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WRESTLEMANIA 36 Post Match Thread

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Posted (edited)

Loved Owens/Rollins.

 

Did Steenerico ever mix it up with AotF? I think these two have a hatred that just comes naturally to them when squaring off and while I don't want the feud run into the ground I would like to see the feud escalated to maybe a cage match where they take turns ping ponging each  other off the cage.

Edited by Hayabusa

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I am pretty sure the company that has done everything for a decade-plus to pretend that Chris Benoit never existed decided to shout out the murders during Wrestlemania because... reasons?

 

Like I can see how someone watching at home could jump to that even though as noted it isn't very much like what happened but there's literally no reason why anyone involved in the proceeding would want to do it. None of them would think that it'd make them look good, or make them money, or get any kind of good attention, like even if you think Vince is just a vile human being there's nothing in his decades of awful behavior that would suggest he'd be vile in this way.

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40 minutes ago, Hayabusa said:

Loved Owens/Rollins.

 

Did Steenerico ever mix it up with AotF? I think these two have a hatred that just comes naturally to them when squaring off and while I don't want the feud run into the ground I would like to see the feud escalated to maybe a cage match where they take turns ping ponging each  other off the cage.

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, username said:

I am pretty sure the company that has done everything for a decade-plus to pretend that Chris Benoit never existed decided to shout out the murders during Wrestlemania because... reasons?

 

Like I can see how someone watching at home could jump to that even though as noted it isn't very much like what happened but there's literally no reason why anyone involved in the proceeding would want to do it. None of them would think that it'd make them look good, or make them money, or get any kind of good attention, like even if you think Vince is just a vile human being there's nothing in his decades of awful behavior that would suggest he'd be vile in this way.

We like in this snowflake era where people can point out something that comes across even remotely insensitive and a large number of people will run with a particular narrative. I don't know if they wanted to subliminally hit that nerve but honestly,  It didn't cross my mind till I logged into Twitter. Both Orton and Edge worked closely with Benoit in some of his most higher profile matches in WWE so when I think in hindsight it's hard to believe it didn't cross their minds especially when they were working a match that they had all they time in the world to brainstorm and even do over and post produce. It doesn't really bother me like alot of people because the match sucked but I understand the circumstances. Under normal circumstances this would've been a completely different match in front of a live crowd. I really feel sorry for Edge and even Drew because they would've had the biggest most organic moments at Wrestlemania this year.

Tell me this though how is this any less offensive than Shawn Michaels and HHH doing Crossfaces literally months after the incident in main event matches on PPV, guys that don't even do submissions.

Edited by Ziggy

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Tell me this though how is this any less offensive than Shawn Michaels and HHH doing Crossfaces literally months after the incident in main event matches on PPV, guys that don't even do submissions.

I thought that was even more tasteless back then too. I remember people at the time would say they were doing it to hurt the move because it wasn’t the finish, but in my mind it was only done to get a cheap reaction. 

I know I started the conversation after the picture was posted, but if certain are offended that I’m accusing the wrestlers of voluntarily going with a cheap spot, then we should stop discussing it.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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23 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

Tell me this though how is this any less offensive than Shawn Michaels and HHH doing Crossfaces literally months after the incident in main event matches on PPV, guys that don't even do submissions.

9 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I thought that was even more tasteless back then too. I remember people at the time would say they were doing it to hurt the move because it wasn’t the finish, but in my mind it was only done to get a cheap reaction.


We're getting even deeper into the weeds here, but the idea of them using it was to "take back" the move so it could be disassociated from Benoit and still exist in wrestling.

Good idea? Probably not. But it was absolutely not for cheap heat.

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Samoa Joe was using Crossfaces in every match before the Benoit murders/suicide, but stopped doing the move for a while after it happened.

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Continuing the "John Cena turns heel" theme, he's not only wearing a New York Yankees jersey, but it's a Babe Ruth jersey.

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7 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I thought that was even more tasteless back then too. I remember people at the time would say they were doing it to hurt the move because it wasn’t the finish, but in my mind it was only done to get a cheap reaction. 

 

I never knew that was some peoples logic behind that, Beside Hunter and Shawn and Taker too they probably were the only ones that could get away with using it at the time, which is probably why they even used it. It shocked me,  but I wasn't offended by it but when Bryan got fired for choking Cole with a tie, I was furious at the fact that people defended his release because the used of the crossface so soon after the incident came to mind real quick. It's like when Batista and Jericho got fined for getting color while Taker and HHH was hitting eachother the chsirshots to the head after that was banned 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:


We're getting even deeper into the weeds here, but the idea of them using it was to "take back" the move so it could be disassociated from Benoit and still exist in wrestling.

Good idea? Probably not. But it was absolutely not for cheap heat.

Thing is finishers become transitional moves all the time. It would’ve sooner fell into that same demographic eventually since the guy who made it his own was dead. I see what you’re saying, maybe they were trying to do something with taking it back, but it always got that “I can’t believe their doing it. Yeahhhhhhh” pop. They should’ve stopped doing it as soon as it kept getting that reaction. They eventually did, but I remember even Cena would bust it out from time to time. I think Batista did too at one point.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs

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as soon as they went for the move I tweeted "they are copying Benoit"  maybe it's because of the recent doc but none the less I did see quite a few others tweet similar.  I didn't hate the match as much as most. It reminded me of the old ps2 WWE games where you could go backstage and do some crazy shit. I also think the lack of blood may have hurt too. With AEW using blood when it matters it really does show how different the companies are. WWE not using blood on their biggest show in a moment where it would have mattered hurt the match. 

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ESPN article on Drew keeping the title locked away until after the match aired. The following passage stood out to me:

Quote

"Finally, when I had won the title, I saw the emotion and remembered how real it was to me. In that moment, it was real again as I was watching it. I went upstairs, I opened the door and I took the title out, now that it was official. I had another moment with my wife in the house, and with my family on Zoom. I had my whole family on there."

I'm guessing he plowed his wife while wearing the title. Good on him.

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2 hours ago, Pete said:

ESPN article on Drew keeping the title locked away until after the match aired. The following passage stood out to me:

I'm guessing he plowed his wife while wearing the title. Good on him.

So did they do Alternate finishes for Every match, its almost like he was watching to make sure it was the finish of him Winning. 

Was the Alternate finishes done just incase the intended winner got Sick before the airing of Mania.

I know Vince is very indecisive and changes his mind out the blue these days but I don't get why you'd have guys do matches with different outcomes for most of the card, maybe one or two.

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Nothing on this show had anything to do with Chris Benoit and this conversation is dumb.

Onto more important things: The bars on ROH's 4:3 matches are hot garbage. Amateur hour.

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4 hours ago, Gorman said:

Continuing the "John Cena turns heel" theme, he's not only wearing a New York Yankees jersey, but it's a Babe Ruth jersey.

I always knew there was something likeable about Cena.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Tell me this though how is this any less offensive than Shawn Michaels and HHH doing Crossfaces literally months after the incident in main event matches on PPV, guys that don't even do submissions.

It's funny how good my long-term memory can be when my short-term one fails me at times.  But I remember when WWE magazine was still a thing Shawn did an interview.  And he was specifically asked about the crossface and did acknowledge Benoit.  So yes, he did say he was trying to take back the move so it wouldn't be tied to him anymore.  Only problem is he really didn't take it back.  Nobody really did for that matter.  It was just one of those things where it would be used in and out of WWE without incident to the point that it became a move on its own.  Now I don't know if doing one so soon after the documentary is advisable but I wouldn't necessarily hold it against anybody now.

But to your point though I don't think Edge and Orton deliberately did it to make people think of Benoit.  Heck, I would bet they didn't even think of anything related to that when doing the spot.  It looked like something a bit weird but in a totally different way to me at first.  But I so people wouldn't keep talking about it I would have kept that out of the replay last night.  So is it less offensive than what Shawn and HHH did?  To me yeah and only because Shawn/HHH chose to double down on it instead of just letting time take its course.  Besides, I'm more offended by how bad the LMS standing match was considering how hate-filled it was going into it.

As for the rest of the show the points that you all mentioned are about where my thoughts are with this.  I did go nuts for Undertaker's usage of Metallica's song though hate that it'll be overdubbed soon enough.  And the Firefly Funhouse was enjoyable enough though hearing "Obsession" was grade A stuff.  Still can't believe they tossed the "That's good shit, pal" line which I heartily laughed at.

Edited by NikoBaltimore

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4 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I never knew that was some peoples logic behind that, Beside Hunter and Shawn and Taker too they probably were the only ones that could get away with using it at the time, which is probably why they even used it. It shocked me,  but I wasn't offended by it but when Bryan got fired for choking Cole with a tie, I was furious at the fact that people defended his release because the used of the crossface so soon after the incident came to mind real quick. It's like when Batista and Jericho got fined for getting color while Taker and HHH was hitting eachother the chsirshots to the head after that was banned 

If only it had been Cole 🙂 

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Edge and Orton obviously weren't *trying* to nod to Benoit, but someone should have made the connection and nixed the spot. They're careful as shit about even mentioning Benoit - this kind of lack of awareness is sloppy. Also: *This is a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation.* If you don't want to take part, don't. If you don't want to read, ignore the thread. Again: not a good time to try to stifle a wrestling discussion topic on a wrestling message board. It probably would have reached its natural conclusion a page ago if there wasn't such a weird, forceful pushback.

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Just now, MORELOCK said:

Edge and Orton obviously weren't *trying* to nod to Benoit, but someone should have made the connection and nixed the spot. They're careful as shit about even mentioning Benoit - this kind of lack of awareness is sloppy. Also: *This is a perfectly reasonable topic of conversation.* If you don't want to take part, don't. If you don't want to read, ignore the thread. Again: not a good time to try to stifle a wrestling discussion topic on a wrestling message board. It probably would have reached its natural conclusion a page ago if there wasn't such a weird, forceful pushback.

All of this.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

My point with that is, while you see it as a Benoit homage or easter egg... people that work out frequently (like Edge, Orton, and probably everyone else producing that match) would never make that connection. Because a lat pull down machine and elbow straps for crunches could not be more different.

That's why it didn't get edited out. Because people who are familiar with the equipment didn't make a connection. And I can say with absolute certainty those involved didn't do it as a shout out. They did it by accident.

If you’re looking for an answer to “How did this make it to air,” I think there’s a lot of truth in this observation.  The similarities probably didn’t enter any of the real decision-makers’ minds because they’re so intimately aware of the *differences*.

That said, I have zero doubt that somebody involved with the production probably noticed the similarity.  It seems improbable that someone didn’t.  However, I imagine if you’re a camera guy or a production assistant at WWE, tugging on someone’s coat and suggesting “Um, this kinda reminds me of Chris Benoit murdering his family” is probably not great for your job security, so you just shut your fucking mouth and do what they say and keep cashing the checks.

Edited by EVA
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

Edge and Orton obviously weren't *trying* to nod to Benoit, but someone should have made the connection and nixed the spot.

Made the connection to what? An incident from almost thirteen years ago that used a completely different piece of exercise equipment in a different way? It literally didn't occur to me until the next morning when I saw people looking to be worked up about a connection that's tenuous at best.

This was a group that spend a lot of time around exercise equipment producing an action scene in a very familiar setting. I find it perfectly understandable why nobody in that room made the connection. 

You're free to discuss what you want. I'm just amazed that so many people saw it this way.

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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I'll be honest, when I saw that spot the first thing I thought of was that they fired Daniel Bryan for choking Justin Roberts with a necktie and now Edge and Orton are doing this shit. That and John Cena still did it best the way he beat Umaga.

The way Benoit killed himself didn't cross my mind until people on here mentioned it and until Meltzer and Alvarez mentioned it.

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