JUNE 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[zev]

Goldberg had The Streak that was so amazing, so incredible, that over 15 years later people still talk about it.

Mainly, the talk is of how Nash ruined it, and how it helped kill WCW. Once in a while it brings up chatter of Jerry Flynn being a good hand, but it's still talked about. 

WWE puts people in the HOF for one thing that happened to them years earlier. I mean, when I read the name of Don Muraco, I remember Snuka jumping off a cage on to him, and that's about it.

 

 

[PetrolCB]

Wasn't Muraco an IC champ who had a pretty good run as well as a good (from what I've sparsely read) territory run?

[SorceressKnight]

37 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

No argument, please, but why would he deserve to be in the HoF? Don't give me the Koko example. Would it be because he was a draw in such a short amount of time? I mean, he didn't really DO anything, besides kill Bret Hart.

Again, no Koko. 

Going a different route than Koko, then:

 

Goldberg's career: 1997-2004 with a break from 2001-03..

The Rock's career: 1996-2004 with sporadic appearances from 2002-04

Both guys had comparably short careers for a top star, but at their peak they were undeniably one of the biggest draws in the business and a HUGE star.

 

Absolutely no one in their right mind would deny The Rock would be a viable HOFer. 

Therefore, Goldberg is a viable HOFer as well.

[odessasteps]

I had a great chat at an indy show last weekend with Jimmy Hart about how great Koko was in Memphis, in the first familY and teaming/feuding with Bobby Eaton.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, zev said:

Goldberg had The Streak that was so amazing, so incredible, that over 15 years later people still talk about it.

Mainly, the talk is of how Nash ruined it, and how it helped kill WCW. Once in a while it brings up chatter of Jerry Flynn being a good hand, but it's still talked about. 

WWE puts people in the HOF for one thing that happened to them years earlier. I mean, when I read the name of Don Muraco, I remember Snuka jumping off a cage on to him, and that's about it.

 

 

When I think Don Muraco, I think Fuji Vice.

[Web Conn]

Rock is to me the embodiment of a "Sports Entertainer" he is what The E looks for in a wrestler and he could fucking go and have a good to great match with anyone he was across the ring with plus he can still fucking talk and he has the crowd in the palm of his hand every time he has the mic. Goldberg a lot like Nash he is in the hall could have a good to great match with the right opponent. And I don't remember Goldberg being a good talker but like Rock had the crowd in the palm of his hand when he was out there. I don't think the argument between Rock being viable inductee and Goldberg being a viable inductee is valid but I do think Goldberg should be in the hall of fame 

[bobholly138]

6 hours ago, muhammedboehm said:

Didn't some old lady call the cops during an Stone Cold match cause he was getting beat down and she didn't like it?

Back 10 years ago at a XWA show in Pascagoula at the fairgrounds,during the main event New Jack made a surprise appearance. Someone that lived right by the fairgrounds saw New Jack coming out with the trash can of plunder and called the cops. Telllig them some gang was attacking the wrestlers at the fairgrounds. The cops showed up and entered,no one knew they had been called. And come out guns drawn.

 

I know who has the footage,but they refuse to make me a copy or upload it. 

[Web Conn]

I heard about this on Colt's podcast this week it's the season finale of the Chris Gethard Show. Chris Gethard, Colt Cabana, X-Pac and Rhino vs Vacation Jason, John Hamm and Pinapple & Coconut (Brian Myers and Pat Buck). Its super fun just watch.

 

[A Guy Named Tracy]

3 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

No argument, please, but why would he deserve to be in the HoF? Don't give me the Koko example. Would it be because he was a draw in such a short amount of time? I mean, he didn't really DO anything, besides kill Bret Hart.

Again, no Koko. 

Fine, Mikel Scicluna is in the Class of 1996. Goldberg > Baron 

[Super Weak Machine]

5 hours ago, PetrolCB said:

Wasn't Muraco an IC champ who had a pretty good run as well as a good (from what I've sparsely read) territory run?

I choose to believe Muraco got in purely on the sandwich.

[RIPPA]

Look at it this way

If you are judging Goldberg based on purely WWE accomplishments - he still did more than Sting in the WWE and they put Sting in.

They put Abdullah in and he technically never worked for the company.

Same with Bob Armstrong

[Matt D]

3 hours ago, A Guy Named Tracy said:

Fine, Mikel Scicluna is in the Class of 1996. Goldberg > Baron 

Goldberg doesn't have a match better than Scicluna/Valiant vs Andre/Dibiase.

[joseph2112]

Is there a list of good Goldberg matches? I can think of about 3.

[AxB]

Goldberg matches weren't supposed to be good matches though. They were supposed to be brief squashy spotfests, only with the spots being power spots and quasi-shootstyle moves instead of flippies.

[PetrolCB]

1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Look at it this way

If you are judging Goldberg based on purely WWE accomplishments - he still did more than Sting in the WWE and they put Sting in.

They put Abdullah in and he technically never worked for the company.

Same with Bob Armstrong

I wasn't using his WWE stuff as a basis at any point. I just can't think of any way he was a notch on the belt of wrestling, besides being WCW's Stone Cold and having the streak. Like, there is nothing I can think of that makes me go, "Yeah, he really did something there." I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. I just can't honestly conjure up any reasonable explanation. Feel free to prove me wrong, anyone. 

[Technico Support]

Are we seriously arguing a wrestler's merits w/r/t whether they should be in the WWE's hall of fame?  Come on, guys.  The only criteria are if some people know you, you're on Vince's good side today, and they need bodies to fill out the list after they've picked the headliners. 

Also, remember that Goldberg ended Bret Hart's career and injured himself bare-handedly punching out a window because "Goldberg wouldn't use a lead pipe."  He was a rare combination of being dangerous to everyone and a giant mark for himself.  I don't know if that rules him out or makes him a perfect fit but the man strikes me as a big dumb douchebag.

[joseph2112]

47 minutes ago, AxB said:

Goldberg matches weren't supposed to be good matches though. They were supposed to be brief squashy spotfests, only with the spots being power spots and quasi-shootstyle moves instead of flippies.

I hear you, but I would also say that the reason those matches were like that was because that's all he really could do. Goldberg had a good look and was a rare case of WCW doing something right but in the end, you could have put probably 25 guys in that same spot and had the same or better results.

[Jenalysis]

Goldberg had a unique charisma, much like Warrior.  The DDP/Goldberg wasn't all DDP either.

 

[J.H.]

If not for injuries and bad booking Goldberg would've remained at the top in WCW for a decade but injuries and bad booking did happen and thus shortened what would've been the biggest money maker for WCW ever. But we all know what happened. If Goldberg weren't worthy of the HOF would we really be sitting here having a discussion about him?

Also, you didn't see Brock on the cover of Cat Fancy did you?

James 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Goldberg was a mini pop culture phenomenon for a minute there in 1998.  Even when WCW's inevitable slide began, it was never just "WCW sucks" it was "WCW sucks and I wish Goldberg would go to the WWF and wrestle Austin."

[RIPPA]

30 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

I wasn't using his WWE stuff as a basis at any point. I just can't think of any way he was a notch on the belt of wrestling, besides being WCW's Stone Cold and having the streak. Like, there is nothing I can think of that makes me go, "Yeah, he really did something there." I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. I just can't honestly conjure up any reasonable explanation. Feel free to prove me wrong, anyone. 

Here is the frustration - the simple answer which has been stated many times on this board (including now bluntly by Technico) is that the WWE Hall of Fame is not a real HOF. It is a HOF based on the whims of one person. It doesn't have any sort of electorate (like say the WON HOF). It is based on who Vince (or the higher ups can convince Vince of) want in (and especially how they can still make money off of them. And Goldberg's DVD out sold pretty much any DVD they put out so clearly that will appeal to them)

You seem to be ignoring this or want to believe the WWE HOF is a real HOF. So going by this assumption - a few of us have pointed out reasons why Goldberg would make much more sense in the WWE HOF than others (ignoring Koko B Ware). Those it seems doesn't impress you either (I mean I can easily find two dozen guys "worse" than Goldberg in the WWE HOF - especially using the whole career metric (since I tried to give you an out with just considering WWE/F careers)

So how else do you want us to approach this - without "arguing"?

My only other thing (putting aside the Streak - which in a kayfabe world is a very big thing). He are the holders of the WCW World Title that aren't in the WWE HOF (I am ignoring Benoit, Russo and Arquette)

• Lex Luger (figure will go in but dicey because of the Elizabeth stuff)
• Vader (lock to go in)
• The Giant (lock to go in when retired)
• Sid
• Jeff Jarrett (the only non-murderer probably who won't ever go in)
• Scott Steiner
• Chris Jericho (lock to go in when retired)
• The Rock (lock to go in - most likely this upcoming year)
• Goldberg

The guys who I don't have listed as locks could all be justifiable in eventually getting inducted (well outside of Jarrett)

And that doesn't count that he was WWE Champ, 2 time US Champ and a tag champ (along with all the other stuff that has been listed)

[Matt D]

It's a marketing tool based on Vince's ideals of wrestling. The only thing that matters is "How important is wrestler X to the history of wrestling as WWE tells it?" and even that doesn't matter all that much. It's just another part of the spoils that has gone to the winner.

That said:

Scicluna in the "Battle of Atlantic City"

 

[Raziel]

I'd add DDP to Rippa's list for not only being probably the only guy in history to start as a manager and become a Main Eventer, but also for being incredibly instrumental in Roberts and Hall being inducted while alive.

[Technico Support]

If you want to talk Goldberg's qualifications for entry into a more "real" HOF, I'd say no way.  Seriously, the guy was a hot act in a hot company for only a little over a year.  Just because he was pushed hard and booked pretty well for 15 months doesn't mean he had a HOF-worthy career.  And he didn't mean shit once the streak was over.  That alone, to me, is a testament to how "smoke and mirrors" this guy was.  He's Ahmed Johnson with better booking.

To me, Sting is a more deserving candidate and I've always found Sting to be overrated with regard to HOF discussions.

Edit, now I feel like a JDW/Crimson Mask level toolbag because I'm looking at Gordy List questions.  But suffice to say Goldberg isn't even close.

[AxB]

Goldberg wasn't all bad though: