Sammo~! Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Also, one of the main reasons WWF exploded in 1998, is with Bret gone and Shawn hurt, the 1A and 1B spots on the card were wide open. Obviously Austin was on the rise and arrived on Shawn's final night, but if Bret sticks around I don't know that spots open up for Foley, Hunter, or Rock. I still think Rock's ascent still happens, but maybe slower. If Bret sticks around, then maybe Rocky doesn't headline WrestleMania 15 for example. Who's to say the meteoric rise still happens without Rock as Austin's foil. WCW still goes into the toilet with or without Bret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 31 minutes ago, Happ Hazzard said: Rick and Speedy? OH MY GOD I FOUND THEM! THANK YOU! It turns out they weren't wearing face paint at all. Strange why I thought that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 40 minutes ago, evilwaldo said: Vince could not afford Bret. Turner had an unlimited budget paying everyone from the WWE double what they were worth at the time. I always wonder what would've happened to WCW if Turner had someone looking over Bischoff's budgets. I understand that he made profits in the short term but carrying that level of future obligations had to have triggered some kind of "wait a second" with SOMEONE in Turner. But anyway, Bret in 1998 WWF could have actually worked. Bret as a corporate champion trying to take down Stone Cold Steve Austin throughout the spring-summer leading into Vince betraying Bret in favor of Rock at Survivor Series 1998 is easy enough to book and doesn't deviate too far from what actually happened. Bret is the prototype of the kind of champion that the Mr. McMahon character would have wanted. I could also see Bret stepping aside for Foley to win the championship in January 1999 and just floating around in the mid card - upper mid card for much of 1999. Of course, you have to figure out how to get the Mr. McMahon character launched without Montreal ever happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilwaldo Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Just now, The Nature Boy said: I always wonder what would've happened to WCW if Turner had someone looking over Bischoff's budgets. I understand that he made profits in the short term but carrying that level of future obligations had to have triggered some kind of "wait a second" with SOMEONE in Turner. But anyway, Bret in 1998 WWF could have actually worked. Bret as a corporate champion trying to take down Stone Cold Steve Austin throughout the spring-summer leading into Vince betraying Bret in favor of Rock at Survivor Series 1998 is easy enough to book and doesn't deviate too far from what actually happened. Bret is the prototype of the kind of champion that the Mr. McMahon character would have wanted. I could also see Bret stepping aside for Foley to win the championship in January 1999 and just floating around in the mid card - upper mid card for much of 1999. Of course, you have to figure out how to get the Mr. McMahon character launched without Montreal ever happening. I doubt it would have made much of a difference. Turner ran the company in a way where certain levels made massive losses offsetting profits at other levels. As long as advertising had profits at the TBS levels everything was fine. The Braves made huge losses at the team level because broadcast rights were peanuts and TBS kept all of the advertising profits. I remember this because Steinbrenner always complained about the money TBS paid the Braves to show their games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, Roman said: OH MY GOD I FOUND THEM! THANK YOU! It turns out they weren't wearing face paint at all. Strange why I thought that. The Ringlords were Jobber team in WCW....I vividly remember one of them getting spiked with a top rope ddt from the Steiners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Bret would have put over Austin, Rock and Mick. He suggested dropping the belt to Austin the night after Survivor Series. I know hindsight is 20/20 but I think the one guy who wouldn't of went on WCW TV with The WWF World Title was Bret. I think H and Shawn wanted to push Bret out and they found their out with Bret not wanting to drop the belt to Shawn cuz Shawn wouldn't do it for him when he was champ. I know the line the WWE cites of "Bret not wanting to do business" but it was he didn't want to do business with Shawn he has stated many times that he would have dropped the belt to anyone but Shawn. I think the situation could have been handled in a better way then it was. I think Vince's motivations went behind his champion leaving and was more he wanted to send Bret to WCW as damaged goods. Not the convo everyone else is having but those are my thoughts on the whole Montreal Screwjob. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Another reason why Bret took the WCW deal was that Vince didn't articulate any clear plans for him going forward, aside from shipping him to WCW. As people have indicated, Bret was pushed in the end. People are probably also forgetting him using the breastplate to knock out Goldberg; that was a big moment and the feud may have main-evented PPVs if not for the horrible death of Owen. He also feuded with Sting in 1998. The truth is that people don't remember because they weren't watching. The biggest problem for Bret was the insistence on continuing the nWo angle beyond Starrcade 1997. If Sting had won the title and then feuded with the "Real World Champion" Bret Hart for a couple of months while Hogan & Savage feuded with Hall & Nash while the nWo imploded, it would've been a great use of Bret and a totally plausible scenario. Bret should've known better than anyone that Hogan's ego wouldn't let him step aside and let another heel have the limelight. Their last interaction in 1993 should've showed Bret that as long as Hogan is there, no one has a shot at moving above him. Yeah pretty much this, but Hulk would have got round to face turning and taking the belt back soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Without Bret the Attitude Era wouldn't have taken off at least not right away. It was him vs. Austin and Bret's entire heel run that laid the foundation for everything that followed. Bret helped Austin tremendously and Austin knows it and is appreciative. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thee Reverend Axl Future Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 5 hours ago, Roman said: OH MY GOD I FOUND THEM! THANK YOU! It turns out they weren't wearing face paint at all. Strange why I thought that. All I know is that I know I would have a really cool time if I could've hung out with "Shades" at 0:39. right back atcha, RAF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Web Conn said: Bret would have put over Austin, Rock and Mick. He suggested dropping the belt to Austin the night after Survivor Series. I know hindsight is 20/20 but I think the one guy who wouldn't of went on WCW TV with The WWF World Title was Bret. I think H and Shawn wanted to push Bret out and they found their out with Bret not wanting to drop the belt to Shawn cuz Shawn wouldn't do it for him when he was champ. I now the line the WWE cites of "Bret not wanting to do business" but it was he didn't want to do business with Shawn he has stated many times that he would have dropped the belt to anyone but Shawn. I think the situation could have been handled in a way better way then it should. I think Vince's motivations went behind his champion leaving and was more he wanted to send Bret to WCW as damaged goods. Not the convo everyone else is having but those are my thoughts on the whole Montreal Screwjob. I never thought of it that way but i can see that being the case but I'll always believe that if Shawn wasnt around at that time, either Vince wouldnt have pressured Bret to leave or they would've parted on better terms meaning no screw job finish at all. If he had stuck around less than 6 more months he wouldnt have had to deal with Shawn anyways. Heck if he was around after the Rumble when Shawn got hurt , Vince probably would've put Bret in Shawn's place for WM 14, i do agree with your other points though I mean he wanted to put over Shamrock before he was ready so I could see he and Shamrock at WM14 too as a tie in to the previous year, and he and Rock were close before he left so I could see him wanting to put him over in a big way too. Same with Foley and even Hunter a little later down the line and with X-Pac coming back it wouldve been cool to see them to go at with kid having more stock since '94. It wouldve be cool to see Scorpio vs Bret in a TV match even though he wasnt motivated and had his demons during his run they could've had a nice match on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted October 8, 2016 Share Posted October 8, 2016 Bret carried a cracked out Davey in 92 he could have carried a cocked out Scorp in 97. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 41 minutes ago, Web Conn said: Bret carried a cracked out Davey in 92 he could have carried a cocked out Scorp in 97. Was Scorpio that hard up for coke in 1997 that he had to be cocked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Did anyone hear that becky might be injured? Someone said Dave confirmed the rumor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 18 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: Was Scorpio that hard up for coke in 1997 that he had to be cocked up? Wouldn't be a Web Conn post if a word wasn't misspelled. Speaking of Scorpio and coke I heard that he didn't have a WWE match sober. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(BP) Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, Web Conn said: Wouldn't be a Web Conn post if a word wasn't misspelled. I just assumed it was a joke about his famously enormous penis. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 ^^^^ I didn't even think of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offspring515 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Did anyone hear that becky might be injured? Someone said Dave confirmed the rumor Yes reportedly out of tomorrow's PPV with some type of ongoing neck problem. Really hoping it's not too serious as Becky is awesome and id love her to have a long run as Smackdown's women's ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 I went to a show tonight where a white wrestler named "Pride" beat up a black wrestler named "Spade." It was a little awkward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 11 minutes ago, mattdangerously said: I went to a show tonight where a white wrestler named "Pride" beat up a black wrestler named "Spade." It was a little awkward. Similar to show where white guy heel named Roode was cheered by large percentage over the black babyface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 The one thing I don't get about the situation with Bret leaving for WCW is why they didn't think of the many other, much simpler ways of getting the title off of Bret, or better, just taking the belt from him. Have him say that win, lose, or draw, it's his last night in WWE. He wins, goes to the back, and right as he gets back to gorilla... YOU TAKE THE FUCKING TITLE FROM HIM. HELL, HE WOULD HAVE JUST HANDED IT OVER. You listen to Bret, Shawn, HHH, Vince, etc. and you'd think that Bret was a fucking ninja, like he'd go back to gorilla, drop a smoke bomb, and then vanish. Anyway, you do that same fucking thing regardless of the end result. Work an injury angle, have Bret relinquish the title, tell Bret to stay home, ANYTHING. They were just so fucking insistent on having the match between Bret and Shawn though. It's just insane. You know Bret is leaving, in your head you're going to screw him over. That's the plan. At no point did it cross Vince or Shawn's mind that maybe, just maybe, since they're planning on screwing Bret over, that they could do anything else with Bret and the title. Vince's giant concern was the world title appearing on WCW TV and there were so many simpler and less convoluted options that wouldn't have burned any bridges. Nevermind that Bret probably has a world title or 2 sitting at home from WWE, so him handing over the one that appears on TV is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 12 hours ago, The Nature Boy said: I always wonder what would've happened to WCW if Turner had someone looking over Bischoff's budgets. I understand that he made profits in the short term but carrying that level of future obligations had to have triggered some kind of "wait a second" with SOMEONE in Turner. But anyway, Bret in 1998 WWF could have actually worked. Bret as a corporate champion trying to take down Stone Cold Steve Austin throughout the spring-summer leading into Vince betraying Bret in favor of Rock at Survivor Series 1998 is easy enough to book and doesn't deviate too far from what actually happened. Bret is the prototype of the kind of champion that the Mr. McMahon character would have wanted. I could also see Bret stepping aside for Foley to win the championship in January 1999 and just floating around in the mid card - upper mid card for much of 1999. Of course, you have to figure out how to get the Mr. McMahon character launched without Montreal ever happening. Even then, you could easily launch the Mr. McMahon character without Montreal, since Austin was already against Vince after his neck injury when he wasn't getting cleared to compete and the IC Title was stripped from him. It's not hard to become Austin slowly keeps demanding it until Vince goes more and more angry, and finally sees that "Bret Hart was right after all, Austin WAS bad and the audience DO need a hero they can be proud of!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanChessgame Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Craig H said: The one thing I don't get about the situation with Bret leaving for WCW is why they didn't think of the many other, much simpler ways of getting the title off of Bret, or better, just taking the belt from him. Have him say that win, lose, or draw, it's his last night in WWE. He wins, goes to the back, and right as he gets back to gorilla... YOU TAKE THE FUCKING TITLE FROM HIM. HELL, HE WOULD HAVE JUST HANDED IT OVER. You listen to Bret, Shawn, HHH, Vince, etc. and you'd think that Bret was a fucking ninja, like he'd go back to gorilla, drop a smoke bomb, and then vanish. Anyway, you do that same fucking thing regardless of the end result. Work an injury angle, have Bret relinquish the title, tell Bret to stay home, ANYTHING. They were just so fucking insistent on having the match between Bret and Shawn though. It's just insane. You know Bret is leaving, in your head you're going to screw him over. That's the plan. At no point did it cross Vince or Shawn's mind that maybe, just maybe, since they're planning on screwing Bret over, that they could do anything else with Bret and the title. Vince's giant concern was the world title appearing on WCW TV and there were so many simpler and less convoluted options that wouldn't have burned any bridges. Nevermind that Bret probably has a world title or 2 sitting at home from WWE, so him handing over the one that appears on TV is meaningless. I wonder how much of that was Shawn's ego insisting that he win the title in an actual match instead of going with the original plan of Bret forfeiting the title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 Speaking of coke... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted October 9, 2016 Author Share Posted October 9, 2016 8 hours ago, offspring515 said: Yes reportedly out of tomorrow's PPV with some type of ongoing neck problem. Really hoping it's not too serious as Becky is awesome and id love her to have a long run as Smackdown's women's ace. If only there was a PPV thread about the show where people could have been talking about this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted October 9, 2016 Share Posted October 9, 2016 8 hours ago, SorceressKnight said: Even then, you could easily launch the Mr. McMahon character without Montreal, since Austin was already against Vince after his neck injury when he wasn't getting cleared to compete and the IC Title was stripped from him. It's not hard to become Austin slowly keeps demanding it until Vince goes more and more angry, and finally sees that "Bret Hart was right after all, Austin WAS bad and the audience DO need a hero they can be proud of!" The thing is, Mr. McMahon's character had more oomph to it because he DID screw Bret over and everyone in the crowd knew it, even the casuals. It wouldn't have been the same or as over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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