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ALL OUT PPV - August 31, 2019

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4 minutes ago, Casey said:

The Dark Order is awesome, and I fully expect the gimmick to be fleshed out once their TV starts.

Yeah, I see that turning away viewers in droves. If they get quarter hour ratings back, it's going to be intriguing to say the least. I don't see any reason why someone would stay to watch that besides the absolute shit show factor.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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18 hours ago, Casey said:

I'm still wondering why ODB was so goddamn over. I didn't get it when she was in TNA, and I still don't get it.

I can think of 2 reasons

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Lucha libre has so much playing to the crowd from both rudos and tecnicos. I agree that Penta has almost gone too far with his playing to the audience but it's just how it is in Mexico. He'll hopefully adjust but at least the crowd is more into him than perhaps anybody else on the roster... The two biggest stars right now based off of live audience reactions are Cody as nu-Sting/2000 HHH and Pentagon Jr. Omega is up there, as is Jericho, but Kenny does feel a little off (HIS HEART IS IN TOKYO, DAMMITthatwassogreat) and Jericho isn't really getting the heel heat that he wants.

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7 minutes ago, Casey said:

The Dark Order is awesome, and I fully expect the gimmick to be fleshed out once their TV starts.

If this is sarcasm, then ok. Otherwise, the only fleshing out of their gimmicks that can be done is flushing them down the toilet, stop letting Uno look like a sloppy fuck out there who is as threatening and believable as Marko Stunt, getting the two of them some believable gear, and then sticking them in some kind of fun gimmick.

This shit they're doing now ain't working. That crowd was dead fucking silent. In fact, that crowd has been dead silent for the Dark Order since their first run in. They're embarrassing and lame.

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It’s not sarcasm, I genuinely the Dark Order. 🤷🏼‍♂️

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Just now, Oyaji said:

Lucha libre has so much playing to the crowd from both rudos and tecnicos. I agree that Penta has almost gone too far with his playing to the audience but it's just how it is in Mexico. He'll hopefully adjust but at least the crowd is more into him than perhaps anybody else on the roster... The two biggest stars right now based off of live audience reactions are Cody as nu-Sting/2000 HHH and Pentagon Jr. Omega is up there, as is Jericho, but Kenny does feel a little off (HIS HEART IS IN TOKYO, DAMMITthatwassogreat) and Jericho isn't really getting the heel heat that he wants.

All that would have made more sense if it was a normal, one fall match. In a ladder match where guys are taking these terrifying, horrific death defying bumps (I dunno how Nick Jackson didn't Million Dollar Baby himself on the side on that table he missed), you can't be doing that shit. You would think this would be worked out BEFORE the match or at least the ref or one of the Bucks who work primarily in the states communicate this to him during the match (more selling and ex nay on the Spanish shouting eh). Penta has worked all over the world. He should know his crowd by now.

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New promotions often have growing pains.   I think AEW's idea is to give a variety, and have folks really want part of it, and pay for that part.

I think the PPV model is going to suffer once they get weekly TV though.  This got a lot less buzz than DoN, and seems to be getting more criticism, despite the show not being worse.

I think the TV is going to do well though.  The less is more approach that I think they'll do for weekly TV will play out well, and I suspect they'll churn the roster enough to keep it fresh.  They have to be holding back a few cards for TV like Johnny/Taya (They really need Taya)

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This is new ground for most of us.  I do remember TNA from their early days doing weekly PPVs to getting a deal on FOX Sports to finally getting the deal on Spike. They felt major league for about five seconds before everyone realized it was second rate bullshit run by a bunch of idiots who had no idea what to do with the resources they had. 

I don't think any of us are old enough to remember JCP or WWF going national..   so it's going to be very interesting. I don't expect them to work out all their kinks within the next few weeks,   TV is going to be a learning experience for sure. 

Just hope that they look and feel like a big deal. I think on presentation they will look the part and they'll have full houses of rabid fans.  Good.  But shit like Dark Order?  No..  all that shit has to be ironed out,  repackaged or demoted.  TNA never learned to stay away from the indy bullshit. 

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25 minutes ago, alstein said:

New promotions often have growing pains.   I think AEW's idea is to give a variety, and have folks really want part of it, and pay for that part.

I think the PPV model is going to suffer once they get weekly TV though.  This got a lot less buzz than DoN, and seems to be getting more criticism, despite the show not being worse.

I think the TV is going to do well though.  The less is more approach that I think they'll do for weekly TV will play out well, and I suspect they'll churn the roster enough to keep it fresh.  They have to be holding back a few cards for TV like Johnny/Taya (They really need Taya)

I would consider technical snafus here and there as growing pains. A lot of this stuff now feels self inflicted. They don't have one person they trust who is screening everything (like a Jim Ross or Tony Schiavone who both have over three decades under their belt helping produce segments or wrestling shows in some of form)? They've had multiple cracks at this now and you have stretches where it feels like a mess. I'm saying this as someone who, in his first time watching nearly an entire AEW show save for one or two matches like the Cracker Barrel match, loved many of the production elements and different touches. Just because I'm being open minded (hey, I didn't hate Orange Cassidy nearly as much this time and only wanted him to get crippled legit a tiny bit!) doesn't mean everyone who they target is going to be that. Variety isn't a replacement for quality or quality control.

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Agreed with everyone else who says the Dark Order's gimmick isn't working. Both need new gear badly for starters. Uno especially. It's hard to take someone seriously as a monster threat when he looks like Homer Simpson in an outfit he bought at the Goodwill.  

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We keep picking on the Dark Order but at least they have Young Bucks,  Lucha Bros.,  Best Friends,  Private Party,  SCU,  Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus, LAX  etc to fill out the tag division and none of those teams would look out of place on WWE television. 

The women's division is a far bigger issue. They have some talent but man is that roster thin and they appear to be prioritizing the wrong women at least for right now. You know how much more legit the division would have looked if they had a Tessa Blanchard to build around?  They have no stars right now. 

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49 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

We keep picking on the Dark Order but at least they have Young Bucks,  Lucha Bros.,  Best Friends,  Private Party,  SCU,  Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus, LAX  etc to fill out the tag division and none of those teams would look out of place on WWE television. 

The women's division is a far bigger issue. They have some talent but man is that roster thin and they appear to be prioritizing the wrong women at least for right now. You know how much more legit the division would have looked if they had a Tessa Blanchard to build around?  They have no stars right now. 

Given their ages, I would aggressively go after Taya as @alstein said right now over Tessa. You put Taya in the driver's seat for the 3-5 years she might have left and then give the keys to Tessa. If Taya can have a heated program leading up to a crazy double juice brawl like she had with Ayako Hamada over the Reina de Reinas title, it can help get the division over like Rover. It won't fix everything, but it would be a good start.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco

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Re: the Dark Order

I like them. I liked them in the old gimmick, I think the new one has a lot of potential. But a lot of you are right, it isn't landing. Normally I'd say we should give them a chance to get going but you can't debut on national television with works in progress. Might be better to put them on the back burner and prioritize TV time for acts that are getting over like Private Party.

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6 hours ago, The Natural said:

https://whatculture.com/wwe/tony-khan-unhappy-with-aew-all-out-incident

News on Pharaoh. Cody said some fireworks weren't meant to go off. That's alarming. Branding Rhodes and Tony Khan weren't happy with Pharaoh getting scared either. Shit situation.

They need to stop saying "it wasn't supposed to happen that way" every time they get heat for something.  This is the same response as the chair.

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1 minute ago, Tromatagon said:

They need to stop saying "it wasn't supposed to happen that way" every time they get heat for something.  This is the same response as the chair.

I swear there was something else they had to apologize for after double or nothing or fftf as well. Gets kind of old hearing it. 

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9 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Cody does big entrances and he wrestles a methodical style but I don't believe his match vs. Dustin or his match vs. Darby Allin veered into "nostalgia pops" or outside interference.  Spears didn't attack Cody until after it was a time limit draw.  The match with Spears was smoke and mirrors because Spears just ain't that great... 

Yeah, I would say Cody’s Spears match was closer to his All In match with Nick Aldis than his other AEW matches. Over with the crowd but in need of a lot of Ga-Ga.

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53 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

They need to stop saying "it wasn't supposed to happen that way" every time they get heat for something.  This is the same response as the chair.

What are they supposed to say instead? We didn't give a shit about the dog when we planned this event?

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"Our bad won't happen again"

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7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

I don't think any of us are old enough to remember JCP or WWF going national.

The board full of grumpy old men? 🙂

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5 minutes ago, Tromatagon said:

"Our bad won't happen again"

Or “Accidents happen”

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1 minute ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Or “Accidents happen”

I think that's more or less what they're saying and they're not taking enough responsibility. The one thing I'm worried about more than temporary or minor things, like the women's division or the dark order, that are getting the lion's share of talk right now is how arrogant and hardheaded TK comes off in interviews. For a guy whose sports teams aren't exactly basking in success, any time somebody seems to question his ideas he seems to push back, like he's never had a dumb idea. Does this reflect in their booking so far? Not really, as they've listened to criticism on Marvez and the librarian stuff but there are massive egos in play at the top and thinking their shit don't stink is a concern. I watched some of Kahn's post-show interview (I like that he does these) and somebody was asking him if he'd be at weekly TV and the look he gave them could kill a motherfucker, like "of course and how dare you?" Meltzer talked about a similar reaction when he brought up the possibility of failure. This strongheadedness could be a good thing in parts but they need to recognize when they've fucked up, take responsibility and change. 

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