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Dynamite - 11/3/2021


Dolfan in NYC
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25 minutes ago, A_K said:

Have said before, will say again: they should have kept the TNT Title on Miro to run a unification storyline. TNT Miro vs World Champ Hangman would have been fireworks: puts the second title over as uber legitimate with a very unpredictable conclusion (either could go over each other), if Hangman wins it underscores transition from sad sack mope to top of the company and you have a 2001 Jericho-esque moment (but Face), if Miro wins you have your 98 Goldberg. That TNT Title looks soft at the moment on Guevara, who shouldn’t have been booked to beat Miro.

 

What's the point of introducing a second singles title if you unify it with the main one two years into its existence?

 

I do agree that having it tied up in the ATT/IC angle is a bad decision. It should be its own focus.

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What I remember about Aerostar other than being a time-traveling rocket man was that he loved to have extreme degree of difficulty in the moves that he does that a) doesn't really add much to the move and b) he can't hit right anyway.  Which is amusing in and of itself, really, and it played out in the match, hilariously, especially after he broke his leg on that guardrail. 

Really rooting for Miro. 

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10 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Lost the Shaq tag. Lost the Revolution ladder match. Pinned by QT Marshall on June 4th. Pinned twice by Malakai Black, once with the foot-on-chest pin to assert dominance. Lost to Andrade. All in 2021 alone.

"Dude needs to stopping winning every match he has."

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

point conceded. 

like i mentioned (at least i think i did), the Black and Andrade matches have gone a long way towards bringing Cody back into the pack (that neverending feud with the Factory felt like an alternate Cody-verse, and the Shaq business was by necessity self-contained). for a while i feel we were dangerously close to LOL CODY WINS, which is 100% the thing that drove me away from WWE. or maybe i'm just reading too much into it.

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41 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

What I remember about Aerostar other than being a time-traveling rocket man was that he loved to have extreme degree of difficulty in the moves that he does that a) doesn't really add much to the move and b) he can't hit right anyway.  Which is amusing in and of itself, really, and it played out in the match, hilariously, especially after he broke his leg on that guardrail. 

Really rooting for Miro. 

He also loves to take every bump like he’s taking a high angle Michinoku Driver.

Remind me of AR Fox who seems to try breaking his neck on every single bump he takes.

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It appears Amanda's real issue is that she never once heard from him while Jon was sick/after he died, and that she felt he wasn't really a friend of Brodie's, but was just name dropping him to get over with the AEW crowd, and then couldn't even spell his name right while doing it.

Edited by Brian Fowler
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6 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

It appears Amanda's real issue is that she never once heard from him while Jon was sick/after he died, and that she felt he wasn't really a friend of Brodie's, but was just name dropping him to get over with the AEW crowd, and then couldn't even spell his name right while doing it.

Someone then brought up Miro and how he spells it Brody instead of Brodie. Apparently Miro called her quite often during all of this, and cried with her on the phone the day Brodie passed away (or around that time). 

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14 hours ago, kafkonia said:

What's the point of introducing a second singles title if you unify it with the main one two years into its existence?

 

I do agree that having it tied up in the ATT/IC angle is a bad decision. It should be its own focus.

It’s a storyline. You either don’t unify it or, if you do unify it, you have plentiful thematic options for one of the belts to be dropped subsequently. That belt is completely meaningless on Guevara at this point in time anyway; nor should Miro have given so much away there. The Bulgarian destroyer act is going to wear thin fast if he continually gets bashed around by waifs like Cassidy & Guevara. Danielson bout is bit of a lose/lose: neither of those guys should be taking a loss in a contender tournament right now (too soon for Dragon after joining; too soon for Miro after already dropping a pin to Sammy).

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9 minutes ago, A_K said:

 The Bulgarian destroyer act is going to wear thin fast if he continually gets bashed around by waifs like Cassidy & Guevara. 

 

Yeah for sure! He's lost all credibility. Is anyone excited for Miro v Danielson? No! Not a single person. What a shame they've blown it with Miro already. 🙄

And how is anyone supposed to take a guy like Sammy seriously as champ? He doesn't look like he's ever taken a steroid. Sure, he's handsome, talented, charismatic... but this is 2021. Nobody cares about anything but size these days. 

Get with the times, Tony Khan!

 

Edited by Gordberg
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22 hours ago, Gordberg said:

 

Yeah for sure! He's lost all credibility. Is anyone excited for Miro v Danielson? No! Not a single person. What a shame they've blown it with Miro already. 🙄

And how is anyone supposed to take a guy like Sammy seriously as champ? He doesn't look like he's ever taken a steroid. Sure, he's handsome, talented, charismatic... but this is 2021. Nobody cares about anything but size these days. 

Get with the times, Tony Khan!

 

?

I guess the answer to your question is .. outside of the core AEW indy base who have been with it since the beginning, he isn't taken seriously, because they've dropped up to 450,000 Dynamite viewers since Dragon's debut at the peak in September & have most recently returned to July numbers despite having added Punk, Danielson & Adam Cole in the interim alongside significant mainstream guest appearances from Masvidal, PVZ, JDS etc.? While Rampage is variably down 20-50% on viewership since its opening episodes.

Its not the only reason of course -- they also fluffed the MJF push with Jericho, have fluffed Cody's storylines, have over-extended the Jurassic Express/Elite stuff, fluffed Lucha Bros as champs with zero defences on Dynamite in 2 months etc. -- but leaning on this as being commercially compelling storytelling probably doesn't chime with a downward rating slope despite all the talent value-adds? But maybe having Miro toil against 180 lbers in striking exchanges, or having your secondary title wrapped up in the Chris Jericho show is the way to go, I don't know 🤷‍♂️

Edited by A_K
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If you put Miro and Sammy Guevara in a line-up and asked a non-wrestling fan to pick "possible mainstream appeal", Miro would not get the nod. And if you're arguing that Danielson and Punk aren't bringing over casual/WWE fans - do you really think RUSEV is going to be the one to turn the tide?

I won't deny there have been missteps, and I think that in retrospect putting the title on Sammy was a mistake because it's tied up in the ATT/IC story now. But I don't think it was the wrong idea in a vacuum, and I think you are drastically overestimating the relative value of Miro vs. Sammy because the former is the bigger guy. Miro's strong suit is and has been dominating people lower on the pecking order, then convincingly showing ass against smaller/faster peers. It's not like he dropped the title to Fuego or Serpentico.

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10 hours ago, kafkonia said:

If you put Miro and Sammy Guevara in a line-up and asked a non-wrestling fan to pick "possible mainstream appeal", Miro would not get the nod. And if you're arguing that Danielson and Punk aren't bringing over casual/WWE fans - do you really think RUSEV is going to be the one to turn the tide?

I won't deny there have been missteps, and I think that in retrospect putting the title on Sammy was a mistake because it's tied up in the ATT/IC story now. But I don't think it was the wrong idea in a vacuum, and I think you are drastically overestimating the relative value of Miro vs. Sammy because the former is the bigger guy. Miro's strong suit is and has been dominating people lower on the pecking order, then convincingly showing ass against smaller/faster peers. It's not like he dropped the title to Fuego or Serpentico.

I like Sammy, always have. They should have cut him out away from the Jericho parody show a year ago. Bizarrely at times they seem to have, because the Inner Circle has 0 structure to its storytelling, but as Pacino would say "just when I thought I was out .. they pull me back in!". Given the momentum they had with Miro however he should not have dropped the title in September, and certainly not to Guevara. Some fans may try to intellectualise the booking ("like, it totally showed that Miro's neck is his kryptonite, and Sammy targetted the neck, so it made perfect storyline sense!), but at the end of the day Miro as the big bad of the company should not have gone down to Sammy. He should not have had such an evenly weighted exchange with Cassidy. Now if he loses to Danielson (and its a big if - because he may yet go over) he's suddenly a pretty neutered character who has dropped several losses in a short period of time and had very close fought victories where he has won. I actually think they have to put Miro over Danielson - but I'm not sure what they do with Danielson then as his portrayal so far has been as ice-cold killer, and a loss at this point outside of any title program does nothing for that.

Danielson & Punk did bring over casual/WWE fans. The 450k they've since lost on Dynamite & 350-500k they've lost on Rampage had to come from somewhere. The question becomes why have they left, and how do they try and get them back again.

Edited by A_K
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6 minutes ago, Matt D said:

They left because of tougher competition from sports and fall TV, right? What does the year to year look like?

Good question:

Dynamite (running against NXT) in October/November 2020: 866k, 753k, 826k, 753k, 781k

Dynamite (running unopposed) in October/November 2021: 1,053k, 727k (Saturday), 575k (Saturday), 941k, 878k

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On 11/4/2021 at 10:03 PM, John from Cincinnati said:

Lost the Shaq tag. Lost the Revolution ladder match. Pinned by QT Marshall on June 4th. Pinned twice by Malakai Black, once with the foot-on-chest pin to assert dominance. Lost to Andrade. All in 2021 alone.

"Dude needs to stopping winning every match he has."

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

Yeah but before that all he did was put over MJF, Brodie Lee and Darby Allin to the point where they could all main event TV.

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3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

If Coach Tony had Miro go over Danielson AND King go over Punk I would completely and totally lose my shit. And reading it, I think it would be the right thing to do as well. 

Miro over Danielson, I agree. Seems too early for Kingston to beat Punk though.

Of course, I'm the guy who's not sure whether it's too early for Page to beat Omega, so take that with a grain of salt.

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Even TK has said they're building up a win streak for CM Punk, and WarnerMedia sees him as a huge centerpiece for AEW and for TNT/TBS, so... sorry, Kingston, I don't think your time in the sun is here yet. Soon, but not yet.

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If there's one guy in professional wrestling who does not have to worry about a loss hurting his credibility, it's Bryan Danielson. Miro should absolutely beat him.

Punk, on the other hand, is always going to need booking to prop up his "Best In The World" claim. And his first loss should be to one of the new pillars, not a guy with as many miles on him as King. 

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41 minutes ago, w. josh said:

If there's one guy in professional wrestling who does not have to worry about a loss hurting his credibility, it's Bryan Danielson. Miro should absolutely beat him.

Punk, on the other hand, is always going to need booking to prop up his "Best In The World" claim. And his first loss should be to one of the new pillars, not a guy with as many miles on him as King. 

A young MJF meets CM Punk: SquaredCircle

Should be on the way to MJF dethroning Hangman, probably. Doesn't seem like Miro is going to be that guy, sadly, as even if he wins the tournament I don't see them having Hangman lose in his first defence. 

Edited by Jiji
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On 11/5/2021 at 8:44 AM, eikerir said:

Remind me of AR Fox who seems to try breaking his neck on every single bump he takes.

One of my favorite bits on older PWG commentary was Kevin Steen announcing, during the build to an AR Fox highspot, "well here's AR Fox about to do something really stupid."

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