OCT 2017 WRESTLING JIBBER JABBER

[Nice Guy Eddie]

24 minutes ago, Victator said:

I think we all know what kind of person the Fabulous Moolah was. She did a lot of awful things to the girls she trained. She was as scummy (perhaps scummier) than the worst male promoter. But today she is looked at as a hero for this generation of fans and young lady wrestlers. It should stay that way, sometimes the lie is better than the reality of a person. 
 

Is she really looked at as a hero? I think it's fairly well known what a piece of shit Moolah was. Plus, I honestly doubt a good amount of today's female wrestlers have ever seen a Moolah match. I'd say there are more American women influenced by Madusa, Sherri, Trish, Jacqueline, and Luna than Moolah. That's not even taking into account the influence of Bull Nakano, Aja Kong, Manami Toyota, Akira Hokuto for Japanese women. WWE could have easily ignored the truth and call the tourney the Fabulous Moolah Classic, but they didn't.

[Hagan]

It's dumb to lionize him and to associate him with this but the Widow Warrior seems decent enough. Also, I know the Susan G organization is a little dodgy and the WWE's "charity as good PR" model is something that they probably should never have actually verbalized but if the women that the company are honoring/helping and the families and people they deal with don't care it's probably not an issue to get worked up over. 

[HumanChessgame]

Any time a wrestler (or the family member thereof) gets canonized by the WWE I have to wonder...are they just doing this because the other party knows where the bodies are buried?

[Ryan]

1 hour ago, Victator said:

I think we all know what kind of person the Fabulous Moolah was. She did a lot of awful things to the girls she trained. She was as scummy (perhaps scummier) than the worst male promoter. But today she is looked at as a hero for this generation of fans and young lady wrestlers. It should stay that way, sometimes the lie is better than the reality of a person. 

Warrior I feel is the same way. He was most certainly an abhorrent person, but if some ideal of him can do some good, I say let him. 

If Warrior had lived, I am sure he would have nuked this already by saying something terrible. 

I can see how others would be fine with any of the above, but I don't believe in changing history and what a person did and said just for some nebulous end goal. If someone was a piece of shit, they were a piece of shit. End of discussion to me, others can think whatever they want on it of course. If I find out a celebrity's work whom I enjoy is a total jackass or has done some horrible things in any variety of entertainment, I generally do change my views on them and their whole body of work. It's just how I'm wired.

[Niners Fan in CT]

HOLY SHIT.  

Yes,  I have been waiting for that for a very long time.   1992 is a top 5 match on U.S. soil  IMO.  I've watched it a dozen times. Never gets old. 

[Victator]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Is she really looked at as a hero? I think it's fairly well known what a piece of shit Moolah was. Plus, I honestly doubt a good amount of today's female wrestlers have ever seen a Moolah match. I'd say there are more American women influenced by Madusa, Sherri, Trish, Jacqueline, and Luna than Moolah. That's not even taking into account the influence of Bull Nakano, Aja Kong, Manami Toyota, Akira Hokuto for Japanese women. WWE could have easily ignored the truth and call the tourney the Fabulous Moolah Classic, but they didn't.

No they definitely do. You can go back to when they announced she was going into the HOF, she got a huge reaction. 

My guess is WWE rather not mention her too much, unless people go digging. The information is not that easy to find. 

 

 

58 minutes ago, Ryan said:

If I find out a celebrity's work whom I enjoy is a total jackass or has done some horrible things in any variety of entertainment, I generally do change my views on them and their whole body of work.

I can seperate artist from art. Benoit is where my line is drawn. But Warrior saying hateful dumb shit online isn't going to leave a mark. Its not too far off from my facebook feed. 

Sorta related, I thought the Warrior widow was getting set to divorce him shortly before he died. Does anyone remember that?

[BurningBeard]

4 hours ago, Matt D said:

It's late 1992 WCW. I'm not entirely convinced there WAS an audience. The issue with Watts was that he hadn't followed wrestling at all for the years since he stopped promoting and he had been tuned out for the last year anyway. The business was in a very different place in 1987. If he had come in during 89 like was initially rumored, it might have been different.

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about Watts WCW run and no, that wasn't the issue. The issue was he got paid based on how much money he saved the company, ergo most of the top talent ended up getting the heave-ho or low-balled on contracts and it nuked any momentum the company had gained in late 91-early 92

[Victator]

I thought WCW was turning the corner in early 93. Barry Windham was tearing things up as NWA champion, even edited the SMW angle was really good and they were building to Vader/Sting. 

[BurningBeard]

There was no real corner to turn, Kip Frey had morale up with his deep pockets and as a result every event was great. If he'd stayed in charge I think 93 would have been fantastic. Instead we had the tail end of Watts out of touch return to wrestling and Bischoff's fumbling around

[RIPPA]

 

[Matt D]

4 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

That's one of the biggest misconceptions about Watts WCW run and no, that wasn't the issue. The issue was he got paid based on how much money he saved the company, ergo most of the top talent ended up getting the heave-ho or low-balled on contracts and it nuked any momentum the company had gained in late 91-early 92

Pretty sure they were both issues. I love the Frey era but it wasn't exactly moving the needle.

[RIPPA]

Per Meltzer - the WWE is purposefully not having AJ Styles wrestle on SDL and only in dark matches as they are trying to trick the crowd into staying for 205 Live (since the dark matches are after 205 Live)

 

[Spritenaut 32]

It feels like they're just treading water with AJ since the babyface turn.

That's really my main gripe with SDL.  Yeah, the roster is thin since the shakeup, but they have a decent bit of talent that they aren't using that well.  AJ seems to mostly tread water.  Same with Charlotte.  Sami and Becky get on tv, but rarely do much of anything.  I'm not really a fan of the Fashion Police, but they are over - so, of course, they're not on the show.  Meanwhile, they seem weirdly committed to long Dolph Ziggler segments which are clearly not getting over.  And I actually like Dolph, but the "anti-Showman" gimmick is not getting him over.

It seems like SDL has a lot of pieces and doesn't know what to do with them.

Also, I kinda feel like they need to turn some people.  Roode and Charlotte are good heels, but neither one has ever struck me as a good babyface.  AJ can work babyface just fine, and the crowd was cheering him anyway, but his heel run was definitely more interesting than the programs they've put him in lately.

I kinda hate to see Owens go to RAW (as rumored).  no confidence that they'll get someone back to make up for his character work.

[joseph2112]

Look at the Raw side too. I can't really think of one reason why you wouldn't put the belt on Braun. Now you have Lesnar completely off TV and Braun doing jack shit.

And I know, they have to have the Big Dog© beat The Beast© at Wrestlemania© but that's six months away. Any 10 year old could book that to happen and make something actually interesting between now and then.

[nofuture]

2 minutes ago, joseph2112 said:

Look at the Raw side too. I can't really think of one reason why you wouldn't put the belt on Braun. Now you have Lesnar completely off TV and Braun doing jack shit.

And I know, they have to have the Big Dog© beat The Beast© at Wrestlemania© but that's six months away. Any 10 year old could book that to happen and make something actually interesting between now and then.

 

(In WWE's head) They don't want Brock to lose because it diminishes Reigns eventual victory over Brock at Mania. 

[RIPPA]

Speaking of Brock

Due to Cena's schedule changing (he is no longer being billed for Survivor Series and now won't be back until the MSG show in late Dec), Brock is being billed for Survivor Series now

[JohnnyJ]

It just feels like SDL is a show for no one. Even the major talents they have arent featured. 

With Smackdown you have Vince's pet project on top. There's your first problem. If you think we're puzzled by the Jinder run, you should see how my casual friends view it.

Next you have AJ stuck in b-feuds. AJ is one of the biggest names in the whole company. The idea that he's not the main event when the SDL roster is this thin is baffling. 

The women's division is a mess. In the fan's eyes Becky/Charlotte are the jewels of the division. One should always be the focus in some way. Which is the reason why neither have been the focus for months and Nattie is champ. 

Performers like New Day and Dolph are stale and need to freshen up. . 

All of this causes a domino effect. Nakamura is less interesting due to his feud with Jinder. AJ is slumming it in a feud with Corbin. Nattie can't follow through on a damn clothesline. This current Usos run is underappreciated cause all they have to feud with is New Day and Dolph sucks the excitement out of any arena he is in. 

 

[Craig H]

I have all but given up on SDL. I couldn't really tell you much about anything that happens weekly. I'll tune into the shows on the Network, but aside from catching clips of the KO and Shane McMahon program on YouTube, or checking out the New Day and Usos stuff, I'm just in the dark.

Words don't describe how poorly this Jinder run with the title is. For all of the, "let's give this a chance" or "don't hinder Jinder" bullshit, it should be pointed out that, yes, putting your world championship on a fucking jobber is bad for business. This shit ain't hard to figure out. And not's even just damaging to the title, it's even more damaging to Nakamura. Unless Nakamura goes into Hell in a Cell and beats the ever loving shit out of Jinder in a squash match, then I fail to see how he comes out of this looking remotely good. I'd rather see Nakamura and Randy Orton feuding over the title. Hell, SDL is this land of opportunity and it gives them a chance to do something different, so why not go with a Kofi title run? The India market is the obvious answer, but if the dirt sheets are correct, then Jinder isn't making a dent there because a jobber is still a jobber. The stink of being a loser transcends cultures and borders.

[Hagan]

SD has too many pieces. Roode debuts then disappears before coming back, Kanellis debuts and becomes a jobber, Fashion Files gets pushed and then vanishes for weeks at a time. Ideally, I get the idea of you don't want the same people on TV every week (like what works with NXT) but on SD it just results in a lack of cohesion and consistency. AJ, Nak, Roode, Owens should literally be like 50 percent of the show every week and the rest you fill out.

 

As a whole, WWE could cut like 20 percent of its roster and probably be better for it. 

[Ramsey]

The NXT announcement is cool and all that and I'm happy for Hunter as it's a dream of his but...

 

Spoiler

...bloodless PG War Games matches seem sort of pointless. Cage matches in general in the current kid friendly WWE product tend to leave me flat.

 

[BurningBeard]

I'm kinda with you there. I think it's fantastic it's back but as the match where feuds go to die, it has sort of appeared at an odd time.

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

It just feels like SDL is a show for no one. Even the major talents they have arent featured. 

With Smackdown you have Vince's pet project on top. There's your first problem. If you think we're puzzled by the Jinder run, you should see how my casual friends view it.

Next you have AJ stuck in b-feuds. AJ is one of the biggest names in the whole company. The idea that he's not the main event when the SDL roster is this thin is baffling. 

The women's division is a mess. In the fan's eyes Becky/Charlotte are the jewels of the division. One should always be the focus in some way. Which is the reason why neither have been the focus for months and Nattie is champ. 

Performers like New Day and Dolph are stale and need to freshen up. . 

All of this causes a domino effect. Nakamura is less interesting due to his feud with Jinder. AJ is slumming it in a feud with Corbin. Nattie can't follow through on a damn clothesline. This current Usos run is underappreciated cause all they have to feud with is New Day and Dolph sucks the excitement out of any arena he is in. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Craig H said:

I have all but given up on SDL. I couldn't really tell you much about anything that happens weekly. I'll tune into the shows on the Network, but aside from catching clips of the KO and Shane McMahon program on YouTube, or checking out the New Day and Usos stuff, I'm just in the dark.

Words don't describe how poorly this Jinder run with the title is. For all of the, "let's give this a chance" or "don't hinder Jinder" bullshit, it should be pointed out that, yes, putting your world championship on a fucking jobber is bad for business. This shit ain't hard to figure out. And not's even just damaging to the title, it's even more damaging to Nakamura. Unless Nakamura goes into Hell in a Cell and beats the ever loving shit out of Jinder in a squash match, then I fail to see how he comes out of this looking remotely good. I'd rather see Nakamura and Randy Orton feuding over the title. Hell, SDL is this land of opportunity and it gives them a chance to do something different, so why not go with a Kofi title run? The India market is the obvious answer, but if the dirt sheets are correct, then Jinder isn't making a dent there because a jobber is still a jobber. The stink of being a loser transcends cultures and borders.

I fully agree with you, I said something similar in this week's Smackdown Live thread and before then as well:

On 10/4/2017 at 4:08 AM, The Natural said:

Smackdown Live's quality has definitely dropped for a while now, a big reason is the WWE Title picture. You go from AJ Styles as WWE Champion and main focus of the show to fuckin' Jinder Mahal while Styles is WWE United States Champion.

On 8/21/2017 at 3:36 PM, The Natural said:

Asuka vs. Ember Moon was the match of the weekend and a MOTYC. Thought it was great on my first viewing and more the second.

Jinder Mahal's shit. One of the most unlikely world champions ever. He's WWE Champion while fucking AJ STYLES is WWE United States Champion. Since John Cena dropped the WWE Championship to Bray Wyatt at Elimination Chamber 2017, the booking of the belt/title fucking sucks.

 

[The Natural]

Today is the  20th anniversary of Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker's Hell in a Cell match at In Your House 18: Badd Blood. A classic ***** match. Shawn Michaels' best match ever, same goes for Undertaker. The match also marks Kane's first appearance.

[Web Conn]

I understand AJ as US Champion or at least the idea behind, to elevate the Championship and the competitors but that would require AJ to defend the title weekly on Smackdown ala John's US Open Challenge. I hope Tye Dillinger is added to the match on Sunday.

[John from Cincinnati]

4 hours ago, JohnnyJ said:

It just feels like SDL is a show for no one. Even the major talents they have arent featured. 

With Smackdown you have Vince's pet project on top. There's your first problem. If you think we're puzzled by the Jinder run, you should see how my casual friends view it.

Kevin Owens is on top. And seemingly Vince's pet project. And it's fantastic. 

/Devil'sAdvocate 

Speaking of devil's advocate, regarding the NXT spoilers:

Spoiler

Vince intentionally went for colour in the heatbutt angle. KO talked about shredding Shane's flesh in the Cell. Assuming we're not just playing fast and loose with the rules because the McMahons need to get their shit over (big assumption), why not use blood in War Games?