys have a Top 10 (or whatever number) wrestler GOAT list? It’s always fun to see people’s personal taste.

This is my personal taste, not objectively 'best' -

Kurt Angle 

Bret Hart 

The Undertaker 

Kenny Omega 

Tetsuya Naito 

Sting

Bryan Danielson 

Eddie Guerrero 

R Truth 

JBL 

Those last two will probably never make it onto a list like this but I honestly love the work they did.

Truth has had his evolutions but he maintains a great aura, even as a comedy jobber. I'd love him to get a serious push before he retires but I applaud him for making the career he made. Not everyone needs to be a "serious business" main eventer.

I hated the 'sudden' turn from Bradshaw to JBL but looking back I think his main event ascension was actually fairly well done.

Even when he was a heel, my friends and I would have a great time watching him hit big boots, fallaway slams & that clothesline from hell.

His outside the ring behavior is hard to ignore though but I think wrestling needs big burly bastards who would rather KO people than put on a 5 star classic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by L_W_P
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