ALL OUT VI - 9/7/2024

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

9 minutes ago, SovietShooter said:

To play Devil's Advocate a bit... what about Eddie Gilbert running over Jerry Lawler with his car?  Was it just wrestling continuity when Terry Funk used the bag on Flair?  What about Raven crucifying Sandman and stealing his wife & son?  Tommy Dreamer piledriving various women?  Pouring beer on Scott Hall? Kevin Sullivan spiking Wing Kanamura? Bad News breaking The Stomper's son's neck?

Where is the line, and when is it crossed?

Everyone always forgets about the aftermath of those events.

- Gilbert running over Lawler nearly got their show shut down because fans called the cops, who showed up and were going to charge Gilbert, which necessitated Lawler having to go on TV and say he was fine.
- Funk using the plastic bag on Flair got WCW cracked down on by Turner Broadcasting.
- Raven crucifying Sandman caused Kurt Angle, who was being courted by ECW, to walk out.
- Tommy Dreamer piledriving women and Kevin Sullivan spiking W*ING Kanemura cost ECW and SMW TV outlets.
- Bad News Allen breaking Jeff Gouldie's neck caused Ed Whalen to quit and say that violence went too far, and a few months later, Stampede is sold to the WWF.

So all those things had mild-to-dire consequences to the business of the promotions that performed these things. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that AEW's going to suffer similar consequences, but it's hard to do something like that and get away clean. 

[odessasteps]

Arguably the greatest cage match and greatest Starrcade match ends with a wooden piece of chair being gouged into someone’s forehead and maybe their eye? But it makes sense diegetically in a wrestling match. 

[odessasteps]

Imagine a world where Kurt Angle startsd in ECW and not the WWF. 

[just drew]

I took down my earlier post, but for clarity; some buddies and I went to Dave and Buster's to watch the show last night. The good news; they all had a great time and plan on checking out Dynamite. The bad news; I was overserved and did my Mad Dog Marty Sugar tribute and got on here and started talking shit. Apologies. 

[Octopus]

13 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Imagine a world where Kurt Angle startsd in ECW and not the WWF. 

The Sandman feud of Milk vs Beer.

[Octopus]

Just now, just drew said:

I took down my earlier post, but for clarity; some buddies and I went to Dave and Buster's to watch the show last night. The good news; they all had a great time and plan on checking out Dynamite. The bad news; I was overserved and did my Mad Dog Marty Sugar tribute and got on here and started talking shit. Apologies. 

I hear they have some good app deals right now. You recommend their wings or anything?

[just drew]

1 minute ago, Octopus said:

I hear they have some good app deals right now. You recommend their wings or anything?

The food is basically fancy Buffalo Wild Wings. High floor, low ceiling bar food. Except the burgers. They're phenomenal. 

[Sublime]

42 minutes ago, SovietShooter said:

To play Devil's Advocate a bit... what about Eddie Gilbert running over Jerry Lawler with his car?  Was it just wrestling continuity when Terry Funk used the bag on Flair?  What about Raven crucifying Sandman and stealing his wife & son?  Tommy Dreamer piledriving various women?  Pouring beer on Scott Hall? Kevin Sullivan spiking Wing Kanamura? Bad News breaking The Stomper's son's neck?

Where is the line, and when is it crossed?

Running people over rarely works for me, just like anytime some one smashed an ambulance or other vehicle with someone “in” it.

The plastic bag don’t work for me even when it involves Terry Funk whom I hold as the greatest wrestler ever, it was still too far.

Pouring beer on a known alcoholic was tasteless and awful and only soured me on Steve Austin more.

EcW was a bit of a different animal to me it was almost a lucha undergroumd environment where it was slightly detached from the real world. At least while they were mostly in the ECW arena. Dreamers violence against women is a reason I’ve never been a fan of his.

I haven’t see the other examples but they sound pretty bad. 

[Greggulator]

Swerve/Page last night reminded me a lot of the Jackass guys, and I mean that as a compliment. There are so many things in the Jackass movies that can go absolutely wrong and/or are beyond fucked up to try: Like letting scorpions attack your nipples or shit like that. Or taking a spine bump on a cinder block. One of my favorite matches of all time is Born To Be Wired. Sabu might be my all-time favorite wrestler. I saw The Murder Junkies live. (Post-GG, but still.) 

I am a family man with a master’s degree and a lot of positivity in my life.

But there is a part of me that wants to live I. some nihilistic, crazed world where I could let a venomous snake bite an organ for laughs or burn down an enemy’s house or to hate someone so much I will get up from having my spine dropped across building materials so I can torture him. I am willing to admit that this chaotic darkness is something I find attractive. Stuff like last night’s cage match or the Hated documentary or other things like that are as far as I am willing to go into that dark corner. That’s why I love a good death match or bloodbath.

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

I watched the show and all I can think about is JR saying "veteran type maneuver" at one point

Isn't a 'veteran type' maneuver just a veteran maneuver?

Did anything else big happen?

[username]

I am going to the dentist on Tuesday which means there are live odds I'm gonna get jabbed with a bigger needle than Swerve was, I'll try to be less of a baby about it than he was

Seriously though I may end up getting roped in to doing some immunizations again this year, 80 year olds are handling this fine, keep your violent stuff to things most of the population doesn't have actual experience with, stopping to jab someone with a needle before smashing a chair over their head is silly unless you are like going to the eye with it.

Also I know I am going to be on an island on this one but... I thought ending a lights outs match with a ref stoppage was dumb even though I can logically follow why it would not be. They should be allowed to continue until one man is tired of beating on the other, not because someone from the company not sanctioning the match said so.

Edited September 9 by username

[Casey]

I’d argue a KO finish is a better way to end an unsanctioned match than pinfall or submission. Or just one dude going, “okay I’m bored now”.

[Jenalysis]

I think some of the fact folks felt this crossed a line was due to the character work of Hangman and Swerve, more than the actual violence.  They got it across not just with the weapons, but emotionally.  Seeing Hangman fall from being the sheriff to AEW to a slobbering berserker is scary.  Swerve is just scary period.

The best horror is emotional not physical.

Yeah, I still feel uncomfortable,  but I know it's because they did their jobs really well- perhaps too well.

 

[Craig H]

I think I pinpointed what I love most about Swerve as a heel and when he goes into that zone where he’s not selling anything. It reminds me of Goblin era Tyler the Creator. Just a dude with the darkest soul and is powerful as fuck.

I rewatched the suffocation angle again and it still didn’t quite work for me outside of Wheeler crying. It’s just not remotely believable in the way that Swerve and Hangman is believable. That and on screen Danielson repositions the bag so that it’s above his mouth or in between his teeth. I’m not looking for the dude to actually be suffocated, but outside of Mox looking totally emotionless juxtaposed with Yuta crying I don’t think the visual of Danielson works. The actual act doesn’t work in the same way Rollins gouging out Rey Jr’s eye doesn’t work because it’s a little too fake. I think it may have been better for Mox to have used a garrote with Danielson’s fingers in it instead.

[zendragon]

8 hours ago, Sublime said:

I want to elaborate on why some of the cage match didn’t work for me it wasn’t just the violence in itself and what I’m saying is just as much about the bag angle beforehand as well. But there is a level of violence that takes me out of my sense of disbelief and attempted murder is that. Unless a promotion has built a detailed contained world it exists in, like Lucha Underground or Chikara did, I take wrestling to be a sport in event taking place in the real world. And stuff like suffocating people and fighting to stab each other in the face go beyond wrestling violence. Why should Daniel Bryan the family man we just watch having his family be everything to him not go to the authorities to have Mox arrested for trying to kill him and destroy his family , instead it will be settled in the ring? That doesn’t work with my view of the world AEW exists in. This is the reason I’ve always thought Inferno matches were dumb  or any time of lighting someone on fire has been done is too far. 
 

because pro wrestling is a world in which dispute is settled via bodyslam

[zendragon]

6 hours ago, just drew said:

I took down my earlier post, but for clarity; some buddies and I went to Dave and Buster's to watch the show last night. The good news; they all had a great time and plan on checking out Dynamite. The bad news; I was overserved and did my Mad Dog Marty Sugar tribute and got on here and started talking shit. Apologies. 

Just Drew after one too many IPAs

Spoiler

 

[just drew]

3 hours ago, zendragon said:

Just Drew after one too many IPAs

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Two things:

im a lager guy. I like myself too much to pretend to enjoy drinking skunk juice. 
 

I am a hoss, and I did very little to earn it. I come from a long line of big people. Like JR says about Bobby Lashley, I “won the genetic lottery.” Suffice to say I did far less with my winning ticket than The Lash did. 

[Matt D]

Caught Willow vs Stat and the cage match on the way in today. That was one hell of a bus ride. Four great performances in how they reacted to things and the emotions they put forth. I think I'm more excited for where things go next. What if this version of Page crashes into Ospreay next? What does that look like? There's no other babyface that can stand up to Stat. What if she gets in the way of a returning Toni Storm? What's Swerve like when he returns? What does Willow do next? Etc.

BTW, Tim and I covered Danielson vs Perry if anyone's interested: http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2024/09/aew-five-fingers-of-death-92-98-part-2.html

[Lawful Metal]

I think I preferred Britt / Mercedes to Shida / Mercedes.

The crowd is ready to crown Takeshita. Don’t blame them. Shit I wanted him to win the G1! I’m guessing he wins the Continental Classic. 4-way was good for what it was but was really only invested in Takeshita.

Really disliked the first two matches having the exact same finish. The Bucks really need a shock title loss. Outrunners? Their smug act is terrible. The fun part of Succession is that these idiots have no idea what they’re doing, not you know, succeeding.

Statlander’s split bump on the tacks is why you always wear jeans to a street fight!

Jack Perry is awesome. Do we credit the excursion to House of Torture? Did he take acting classes?

Went back to watch the Funk / Flair plastic bag angle and … go figure Funk and Flair did it better. I think the bag being opaque was better, Funk tying it with a rope works, Flair trying to keep the bag open at the bottom works better, and Flair’s flailing and selling on the outside even after Funk let go was better. Hell Sting selling a broken leg trying to save Flair was pretty great too.

 Main event was AEW’s Undertaker / Mankind Hell in a Cell. As a match as a whole maybe not the most cohesive or the selling wasn’t Steamboat-esque, but as a spectacle? A million billion stars. If you don’t think so, listen to that collective shriek from the crowd when Hangman starts walking back to the ring. Oh my goodness.

AEW FOREVER.

 

[The Green Meanie]

23 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

Also I love Waffle House.

I don't trust anyone that doesn't.

[Craig H]

Oh shit…Is Jack Perry the best thing to have actually come out of House of Torture? Low bar, I know, but still…

[StevieNippz]

Anyone have a link to a clip of the crowd reaction to Hangman walking back towards the ring? Apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread. 

[SovietShooter]

12 hours ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

So all those things had mild-to-dire consequences to the business of the promotions that performed these things. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that AEW's going to suffer similar consequences, but it's hard to do something like that and get away clean. 

I didn't even realize it when I quickly made that list, but all of those incidents and the fall out from them happened on regular television... and in some cases were taped (not live broadcasts). 

The difference with AEW in this case, is this was on a PPV - so no one was just stumbling across this flipping channels, perhaps with children in the room.  You had to opt in, and pay money to see this.  And I'm pretty sure, at least in regards to Swerve/Hangman, they really hammered on the "My god, what will these guys do to each other this time?!?!?” aspect. 

So, like, what were folks expecting to happen?  I mean, there were folks in here (myself included) saying "I hope they just have a bloody cage match, and don't go all deathmatch with it", so we all knew this was a possibility. Yeah, everyone has the right to feel it crossed a line to them, no doubt.  But let's not pretend this stuff was out of left field. 

Personally, I don't think TK signed off on any of this stuff if the TV deal isn't signed, sealed, and delivered, FWIW.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

16 minutes ago, SovietShooter said:

Personally, I don't think TK signed off on any of this stuff if the TV deal isn't signed, sealed, and delivered, FWIW.

The TV deal doesn't really matter in this instance, it's the advertisers I'd be worried about. They could have signed the TV deal, but if advertisers see what happened on a PPV and goes "I don't want my product appearing on this show" and pulls out, they better hope their deal is no-cut (and it won't be, every deal has an opt out). The point of linear TV is to sell ads to the viewers. If you don't have advertisers looking to buy time, then you're off the air. And yes, it was on PPV, you can swear that it won't happen on a regular show, but ad buyers rarely care about that kind of distinction. They focus more on a brand than they do on how that brand is aired, and they will say "do I want my brand associated with this one".

Remember what finally forced out Vince McMahon from WWE? It wasn't all the information that came out about him. It was Slim Jim finally saying "enough" and pulling their advertising from the Royal Rumble. Vince got booted and Slim Jim was right back in the fold.

[Lawful Metal]

2 hours ago, StevieNippz said:

Anyone have a link to a clip of the crowd reaction to Hangman walking back towards the ring? Apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/K7nNkcXKzv