Hagan Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 Who was Jason the Terrible at ECW Double Tables ‘95? Wiki links to Smother’s page because he played the role but I don’t think it’s The Main Man.
DMJ Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 Okay, some questions about "The Narcissist" Lex Luger. Not sure if its been discussed before. So... Luger gets hired for the WBF, the WBF folds, and Luger comes back to the ring in as a heel with Heenan as his manager. Its not a bad idea, especially as, by this point, I'm guessing Vince knew Flair was on his way out so it makes total sense for Luger to come in as the new top heel. But what was the long-term plan? To face Bret at SummerSlam? Or did Vince already have Hogan's return locked-in in January? So, Hogan/Luger at SummerSlam? Or was Hogan's deal always just going to be a couple months long and end at King of the Ring 93'? I guess I'm just curious where Vince's head was at with Luger and his entire main event scene, especially as, at the time, I feel like they had 6-7 months planned out ahead of time. I mean, Luger was a big enough "name" to come in and be the top heel but at the same time, Vince also had Yokozuna getting a monster push. So, if Hogan never comes back, does Bret beat Yoko and then feud with Luger? Was Luger's heel run always designed to be short-lived?
thee Reverend Axl Future Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 Luger was Mr. McMahon's ideal wrestler form at that time - I always surmised (and I don't remember the WON talk from that time) that he was to turn ASAP, face vacuum, heel surplus or not. Look at how he was loaded - pushed as a reformed heel, body builder, super strong, a patriot AND a bionic magic forearm. LL does not have enough personality to carry the main baby champ role (or the main heel role for too long, even with a manager, in my opinion). Hindsight and all that... - RAF 1
Shartnado Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 Before the face turn, Luger was sort of feuding with Bret already (since WMIX brunch or something) , but that was abandoned with the face turn. I have heard that the original plan was Hogan vs Bret for the title at SummerSlam, with Hogan putting Bret over as the new top guy. Hogan was OK with it if he got the title at Mania, then went back on his word once he got it, hence the Yokozuna squash at KotR. Now, I have no idea if any of this is accurate or not, but you'd figure that Luger was the next heel in line for the title shot after Bret regained the belt. The face turn did seem very abrupt at the time and still does.
Infinit Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 28 minutes ago, Shartnado said: Before the face turn, Luger was sort of feuding with Bret already (since WMIX brunch or something) , but that was abandoned with the face turn. I have heard that the original plan was Hogan vs Bret for the title at SummerSlam, with Hogan putting Bret over as the new top guy. Hogan was OK with it if he got the title at Mania, then went back on his word once he got it, hence the Yokozuna squash at KotR. Now, I have no idea if any of this is accurate or not, but you'd figure that Luger was the next heel in line for the title shot after Bret regained the belt. The face turn did seem very abrupt at the time and still does. Didn't Lex knock out Mr Perfect at the Mania brunch?
Shartnado Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Infinit said: Didn't Lex knock out Mr Perfect at the Mania brunch? He did knock out both guys, not quite sure when was which? Either way, Perfect brawled with HBK after his loss to Luger, so maybe Luger knocked out Bret in a press conference afterwards, or something? I do seem to remember that the said knock out was mentioned as one of the reasons why Bret lost to Yokozuna in the first place, so maybe not? But there definitely was shit going down between Luger and Bret, already at WMIX! 1
Technico Support Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 LOOOOOL how many times has Hogan pulled the "job for me now and I'll return the favor later, brother" bullshit? Guy is a master. 1 1
Shartnado Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, Technico Support said: LOOOOOL how many times has Hogan pulled the "job for me now and I'll return the favor later, brother" bullshit? Guy is a master. Several. Oh, that must have been one those rhetorical questions, am I right? '93 was probably still so early in the game, that someone would still fall for his bullshit. It amazes me that people would fall for it in the early 2000's and later. 1
Happ Hazzard Posted November 12, 2020 Posted November 12, 2020 I think the Narcissist gimmick really damaged Luger in the eyes of the WWF fans. If they'd brought him in as the Total Package, (and he WAS the Total Package in the WBF, including in his interview at WM8) as a heel and a surprise entrant in the '93 Rumble, and then turned him face the same way they did, I think he gets over a lot more than he did. Obviously the booking was all over the place that year, I don't think they had planned for Hogan to win the title at Mania at the time Luger debuted, and I certainly don't think they knew Hogan was leaving for good in a few months when they put the belt on him at 'Mania. 2
thee Reverend Axl Future Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 The Narcissist was a shite gimmick, despite the hard work of The Brain, and it did LL no favors. It did not help that it appeared that he had never heard the word "narcissist", let alone Narcissus, before he joined the WWF. The Total Package was a solid if minimal gimmick and more his speed, Allah bless his pointy little head. woof, RAF
Vgmastr Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 I'd say what really killed Luger was the finish to the Summerslam match with Yokozuna. Going into the match he knew it was his only title shot, yet he knocks Yoko out of the ring, then happily counts along with the ref for the 10 count and celebrates with all the babyfaces and balloons dropping from the ceiling. He blew his one and only title shot and is celebrating like he won the title, it made him look like a complete idiot. Even as an 11 year old mark who ate up all of the WWF's bullshit like it was ice cream, I knew the finish absolutely sucked. 8
Happ Hazzard Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Vgmastr said: I'd say what really killed Luger was the finish to the Summerslam match with Yokozuna. Going into the match he knew it was his only title shot, yet he knocks Yoko out of the ring, then happily counts along with the ref for the 10 count and celebrates with all the babyfaces and balloons dropping from the ceiling. He blew his one and only title shot and is celebrating like he won the title, it made him look like a complete idiot. Even as an 11 year old mark who ate up all of the WWF's bullshit like it was ice cream, I knew the finish absolutely sucked. Yeah absolutely, but I think Luger's failure to get over as much as expected was what made them delay putting the belt on him. It was absolutely crazy to do the celebration after the match at SummerSlam, the actual booking was reasonable enough, Luger wins but doesn't win the title, and has to somehow get another title shot, culminating with him entering and winning the Royal Rumble. But he should have been pissed off at SummerSlam, not being paraded round the ring on the Steiner's shoulders, with balloons and confetti dropping from the sky.
AxB Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 When you consider the entire history of people being on the Steiner's shoulders, Luger should be thanking his lucky stars he was just being paraded, rather than Bulldogged or DDT'ed or something. 1 6
BloodyChamp Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Luger was really mad when he lost to Flair by countout, so I guess he was really glad that he beat Yoko by count out. 3
Shartnado Posted November 14, 2020 Posted November 14, 2020 Speaking of Luger and Steiners, when there was the Yokozuna bodyslam challenge, was there a coin toss or something to decide which Steiner brother gets to attempt? As I didn't see Scott giving it a go in the recap on Superstars. It's just that if Luger could supposedly slam Yokozuna, I'd have hard time buying that Scott couldn't!
Brian Fowler Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 On 11/12/2020 at 11:43 PM, Vgmastr said: I'd say what really killed Luger was the finish to the Summerslam match with Yokozuna. Going into the match he knew it was his only title shot, yet he knocks Yoko out of the ring, then happily counts along with the ref for the 10 count and celebrates with all the babyfaces and balloons dropping from the ceiling. He blew his one and only title shot and is celebrating like he won the title, it made him look like a complete idiot. Even as an 11 year old mark who ate up all of the WWF's bullshit like it was ice cream, I knew the finish absolutely sucked. And I don't think Vince considered just how much Lex was already seen as "can't win the big one" after coming up short against Flair repeatedly, only getting the WCW belt after Flair was fired without having to take it from anyone, and having such an uneventful reign before dropping it on his way out. That Yoko match sealed it, he was the guy who got close but never beats the champ. 2
DreamBroken Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 On 11/14/2020 at 3:04 AM, Shartnado said: Speaking of Luger and Steiners, when there was the Yokozuna bodyslam challenge, was there a coin toss or something to decide which Steiner brother gets to attempt? As I didn't see Scott giving it a go in the recap on Superstars. It's just that if Luger could supposedly slam Yokozuna, I'd have hard time buying that Scott couldn't! the full version is on the Network and includes both Steiners. My favorite of the hidden gem uploads. 1
PetrolCB Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 36 minutes ago, DreamBroken said: the full version is on the Network and includes both Steiners. My favorite of the hidden gem uploads. Yes, and if you want to watch it and have a laugh, the OSW boys reviewed it... 2 1
Shartnado Posted November 16, 2020 Posted November 16, 2020 4 hours ago, DreamBroken said: the full version is on the Network and includes both Steiners. My favorite of the hidden gem uploads. Wow, that sucks for Scotty, then! Crush and bunch of others did ok shoot(?) lifting Yoko a tiny bit off the ground, but I guess the metal forearm shot to the forehead made Yoko leap into Luger's arms, instead of getting knocked out, like everyone else (including himself about every other time he got hit with it). 1
Shartnado Posted November 18, 2020 Posted November 18, 2020 I just watched the Demolition - Colossal Connection title change on Prime Time, which got me thinking: Was this title change only necessitated by Tully and Arn leaving? Was the original plan for Demolition to regain from Brainbusters at WMVI? Does anyone know if this was the case or not?
sydneybrown Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 19 hours ago, Shartnado said: I just watched the Demolition - Colossal Connection title change on Prime Time, which got me thinking: Was this title change only necessitated by Tully and Arn leaving? Was the original plan for Demolition to regain from Brainbusters at WMVI? Does anyone know if this was the case or not? I want to say yes. The Demo/Busters title change was really weird in that WWF took FOREVER to air it. It happened on October 2, and they sat on it until November 4 (Tully had already been fired by the time it aired.) There was an out where Demolition pinned the wrong man that the Apter mags made note of, but it was edited out of the actual match. I think if they got Tully & Arn to stay, the decision would have been reversed or not aired at all. Once Tully was axed, Andre & Haku did one TV taping as a team and then won the titles immediately after. 1
Shartnado Posted November 19, 2020 Posted November 19, 2020 2 hours ago, sydneybrown said: I want to say yes. The Demo/Busters title change was really weird in that WWF took FOREVER to air it. It happened on October 2, and they sat on it until November 4 (Tully had already been fired by the time it aired.) There was an out where Demolition pinned the wrong man that the Apter mags made note of, but it was edited out of the actual match. I think if they got Tully & Arn to stay, the decision would have been reversed or not aired at all. Once Tully was axed, Andre & Haku did one TV taping as a team and then won the titles immediately after. Yeah, some of the stuff regarding the Tully, Brainbusters-Demolition and that particular title change have been discussed here previously, but it only occured to me upon watching Colossal Connection win the titles, that Demolition's second title reign altogether was something of a back-up plan. What ened up being their 3rd reign only should have been their second, starting at WMVI. As a storyline, it worked out pretty well. Heenan panics, as Brainbusters lose the titles and hauls out Andre to desperately try and win them back. They do, but Andre is nearing the end of his career and Haku needs to carry the workload and Andre is mostly used as the big immovable lump that you cannot kick out from under. Demolition, embarrassed by their quick and decisive loss, level up upon the rematch and figure this out. When they lost the titles, Smash didn't tag in once, while in a match where they regained the belts, Andre didn't. So, Ax and Smash obviously figured some shit out between the matches. Heenan loses another title, loses his shit, fires Andre and gets slapped around. Andre gets to turn face and unofficially retire. Of course, this sparked something in Demolition, too! Maybe they thought, "phew, that was close" and got a third member and turned heel again, because they didn't want to feel overmatched like that again? Then LOD shows up and it's all down hill for Demos after that! 2
Log Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 Was there any sort of tease before the Undertaker’s debut or was it just DiBiase having a mystery partner on his team and that was it?
Zimbra Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Log said: Was there any sort of tease before the Undertaker’s debut or was it just DiBiase having a mystery partner on his team and that was it? I only recall them hyping up that he had a mystery partner without any hints as to who it was, but my memory could be faulty. Another Undertaker question: Was he doing the chokeslam from the start or did he add that to his offense later on?
PetrolCB Posted November 23, 2020 Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Zimbra said: Another Undertaker question: Was he doing the chokeslam from the start or did he add that to his offense later on? I dunno about the one we all know; but there is a spot in his debut, where he shoots Bret off the ropes and goes for the throat and slams him. No gap, sort of like a Bossman Slam speed.
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