Ramsey Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Yup, that was a spectacular hour of wrestling right there. The tag match was fantastic. How many match of the year candidates has NXT delivered this year compared to the main roster? Just a thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Finally catching up with NXT which is pretty much the only thing I watch each and every week. Emma vs. Shazza Great performance by Emma here as she just dripped disdain for her opponent with the dropkick counter to the drop down, the amazing right hand and just her overall demeanor. Shazza did come off as a poor man's Alexa Bliss and didn't show me a ton. I think Emma did a great job here showing how she could pose a threat to Asuka despite the likely result being her getting p'owned. She needed to look dominant here in order to build herself as a threat, I think its a good example of working to the situation rather than trying to have the best match possible with an unknown. Jason Jordan & Chad Gable vs Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa Best tag match since the last Jordan/Gable match? NXT tag situation has become quietly stacked during the Dusty Tag Classic with lots of fresh pairings coming out the tournament with lots of room to grow. Jordan is really coming along becoming more comfortable in his performance and acting more like Gable in terms of personality. The 'Thank You'/'You're welcome' exchange was probably the best example of this and had me engaged in the shine. Gargano continues to strike me as the star of his team and has some really good timing and muted selling going on to sell the previous work. I think he needs a splash more personality added to him since we don't know him at all at this point. The Alley Oop/Back Suplex just doesn't lose its impact with repeated viewing. Nia Jax vs. Kay Lee Ray Jax seems very comfortable with her performance to me with the shifts from KILL CRUSH DESTROY to 'smile for the camera' being effective narrative beats. The element that she is slightly playing with her opponents until she gets annoyed enough to crush them in her paws just works right now in a jobber match structure. The spinebuster looks raw enough to be especially violent and the leg drop as a exclamation point worked. I think adding a rope bounce to the leg would help build the crowd up for the landing more. Dash and Dawson vs. Enzo and Big Cass I always leave a Dash and Dawson match thinking I need to see more from the Dash side of the equation and this wasn't much different. I loved the variation on using a Indian deathlock to set up the second rope stomp to make that work. Dawson's fake limp was effective as a mocking device as well. I like the direction NXT is going with D&D and think it could actually get them some heat if they can effectively ground people down in a way that's just exciting enough without popping the crowd. Tyler Breeze vs Samoa Joe Didn't really capture my attention the way the tag match did. I kind of liked Joe's selling at the outset where he looked like he just might shake off Tyler's shots at any time but didn't because it accomplished the duel responsibility of making Joe look tough without Tyler looking ineffective. I think I may have preferred Joe keeping the clutch on a little longer than needed as the finish to demonstrate his level of frustration with the situation but that is a nit pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I really don't like Gargano and Tomossa. Like, I sorta hate them. Gable and Jordan came up in a system where working for a TV camera and learning all the little things that causes a response from the WWE audience. Gargano and Tomossa have that whole indie thing going on where they are more trying to pop a crowd by doing something as opposed to popping a crowd from being an effective character. So trying to generate a reaction through wrestling is now an "indie thing?" Okay. If you're more into "effective characters" than actual wrestling, you'd probably be best served watching, like, anything else on TV instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 So by Gregg's logic here, Gable popping the crowd with a Tiger Special was an "indie thing" I really think Gregg just hates Indy's. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Don't let Gregg troll you. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I don't know if I could disagree with that more. A wrestling character is what truly allows you to create buy in and invest in them. Answer the question 'Why should I care about Johnny Gargano the person?' first so I care about if he wins or loses. Right now, I don't have the reason to do that. We know more about guys like Dawson & Dash, Gable, Asuka and Jax with similar amount of air time. Those people work their characters (fists not flips, amateur slickness, kick/submission death, cat with toy). We don't have that for Gargano and Ciampo. Who are they? What do they want? How does that reflect in their work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's an interesting POV from someone with a Dean Malenko avatar. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They are wrestlers and they want to win the wrestling match that they are wrestling in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 They are wrestlers and they want to win the wrestling match that they are wrestling in. NO WAY PAL WE GOTTA ENTERTAINMENT IT UP A BIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Regal tweetd a pic of his neck surgery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's an interesting POV from someone with a Dean Malenko avatar. That's fucking awesome. Jesus. They're wrestlers. They want to win and some are quite badass and exciting in their pursuit of winning. It's not a hard concept to understand. Also, the wrestlers can't just choose to appear in video packages (Nia Jax) if they're not programmed for that or they don't just get to appear in backstage or PC segments trying to campaign for being a tag team (Gable and Jordan). It's not an E-Fed where you send in your promo and it appears in the write up of the show if the E-Fed runner is motivated enough to put that sort of thing together. They've received backstage promos. Regal brought them in as hyped up talent and introduced them as such before Breeze interrupted, demanding a match a Takeover Brooklyn. You know who they are? They're two fucking awesome wrestlers who put on a hell of a tag match. One of the best of the year in fact. Back to the point about Malenko, he was just a fucking awesome wrestler who did a lot of cool shit in the ring and that catapulted him into awesome feuds with Eddy and Rey, to winning the Cruiserweight title and, for those that don't remember, US title when the US title meant something. You have to be pretty obtuse to not understand that and hold lack of "character" development against someone when, yes, you have a Malenko picture for your avatar. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's an interesting POV from someone with a Dean Malenko avatar. They've received backstage promos. They did not exactly make stellar use of those backstage promo opportunities, to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Don't let Gregg troll you. Wait, everyone isn't just trolling everyone? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 That's an interesting POV from someone with a Dean Malenko avatar. They've received backstage promos. They did not exactly make stellar use of those backstage promo opportunities, to be honest. Yeah, their promos weren't anything good at all. They aren't connecting for me. I don't think they're good at acting naturally to the emotions a competitive match is supposed to convey. Jordan and Gable are really good at that. Especially Gable. They really give off a "hungry jock built for success" vibe. It looked to me like Gargano was really more thinking through that whole part of it. Like a whole, "Hey, I need to show THIS EMOTION NOW" type of thing. It didn't click for me, and I explained why. Not sure why everyone has to jump down my throat but that's cool. I also think NXT has really spoiled us. They're producing some people who are absolute masters of that sort of thing -- Bayley, Sasha, Breeze, Sami, Enzo and Cass, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dean Malenko's gimmick(s) were that he knew a bunch of holds and was cool and collected. He worked as a counter point to fired up baby faces like Rey Mysterio Jr. when he was a heel and blew the roof off the place when he finally fired up on Chris Jericho when he was a face. Dean is also generally critiqued for working in a vacuum and never got over in front of the WWE audience like he did in WCW. He's one of my favorites but isn't one of the best of all time or anything. I feel like we are aping Jim Cornette's 'your gimmick is that you are a wrestler' talking point which is so absurd coming from the "Momma's boy, tennis racket swinging, Louisville Slugger, yellow canary jacket" man himself. No, being a good wrestler is not enough. Its never been enough ever. Name any wrestler who ever became anything and he/she had a persona that helped mold their performance in some way. Ciampo and Gargano don't yet seem to have a unified theme to their performances that will let them get really over. Their backstage conversation with Regal was supposed to have an air of menace I think? Like "oh interrupt us will you?" but Gargano's winky happy face gear doesn't reflect that at all and neither do their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Dash and Dawson- just feel like they'd be great with Zeb. Maybe let them job a few times on TV, have Zeb say he'd help them reach their potential, then they bring out what got them to the table in NXT. as for Malenko- he showed character work that was effective in WCW- mostly in the Jericho feud, but a lot of that was feeding off Jericho. When you're as good as Malenko- your wrestling can be your character- but Ciampa/Gargano aren't anywhere near Malenko's level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Isn't Gargano and Ciampa's gimmick that they're outsiders who have worked hard and are now getting their first big break? I mean it's a simple backstory that's been used lots of other times, but it seems pretty obtuse to say they don't have one. It's been clearly established from their introduction with Regal, how the announcers talk about them, and their one or two quick backstage promos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 As someone pretty much in a WWE/NXT/ROH bubble, I've enjoyed what I've seen so far out of Gargano. That dive-through-middle-rope-spear on Gable was pretty swank. I imagine he'll keep improving the more he works with steady NXT regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Another important thing to keep in mind is that Gargano and Ciamp are NOT SIGNED BY WWE. They are glorified enhancement talent. That's why they play such milquetoast, "Gosh, we're just happy to have this opportunity" charcters in what little backstage promo time they get. And I would almost certainly assume they're told to work hard but not outshine the actual NXT talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I thought Gargano did sign a bit ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trocar Slush Weasel Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Isn't Gargano and Ciampa's gimmick that they're outsiders who have worked hard and are now getting their first big break? I mean it's a simple backstory that's been used lots of other times, but it seems pretty obtuse to say they don't have one. It's been clearly established from their introduction with Regal, how the announcers talk about them, and their one or two quick backstage promos. I have no idea, but I do know that Regal made them look like Vanilla Midgets 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 What if RAW had to be booked like NXT (taped well in advance and was only one hour a week with every 2-3 months a 2 hour special) I just wonder how much different RAW would be if it had NXT's constraints which work in NXT's favor of being the better product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 It seems like a good idea in theory, but it wouldn't be the same. In NXT, top guys kinda rotate, like one week you get a Finn match, Joe the next, Bayley the next. If RAW was an hour, you'd get a Cena match, Reigns match, and Brock promo every week. RAW answers to USA and advertisers to whatever degree, so they'd want the top guys all the time. It'd be a quality show, but not really like NXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 NXT is pretty much a full hour start to finish thesedays, as compared to the 80ish minutes for Smackdown minus ads. Knock out the promos with Teddy coming out to slow rolls and book tag matches and you're pretty close. Rumblings suggested that Smackdown will go live on Tuesdays when it moves to USA next year. I'm hoping this will mean the end of the 3 hour RAW, because going 5 hours over 2 nights every week would be crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 They're getting paid too much for that hour to get rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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