The Old School Questions thread

[Shartnado 577]

I just watched the Demolition - Colossal Connection title change on Prime Time, which got me thinking: Was this title change only necessitated by Tully and Arn leaving? Was the original plan for Demolition to regain from Brainbusters at WMVI? Does anyone know if this was the case or not?

[sydneybrown 2,348]

19 hours ago, Shartnado said:

I just watched the Demolition - Colossal Connection title change on Prime Time, which got me thinking: Was this title change only necessitated by Tully and Arn leaving? Was the original plan for Demolition to regain from Brainbusters at WMVI? Does anyone know if this was the case or not?

I want to say yes.  The Demo/Busters title change was really weird in that WWF took FOREVER to air it.  It happened on October 2, and they sat on it until November 4 (Tully had already been fired by the time it aired.)  There was an out where Demolition pinned the wrong man that the Apter mags made note of, but it was edited out of the actual match.  I think if they got Tully & Arn to stay, the decision would have been reversed or not aired at all.  Once Tully was axed, Andre & Haku did one TV taping as a team and then won the titles immediately after.

[Shartnado 577]

2 hours ago, sydneybrown said:

I want to say yes.  The Demo/Busters title change was really weird in that WWF took FOREVER to air it.  It happened on October 2, and they sat on it until November 4 (Tully had already been fired by the time it aired.)  There was an out where Demolition pinned the wrong man that the Apter mags made note of, but it was edited out of the actual match.  I think if they got Tully & Arn to stay, the decision would have been reversed or not aired at all.  Once Tully was axed, Andre & Haku did one TV taping as a team and then won the titles immediately after.

Yeah, some of the stuff regarding the Tully, Brainbusters-Demolition and that particular title change have been discussed here previously, but it only occured to me upon watching Colossal Connection win the titles, that Demolition's second title reign altogether was something of a back-up plan. What ened up being their 3rd reign only should have been their second, starting at WMVI.

As a storyline, it worked out pretty well. Heenan panics, as Brainbusters lose the titles and hauls out Andre to desperately try and win them back. They do, but Andre is nearing the end of his career and Haku needs to carry the workload and Andre is mostly used as the big immovable lump that you cannot kick out from under. Demolition, embarrassed by their quick and decisive loss, level up upon the rematch and figure this out.

When they lost the titles, Smash didn't tag in once, while in a match where they regained the belts, Andre didn't. So, Ax and Smash obviously figured some shit out between the matches. Heenan loses another title, loses his shit, fires Andre and gets slapped around. Andre gets to turn face and unofficially retire.

Of course, this sparked something in Demolition, too! Maybe they thought, "phew, that was close" and got a third member and turned heel again, because they didn't want to feel overmatched like that again? Then LOD shows up and it's all down hill for Demos after that!

[Log 1,502]

Was there any sort of tease before the Undertaker’s debut or was it just DiBiase having a mystery partner on his team and that was it? 

[Zimbra 3,997]

9 minutes ago, Log said:

Was there any sort of tease before the Undertaker’s debut or was it just DiBiase having a mystery partner on his team and that was it? 

I only recall them hyping up that he had a mystery partner without any hints as to who it was, but my memory could be faulty.

Another Undertaker question: Was he doing the chokeslam from the start or did he add that to his offense later on?

[PetrolCB 9,312]

1 hour ago, Zimbra said:

Another Undertaker question: Was he doing the chokeslam from the start or did he add that to his offense later on?

I dunno about the one we all know; but there is a spot in his debut, where he shoots Bret off the ropes and goes for the throat and slams him. No gap, sort of like a Bossman Slam speed.

[BobbyWhioux 3,513]

Sid was the first choke slam guy that I recall seeing, using it as his main setup move. Undertaker adopted it as it started to spread but before it became such a compulsory Big Guy move sometime after Giant/Big Show proved it could be your finishing move & 911 proved it could be your only move

[Zimbra 3,997]

5 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

Sid was the first choke slam guy that I recall seeing, using it as his main setup move. Undertaker adopted it as it started to spread but before it became such a compulsory Big Guy move sometime after Giant/Big Show proved it could be your finishing move & 911 proved it could be your only move

That's kinda what I thought since I couldn't remember him doing a chokeslam early in his career.  But I also couldn't really remember Sid using the chokeslam so I know my memory is faulty.

20 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

I dunno about the one we all know; but there is a spot in his debut, where he shoots Bret off the ropes and goes for the throat and slams him. No gap, sort of like a Bossman Slam speed.

Oh, I remember this move from WCW/NWO Revenge but don't recall ever seeing a real person do it.  Interesting!

[BloodyChamp 163]

Was Hall who did the move in WCW/NWO Revenge by any chance? He did something like that but not what I’d call a chokeslam in all of his squash matches as The Diamond Studd, probably as Razor to but I never saw the WWF much. 

Fast forward to the unbelievably awesome match he had vs Luger at the 1st to last ever Clash and he did it again, that 1 time in WCW to Luger who obviously wasn’t light. That made the only time I ever saw him do it to anybody who wasn’t a tiny jobber. The announcers called it a chokeslam and noted that he’d never done one. 

As for WCW/NWO Revenge, I still say it’s the GOAT wrestling game and N64 game. One of the cool things about it was that every guy had so many secondary moves like that would have been for Hall, that weren’t just plugged into the buttons. You had to be in 1 place or another while your opponent was in 1 circumstance or another, then whatever move you did in those random spots weren’t just by mashing 1 button or combo of buttons across the board. There’s probably a list of every single move for every single guy somewhere in the internet now but it had to have took years to make. 

 

 

[Morganti 831]

There were lists really early on. The caw community was big and you had to actually make choices for every spot.  Me and a friend used to literally make 40 characters with gimmicks and moves based on those gimmicks then do team battle royals.

[Brian Fowler 15,308]

Hall used to do that move that was like somewhere in between a chokeslam and The Rock Bottom

[zendragon 353]

I seem to recall Hall doing it in a match against the 1-2-3 kid, maybe the crybaby match

[AxB 11,863]

The thing he used to do as part of that hiptoss reversal sequence with Shawn, where Shawn would put his leg over Razor's head* and Ramon would backdrop him and Shawn would land on his feet? Same chokeslam as Taue used to do, innit?

* I always thought this was supposed to be him going for the Rocker Dropper/ FameAsser, but they skipped the bit of the reversal elevation programme where he actually hit the move. Every time he did it, he got reversed.

[Hustler of Culture 70]

Hall was the first I saw do the chokeslam.  He would do it where he would fall to both knees as he slammed the guy to the mat.  Sid would fall to one knee.  Versus say The Big Show who would not fall to either knee.

 

My guess is that Hall saw it from somebody in Japan when he worked for NJPW in the 80's as he seemed to get much of his moveset from there.

 

 

 

 

HoC

[Zimbra 3,997]

12 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Was Hall who did the move in WCW/NWO Revenge by any chance? He did something like that but not what I’d call a chokeslam in all of his squash matches as The Diamond Studd, probably as Razor to but I never saw the WWF much. 

Goldberg had the swinging chokeslam as a running counter finisher, even though I don't think he ever used it in real life.  Hall just had a standard chokeslam.

[BloodyChamp 163]

17 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Hall used to do that move that was like somewhere in between a chokeslam and The Rock Bottom

This was definitely it. Not sure about the counters on HBK because I didn’t watch WWF but it doesn’t sound right as he didn’t do to many counter moves against jobbers in old WCW.

[Eoae 851]

I mentioned Lance Von Erich indirectly in another thread and I started wondering what possessed Fritz to go on tv and admit that Lance wasn't a real Von Erich (which he did after Lance jumped to Wild West Wrestling).  Was he so angry that he just didn't think it through?  Or did he reason that the only thing worse than admitting you brought in a fake Von Erich was pretending that a real Von Erich was wrestling for a rival promotion

Guessing Fritz underestimated the fallout.  A lot of people knew, of course, but wrestling was still real to a much of the ticket-buying public and they believed Fritz would never lie to them.  

Along those lines, I wonder how Kerry or David would have done in the WWF.  Kerry was in the WWF, of course, but by then he was a drug-addicted shell of himself.  The "Modern Day Warrior" character was larger than life to begin with and seems tailor-made for the cartoonish 1980's WWF.

Less sure about David.

[elizium 2,449]

I think David would have done quite well for himself, especially if you're slotting him into the WWF around 84/85. He obviously wouldn't have been at Hogan's level, but I think Vince would have seen great value in keeping him strong. I can imagine him at the IC level with Valentine and then Savage. Maybe he gets the push that Santana got in 84, as the B house show attraction, especially if they try running Texas and the Southwest earlier than they actually did (I don't believe the went down there until 85).

[Morganti 831]

Hall's choke slam was to make fun of the Giant, at least when he was doin it in WCW...we jokingly called it the crock bottom. 

He even had a taunt where he riffed on the old Frankenstien's monster no knee walk with the arms out front.

Now i wanna fire up Revenge, and then No Mercy.

[AxB 11,863]

Taker's Choke Slam is the child of Taue's Nodowa*, and the old Neck Hanging Tree hold (double handed choke lift) they used to give guys like Giant Gonzalez as an "even you can't fuck this up, surely" Big Man spot. Early Taker (in like 91) was forever grabbing people by the throat as a fun alternative to doing a nerve hold or some shit, but it was a few years before he started doing the high lift chokeslam out of it. But it was either him or Sid who really established the now- standard (I hold your neck and lift you up by your armpit, and you post on my shoulder so I can lock my elbow out) slow Chokeslam as a legit big move.

* I'm not sure if he invented it per se, but if he didn't invent it, he certainly popularised it. Does anyone remember someone using the Nodowa before Taue?

[Curt McGirt 12,790]

Yeah! Don't forget about making the face and pretending to throw the chokeslam arm up. 

EDIT: Re: Scott Hall making fun of the Giant

Edited November 25, 2020 by Curt McGirt

[BloodyChamp 163]

Fritz was the same combination of washed up, in denial, paranoid, and just plain scared as Hogan was in WCW at the end. He’d come up with just anything to make something somebody else’s fault or something. A list of WCCW eff ups could be made that was as long and embarrassingly funny as that 1 made the rounds about WCW with the white tiger arriving on the circus truck that nobody knew anything about. It was Fritz’s empire of shit atleast. He could say he owned it and could do what he wanted unlike Hogan ultimately.

Also Kerry Von Erich is in my top 10 list of best looking punches ever. He was good at the little things. He could have been half Bret Hart half Ultimate Warrior. Dang younguns why’d ya hafta go and do it??? We could be having Thanksgiving Star Wars right now!!!

[Hustler of Culture 70]

Word was out pretty good by then on Lance Von Erich being a fake Von Erich.  I chalk it up to Fritz being desperate.  From reading Gary Hart's book Fritz had really big hangups about money.  The Von Erich name was a huge brand in Texas and quite frankly a money making machine, thus the creation of Lance.  And when it got exposed that he wasn't a real Von Erich, Fritz panicked and announced he wasn't a real Von Erich without thinking how bad and stupid it would make the entire family look.

Kerry was a huge name in the business even in NY at the time.  Combine that with his physique he fit in line with what Vince liked,but I doubt he would have been pushed as a main eventer as he was 'too Texan' for Vince's tastes.  I don't think he would have jobbed Kerry out given how he gave the Funks and Ron Bass legitimate quality runs. But I don't see Kerry getting pushed to main event status.  He probably would have gotten the I-C title and then they wouldn't commit to putting him above that level even though that was a natural progression for most babyfaces.

I have my doubts about David as well particularly with David's physique.  I loved DVE to death, but he didn't seem like Vince's type of wrestler. The biggest thing that could have possibly turned that around is that David was pretty good on the mic.  Or he might have teamed Kerry and David together.

 

 

 

HoC

[zendragon 353]

4 hours ago, Morganti said:

Hall's choke slam was to make fun of the Giant, at least when he was doin it in WCW...we jokingly called it the crock bottom. 

He even had a taunt where he riffed on the old Frankenstien's monster no knee walk with the arms out front.

Now i wanna fire up Revenge, and then No Mercy.

What was weird was he kept doing the move after The Giant rejoined the NWO

[tbarrie 906]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

What was weird was he kept doing the move after The Giant rejoined the NWO

Hall couldn't keep track of who was in the NWO any better than the rest of us.