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MARCH 2019 WRESTLING TALK.

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Just now, mattdangerously said:

Becky Lynch has a Seinfeld fetish?

Bravo

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6 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

Becky Lynch has a Seinfeld fetish?

Well, if there was one reason to support Ronda, ... 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Well, if there was one reason to support Ronda, ... 

Seinfeld > Ronda Rousey

I wasn't referring to Seinfeld in the first place. I'll just leave it at that.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie

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15 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Seinfeld > Ronda Rousey

I wasn't referring to Seinfeld in the first place. I'll just leave it at that.

giphy.gif

you have to tell us now

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Consider what got last month’s thread temporarily closed.

More importantly: Harley Race has terminal lung cancer.

That's awful. Prayers for Harley.

Harley is 75, so it got me wondering who the oldest living professional wrestler is. That would be British wrestler and referee, Joe D'Orazio. He's 96 and was born July 27, 1922.

The oldest wrestler ever verified was Polish wrestler, promoter, and referee Abe Kelmer, who passed away at 101. He was known as Abe Coleman, Hebrew Hercules, and Jewish Tarzan. 9/20/1905 - 3/28/2007.

Edited by Nice Guy Eddie
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There are people who post here that believe Becky going over Charlotte or Charlotte going over Becky is the payoff. I never agreed with that and this past month or so has done nothing to change my view.  

Becky should beat Ronda.  Ronda should be handed her first loss at WM.  There is no reason to protect Ronda. That loss should have come in a one on one but I'll settle for it in a triple threat as long as she fucking takes the fall or taps. 

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17 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Harley Race has terminal lung cancer.

This is really bumming me out. I've grown to really enjoy his work and respect his place in history. The five star Houston match with Funk, the heel run with the bounty in Crockett, and even working some of the best Hulk Hogan matches known to man. Harley had that unique ability to cut a deadpan promo where you believed every single word. 

There is only one Harley Race. Lung cancer is a rough way to go out. Fuck cancer.

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6 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

We're fine! Everyone is backing away from that particular topic. Don't point it out so much that it continues to be discussed! 

Shit, now I'm part of the problem!

OK, I got it, I'll move to another topic:

All-Time Mike Shaw Gimmick Power Rankings

1. Norman the Lunatic

2. Makan Singh

3. Bastion Booger

4. Trucker Norm

5. Friar Ferguson

NR. Aaron Grundy. I've only seen like two Solomon Grundy matches and they didn't include Mike Shaw. 

Also, Bastion Booger is #3 if only because of his "it's so bad and thrown together and shitty that I kind of enjoy it" theme:

Between I'M DA BOOGA MAN and randomly splicing Mike Shaw's bad case of sleep apnea into the theme every ten seconds, this is some all-time-great patently awful theme music. 

Here's my old man off the topic story, I hope I can do it justice:

In the early Aughts, a loony money mark was active for a couple months in the Wisconsin area, and used a bunch of unemployed ex-WWF/WCW talent as well as a bunch of indie guys from the area, including your humble narrator. Wow, I made a bunch of money from this coke-addled goofus and more importantly, got a whole passel of amazing tales out of it. One night, we were in a nightclub's utility room that was serving as the locker room for this money mark's card (no advertising, about 14 people in attendance). The Fabulous Moolah was there, as well as Jim Neidhart, Sensational Sherri, Carmine the Hustler DiSpirito (who was the contact for many of the vets), some indie cannonfodder (inc. thee RAF) and Mike Shaw. Mr. Shaw always had a lot to say, and was really holding court on this night. He was telling everyone how he had asked the "promoter" if he could work early in the card because he had to get back to Michigan to get to his wrestling school in the morning, and that he had gotten his hotel moneys in cash (and how he could use any of his gimmicks, and how cold it got in Calgary, and how nice Hogan was to him, et al...). He really went on and on about his students, and no one else had much to say or the time to say it. When Shaw lumbered out of the room, there was a pregnant pause and Moolah quietly said in her Southern lilt, "Well, who is gonna teach Mike how to work?" and we all fell out. She really was a master of timing.

emmis,

RAF 

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9 minutes ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

In the early Aughts, a loony money mark was active for a couple months in the Wisconsin area, and used a bunch of unemployed ex-WWF/WCW talent

Incredible. Would you happen to know anything about this card, by any chance?

holygrail.jpg.a58c4eb4ccad6e32e699af3cd4

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if this fits best here or in the Old School Questions thread so if it's out of place, feel free to move it, @RIPPA or anyone else: I just got he Network after a few years and am in the mood to watch docs and stuff. I just watched the WCCW one and someone (99.9% sure it was Bill Irwin but not 100% says something to the effect that if WCCW had beat Vince to the punch in a hard push to ruthlessly expand, the wrestling landscape would have been different and WCCW would have likely won out. Now, I'll be the first to admit I don't know a ton about the territory yeas, something I'm working on changing, but even I tend to think that is hyperbole. I mean, I don't think the boys would be enough to fill the Hogan role for a national audience and, just from my limited experience, I don't think Fritz was going to seriously push anyone over the boys.

Even so, it's an interesting thing to think about. Was JCP really the only other territory that could have had a real shot at winning the war? Or were there other territories that had a shot but were missing one or two variables? I'm sorry if this comes off as stupid but the 80s is a huge gap for me and I'm trying to understand it more. 

Edited by RazorbladeKiss87

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Harley is a fucking legend man. One of the last of his kind. He was the guy when it was an Outlaw sport. There wasn't many tougher in his prime and there isn't many tougher now. 

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Since we don't currently have a WrestleMania thread I will put this here.   Does anyone think that Vince McMahon's new character of fucking over the fans.. removing Becky from her title match,   not giving Kofi Kingston his title match... etc.  will lead to him being written out of the shows? 

Shane and Steph (probably not Hunter as he's tied up with Batista)  get together and do RIGHT by the fans granting all the fan favorites opportunities and them ending up being the good guys and level headed executives to Vince's out of touch surly old bastard character.. 

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I could see that but I also think Shane is gonna turn on Miz at Fastlane.

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The WWE salary story references a report, which is actually just another story with the same numbers that are still not credited to any sources. Mark me down in the "This is shenanigans" category.

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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Since we don't currently have a WrestleMania thread I will put this here.   Does anyone think that Vince McMahon's new character of fucking over the fans.. removing Becky from her title match,   not giving Kofi Kingston his title match... etc.  will lead to him being written out of the shows? 

Shane and Steph (probably not Hunter as he's tied up with Batista)  get together and do RIGHT by the fans granting all the fan favorites opportunities and them ending up being the good guys and level headed executives to Vince's out of touch surly old bastard character.. 

I could see it happening but I don't have any faith that it will actually stick. How many times have all the authority figures been removed for good, never to be seen again and honest to goodness we mean it! only to be back within a month. I know supposedly Vince hates being on TV but he just keeps..coming..back to more and more diminishing returns. I'd be all in on this story happening if I thought we would never see the old man again.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dewar said:

The WWE salary story references a report, which is actually just another story with the same numbers that are still not credited to any sources. Mark me down in the "This is shenanigans" category.

Those salaries are bogus. 

Edited by Edwin

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Not sure if this fits best here or in the Old School Questions thread so if it's out of place, feel free to move it, @RIPPA or anyone else: I just got he Network after a few years and am in the mood to watch docs and stuff. I just watched the WCCW one and someone (99.9% sure it was Bill Irwin but not 100% says something to the effect that if WCCW had beat Vince to the punch in a hard push to ruthlessly expand, the wrestling landscape would have been different and WCCW would have likely won out. Now, I'll be the first to admit I don't know a ton about the territory yeas, something I'm working on changing, but even I tend to think that is hyperbole. I mean, I don't think the boys would be enough to fill the Hogan role for a national audience and, just from my limited experience, I don't think Fritz was going to seriously push anyone over the boys.

Even so, it's an interesting thing to think about. Was JCP really the only other territory that could have had a real shot at winning the war? Or were there other territories that had a shot but were missing one or two variables? I'm sorry if this comes off as stupid but the 80s is a huge gap for me and I'm trying to understand it more. 

WCCW had the TV but the implosions likelywould have prevented them from succeeding last term. 

Watts had the quality product and TV, but was probably hampered by the home market, even if the regional economy had not collapsed. 

jarrett says he could have gone bigger but didn’t want to and saw cable killing the territory system in due time.

i think Vince would likely have always won due to being in the Northeast with the big cities and his connections in NY/CT like Dick Ebersol.

Edited by odessasteps
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2 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Not sure if this fits best here or in the Old School Questions thread so if it's out of place, feel free to move it, @RIPPA or anyone else: I just got he Network after a few years and am in the mood to watch docs and stuff. I just watched the WCCW one and someone (99.9% sure it was Bill Irwin but not 100% says something to the effect that if WCCW had beat Vince to the punch in a hard push to ruthlessly expand, the wrestling landscape would have been different and WCCW would have likely won out. Now, I'll be the first to admit I don't know a ton about the territory yeas, something I'm working on changing, but even I tend to think that is hyperbole. I mean, I don't think the boys would be enough to fill the Hogan role for a national audience and, just from my limited experience, I don't think Fritz was going to seriously push anyone over the boys.

Even so, it's an interesting thing to think about. Was JCP really the only other territory that could have had a real shot at winning the war? Or were there other territories that had a shot but were missing one or two variables? I'm sorry if this comes off as stupid but the 80s is a huge gap for me and I'm trying to understand it more. 

The big thing for considering who could win the territorial war is to realize: WWF was almost a perfect storm in and of itself.

In order to win the war nationally in the 1980s, you needed the following things:

1- A cable network taking your TV national. (World Class had cable off and on, but never had a long-term deal with any cable networks.) 

2- A big-ticket ace to build the company around that people will pay to see. (The biggest problem for WCCW right here- any discussion of " has to be started with "If David (and later, the other Von Erichs) had lived, could World Class have won the war?"

3- Major cities having you in syndication. (This was WWF's biggest advantage: They took Los Angeles as soon as possible, and WWF being the promotion of the densely-populated Northeast made them most likely to win anyway. New York, Boston, Washington, and Philadelphia would all be able to support a big territory of their own without thinking...as could Pittsburgh and Baltimore...hell, due to having really good arenas, you could make a strong case New Jersey, Long Island, Hartford, and Providence all could as well. With all those big cities already under WWF control just by being the Northeast promotion, it put WWF's challenge on Easy Mode as it was...and when WWF also took hold in Los Angeles to make WWF the promotion of NYC and LA, the two biggest media markets in the US, that was 90% of the battle for national supremacy. ) 

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4 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

More importantly: Harley Race has terminal lung cancer.

Still wouldn’t be surprised if that tough old bastard beat it

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4 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Becky should beat Ronda.  Ronda should be handed her first loss at WM.  There is no reason to protect Ronda. That loss should have come in a one on one but I'll settle for it in a triple threat as long as she fucking takes the fall or taps. 

Honestly, my thoughts have generally been that Ronda should win if she is staying and they go with a WM 13 finish or go into the Horsewomen v. Horsewomen with Ronda trying to dodge Becky until the next all women's ppv. Otherwise Becky should totally win. If Ronda is disappearing for a bit there is no real reason to not have her lose. Even being a big Charlotte fan I would prefer a one on one.

3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Since we don't currently have a WrestleMania thread I will put this here.   Does anyone think that Vince McMahon's new character of fucking over the fans.. removing Becky from her title match,   not giving Kofi Kingston his title match... etc.  will lead to him being written out of the shows? 

Shane and Steph (probably not Hunter as he's tied up with Batista)  get together and do RIGHT by the fans granting all the fan favorites opportunities and them ending up being the good guys and level headed executives to Vince's out of touch surly old bastard character.. 

This wouldn't surprise me. With XFL starting again, that will probably take most of his attention. Phasing him out character wise makes sense.

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1 hour ago, CreativeControl said:

Still wouldn’t be surprised if that tough old bastard beat it

He's going to offer $25,000 to any human being to eliminate lung cancer for him. I expect Bob Orton to show up and piledrive cancer for him.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

Man if you thought there were some sexual S&M overtones to the Demolition gimmick as it was, adding Joey Ryan's lotion gimmick to it as well just amps it up. 

🙂

German Auttocorrect does amazing stuff. 

Also, count me in on those saddened to hear about Harley's diagnosis. Reminds me that I should be watching as many matches as possible with him. That dude was so great. 

Edit: I would have to see the Jungle Book  before I can argue some more, but I truly think a nostalgia act so good it became pretty much iconic is still higher in powerrankings overall @Smelly McUgly

Edited by ReiseReise
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5 hours ago, peachchaos said:

Incredible. Would you happen to know anything about this card, by any chance?

holygrail.jpg.a58c4eb4ccad6e32e699af3cd4

Looks to be a Rockin' Randy card. Not the original Doink or Golga, I assume. A quick Googling shows no results, but random people say they saw Booger v. Spinks "box". I reasch out to a source, so if I hear anything I will let you know. I did stumble across the archives of the Upper Midwest Wrestling Newsletter, so that was trippy. Davis was a good guy. http://drdarindavis.com/oldsite/umwn/

5 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Not sure if this fits best here or in the Old School Questions thread so if it's out of place, feel free to move it, @RIPPA or anyone else: I just got he Network after a few years and am in the mood to watch docs and stuff. I just watched the WCCW one and someone (99.9% sure it was Bill Irwin but not 100% says something to the effect that if WCCW had beat Vince to the punch in a hard push to ruthlessly expand, the wrestling landscape would have been different and WCCW would have likely won out. Now, I'll be the first to admit I don't know a ton about the territory yeas, something I'm working on changing, but even I tend to think that is hyperbole. I mean, I don't think the boys would be enough to fill the Hogan role for a national audience and, just from my limited experience, I don't think Fritz was going to seriously push anyone over the boys.

Even so, it's an interesting thing to think about. Was JCP really the only other territory that could have had a real shot at winning the war? Or were there other territories that had a shot but were missing one or two variables? I'm sorry if this comes off as stupid but the 80s is a huge gap for me and I'm trying to understand it more. 

SorceressKnight hit the major points. I feel that no one else could have done it, only Mr. McMahon and the WWF. He saw what was coming and took the gamble. He understood what the tech revolutions of cable and PPV were rapidly going to mean for sports/entertainment culture. It was the perfect time in pop culture. He had the capital, and the correct superstar in Hogan. The ringwork was generic enough to appeal to most, and he was willing to adjust the booking and traditions of the classic pro wrestling of his father to maximize profit. He used celebrities and music unashamedly and understood merchandising and marketing better than any other promoter. He really was interested in taking over and making money, not in spreading his vision of wrestling around. With nothing to prove, he would even jettison kay fabe, which everybody else thought would kill the business but really wouldn't the internet have destroyed it anyway (or transformed it utterly)? Watts was pretty smart and ambitious too, but had money problems and his stubborn view about 'rassling really wasn't fit to explode nationally. WCCW was set to crash'n'burn from the get-go. JCP tried, but we know what happened. Turner's millions made it a possibility, but I believe that the headstart of only a year or so that WWF had in the expansion war was too much for any other promotion to overcome, and that is even taking into account all the bad luck, scandal and hubris that VKM and the WWF had.

- RAF

p.s.- Dammit, Harley Race, I pictured you to live forever. Don't prove me wrong, sir...

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