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AEW - OCT 2021


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2 hours ago, Casey said:

I feel like Brodie was about to move into a feud with Hangman Page around that time, wasn't he? They were heavily teasing it around the end of July, anyway.

I think that Hangman and Brodie would have feuded, with Silver and Reynolds liking siding with Hangman.

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Just a little fluff piece basically, filmed at Grand Slam. Interviews with Cody, Brandi and Jericho. Bryan Danielson is at the start of the video in a funny little bit, you see Punk talking to Khan, Orange Cassidy, Matt Hardy and Malakai Black going over some stuff with Khan, and a little sit-down circle with Serena Deeb, Tay Conti, Anna Jay, Penelope Ford and Allie/The Bunny.

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I'm going back and filling some gaps. I watched Darby vs Miro and what struck me, as much as anything else, was the use of the German. One big cut off spot in the match is Darby going for the coffin drop on the outside, getting caught, and eating a German from Miro. Then one big spot in the finishing stretch is Miro catching him again but him landing on his feet. Miro killed him in the match, obviously, but the German stood out and it meant so much, both the one that hit and the one that was countered that led to some near-falls and last bits of hope for Darby. Moves should matter. It makes matches so much better than they do. You can do so, so much with one German Suplex if you make it mean something.

Anyway, maybe I hit Britt vs Rosa Unsanctioned sometime today too.

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3 hours ago, Matt D said:

I'm going back and filling some gaps. I watched Darby vs Miro and what struck me, as much as anything else, was the use of the German. One big cut off spot in the match is Darby going for the coffin drop on the outside, getting caught, and eating a German from Miro. Then one big spot in the finishing stretch is Miro catching him again but him landing on his feet. Miro killed him in the match, obviously, but the German stood out and it meant so much, both the one that hit and the one that was countered that led to some near-falls and last bits of hope for Darby. Moves should matter. It makes matches so much better than they do. You can do so, so much with one German Suplex if you make it mean something.

Anyway, maybe I hit Britt vs Rosa Unsanctioned sometime today too.

Cheap plug:

Hope this will be useful, bud.

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56 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Rampage need to be a live show i feel.  it's been a good show but the timeslot is not that great so at least make it live and give off the impression that anything can happen. 

Totally agree. The crowd itself just isn't there after watching a 2 hour packed Dynamite + an hours worth of Elevation before. That's what really helped the Rampage in Chicago with Punk was it being live. Also, I really hope they make the stage something different from Dynamite to give it more of it's own unique feel and atmosphere. I'd wager they're probably still a little ways off from that as I wonder if they even have the infrastructure in place to make that happen (two separate teams to set up the arena, storage for said items, ect). TK could easily buy all that stuff when he needs it - but I could understand him wanting to take his time and make sure he's got the Dynamite rounds down before Rampage.

Also, if they do it live - I'd imagine they have to move it to two hours or shoot Dark: Elevation before that instead of just having fans for a one hour show. If that's the case, I'd like to see Rampage (if possible) move to 7pm and go head to head with SD for an hour. Lots of interesting ways to cut the onion that is known as Rampage in the future.

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5 hours ago, Matt D said:

I'm going back and filling some gaps. I watched Darby vs Miro and what struck me, as much as anything else, was the use of the German. One big cut off spot in the match is Darby going for the coffin drop on the outside, getting caught, and eating a German from Miro. Then one big spot in the finishing stretch is Miro catching him again but him landing on his feet. Miro killed him in the match, obviously, but the German stood out and it meant so much, both the one that hit and the one that was countered that led to some near-falls and last bits of hope for Darby. Moves should matter. It makes matches so much better than they do. You can do so, so much with one German Suplex if you make it mean something.

I could write a thesis about this.  Pro Wrestling is an artform where you can create your own context.  Things literally mean what you make them mean.  One of my biggest issues with modern wrestling is that the workers have made it so they literally have to almost kill each other to make something feel meaningful.  They ignore their ability to create context and try to build matches around in a "realistic" context which is pretty dumb.  We get to the point where a top rope head drop is a 2-count in the name of "realism," but some of the most over moves of all time are things like a stunner, sweet chin music, and a fucking leg drop.  Those moves meant something, because they were protected.  A top rope head drop doesn't really mean anything, because we are all used to seeing them as big spots that get the dramatic 2 count.  

Making a German Suplex feel like a big spot isn't even hard, it's just a matter of selling it like it is a big spot.  One of Darby's biggest attributes is how well he sells big moves.  He's a smaller guy, and he uses his lack of size to make his opponent's offense look extremely impactful.  He also has great, "I'm on the edge of consciousness" facial expressions.  Everyone doesn't have his attributes, but almost everyone can decide to take an extra few seconds to sell a move.  Everyone's instincts seem to be to rush to the next spot, when the right thing to do is often to do the exact opposite.  Wrestling is like jazz, sometimes the notes that mean the most are the ones you don't play.  

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Great post, @supremebveand I can only add one little thing: you mention how head drops for 2-counts are meant to bring realism to wrestling (unlike, say, a Stunner) but in real life that shit should kill or at least permanently injure a human. It's infuriating that they've gone far past realism into what is frankly superhero bullshit. 

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I was reading the bits about Darby above and started thinking of a match between Darby and Gargano. My immediate thought was fuuuuuuuuuck that. My next thought was, damn, Darby is worlds better than Gargano and I like Johnny. For a smaller guy, Darby just does everything better AND Darby makes shit look real as fuck. Sometimes too real because he's probably doing serious damage to himself. Gargano's death selling just feels very fake. Almost soap opera fake.

Johnny Gargano's selling is the Californians of wrestling.

And since I know some folks don't watch:

 

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59 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

Great post, @supremebveand I can only add one little thing: you mention how head drops for 2-counts are meant to bring realism to wrestling (unlike, say, a Stunner) but in real life that shit should kill or at least permanently injure a human. It's infuriating that they've gone far past realism into what is frankly superhero bullshit. 

I was going to question this, but decided I didn't want to nitpick SupremeBVE's post, because I agreed with his main point. But since you specifically highlighted this point, I have to ask: who has ever defended kicking out of death moves because it's realistic? I need to find that person, because they're stupid and I want to mock them.

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50 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

I was going to question this, but decided I didn't want to nitpick SupremeBVE's post, because I agreed with his main point. But since you specifically highlighted this point, I have to ask: who has ever defended kicking out of death moves because it's realistic? I need to find that person, because they're stupid and I want to mock them.

I don't think that was the point of bringing up death moves and kick outs... Think about it this way: we used to think the DDT was a death move, and realistically? Dropping somebody in real life with that could absolutely cause massive harm. Same with a piledriver. Somehow, as the years passed and people kicked out of THOSE moves, other even more dangerous-looking moves were adopted and eventually treated the same way. It's not that anybody is calling, say, a Canadian Destroyer realistic - it's that you seemingly can't actually have realistic ends to matches even with somebody being dropped in a way that would actually leave them hooked up on life support. 

If that doesn't clarify it, or I'm misunderstanding the original point, I apologize.

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As we're all dealing with COVID here, I got to watch this live. It's probably a bit more stream of consciousness because of it:

Dark Elevation 10/11/21:

Ford vs Mimi: I was wondering when Mimi reversed that whip on the outside if Ford was really going to take a bump into the stairs for her. She didn't! But she did kick out the youtube special moonsault press off the stairs. Mimi's high cross wasn't great but I did like her little scoot up roll up out of the corner and she threw a couple of good forearms. Not enough to really tell you much more about her. Ford's Mutalock looked great and the overhead camera shot was cool. It was fun to hear Wight and Kingston without adult supervision.

Santana/Ortiz vs Omen/Soriono: Why do these guys have a manager? Especially one who just looks like another guy. Endless tandem offense with no rhyme or reason or sense of actually being in a tag team match. The first time you see the little double pumphandle flip thing is cool, but to see it again and again in this same exact situation with no rules or creativity in how they get to that point is just noise. You see one Satana/Ortiz squash, you've seen 'em all. And I've seen like... three.

FTR vs Moriarty/LSG: Wardlow needs a jacket of his own. "Dragon twist?" I didn't know we were going to see FTR vs Moriarty so that's exciting. Kingston shooting down Tony mentioning the other sports Lee did was great. Totally speaking my language. Dax figuring quick that he might not be able to outwrestle Moriarty and switching gears successfully only to get stooged anyway was some classic stuff. They get stooged just enough while still controlling when they should. The whole deal with FTR is that they use the classic tricks and structure and formula but give it a modern twist. Wheeler leaping up and getting both legs in there instead of just a knee to the back for the transition is that sort of thing. The hopespot and cut off coming from the ref not buying the trick switch was interesting. It's nice to see it fail once in a while. Whatever else you might say about LSG, that was a good hot tag. Then Moriarty got to really shine with some long-limbed kicks, a nice bevy of "vs the world" spots, and then a good exchange with Dax. Fun stuff.

Conti vs Mo: Exactly what it should have been. Mo looked good taking most of Tay's stuff, especially the flowing arm manipulation early, and she had a couple of nice shots thereafter. She was definitely kayfabe hesitant with the corner rana attempt and boy did it cost her; after that she got absolutely crushed. I'm glad she didn't get a last comeback after the German. Exactly right.

Janela vs Crowbar: Janela sold Crowbar coming down with about a 4 on the "Not Ricky Steamboat?!" scale, which was still appreciated. Good opening exchange. Janela leaned into Crowbar's stuff. Crowbar leaned Janela's stuff. It had to be believable when Janela walked out to set up the big Meanie spot. I love that the Vader Bomb off the guardrail isn't really any more dangerous or effective than one in the ring, but just because of the nature of it, it seemed nastier. Janela momentarily forgetting that he wasn't supposed to be hardcore anymore because he got lost in the Philly moment really worked for me. The faked knee to set up the Franken-Screamer tribute to Daffney from the person who initially took it from her was extremely appreciated. Maybe this went on just a little too long after that. And then they got deep into no man's land when the Northern Lights onto the Chair should have ended it and instead ... well, who knows. That felt like a Janela idea where he just took it one move too far. If they were going for a botchy chaotic ECW feel, I guess they got it at the end there.

Sakura vs Soho: I like to think that the fans popped both for Ruby coming out and because they weren't expecting to get Ruby vs Emi. I popped when I saw it on twitter earlier. Unfortunately, this was one where neither should lose. Both of them got to hit a lot of their big offense though and it all looked really good. Lulu was amazing here with the ineffectual hammers (and Ruby's reaction) and the great facial expression after the corner body press. I don't know about the thing where Ruby does crazy hand motions before starting an offensive flurry. It'd be better if there was something the fans knew they were supposed to do there and she was conducting them? They definitely want to chant for her. Tony miscalled the Casita this time. Finish was sort of okay since you need finishes out of nowhere sometimes between stars in order to get over that a match can end at any point. I think this would have been better if Emi got out there and refused to take the match and threw Lulu to the wolves, but at least Ruby looked like a star and Emi will still be dangerous tomorrow.

Hardy Family vs Johnson/Anderson/Best Friends: Statlander not booping Johnson and Anderson was disappointing. Half of the appeal of this one is watching these guys interact. Private Party hyping up Blade, for instance, is what you want out of this. Anderson getting his reps in front of a crowd against a guy like Butcher is always a good thing. That's what I'll say about that match-up. Yuta looked pretty good surviving against everyone. He feels a little like the babyface counterpart to a Garcia, but that might be because I have a vague sense of what he does on weekends, but only a vague one. He's a little big for it maybe, but if Danielson isn't going to do it, he'd be a good guy to steal the Mantopolous bit where he offers someone his hand behind his back and schools him. I feel like he could modernize it like when Private Party was trying to get him and he kept countering. Just do it quickly.

Spoiler

Not the best example but it's the one I have ready:

nRz9kP.gif

Anyway, I wish this had another minute or two of heat on Yuta. You want an 8 man to be sort of crazy, and maybe it went on a little too long, but that played into the finish as Johnson couldn't put them away in time.

 

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I totally forgot about the 8-man because it ended about two minutes before the Dynamite 8-man started. It really struck me watching these live how even the competitive Elevation matches feel like they’re over before they start. 

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I’m an Emi Sakura fan but what were they thinking allowing her to have Ruby beaten so badly, and really early, that she had to lift her on the 2 to allow the match to continue?  So stoopid.  Good thing nobody watches this show.

FTR dark/elevation bouts are a treat.  I dig young Lee.  LSG looked good too.  Other than the silly missed dive and sell like he hit it.  Also, enough of these lame acronym wrestler names.  You should at least have to earn the distinction of an acronym.  Random job guy doesn’t cut it.  

Crowbar looked good until that messy finish.  Kayla Rossi’s flip was a bit of insanity.  Is she a Jersey indie worker?

Ugh, really awkward having a Crowbar-Meanie shitty shoot promo. The ‘shoot’ portion was completely unnecessary. 

I sometimes regret taking the time to watch this hit and miss show, but glad to have seen that FTR bout.  Loving that entrance music.

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Very sad that Ruby won so infrequently in WWE that nobody seems to recognize the Riot Kick//No Future is her finish. Lots of work to do to get that over as a flash KO.

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The contrasting approach that Santana & Ortiz, and FTR take to their squash matches is quite bizarre. How S&O just eat people alive and give them nothing, whilst FTR give the enhancement talent everything. Bump and sell, stooge for them, have to cheat to get on offense even.

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

The contrasting approach that Santana & Ortiz, and FTR take to their squash matches is quite bizarre. How S&O just eat people alive and give them nothing, whilst FTR give the enhancement talent everything. Bump and sell, stooge for them, have to cheat to get on offense even.

I don't think its all that strange. Santana & Ortiz should be ruthless ass kickers especially as babyfaces akin to The Road Warriors or The Steiner Brothers and a lot less like the Rock 'n' Roll Express. FTR on the other hand seem to a paradigm where they try to have better matches on these Youtube shows where they likely have the ability to play around with the standard tag formula. This can happen more on the internet than it can on the television shows where their heat often gets eaten by commercial breaks. 

I wanted to touch on @Matt D's commentary regarding S&O's squash matches. Watching this week, it seemed to me as though they had deviated from their previous structure which if anything was even more convoluted and required even more movement based tag work. I actually appreciated that they seemed more direct here than I've seen them in the past. I would agree the flippy finisher is a bit underwhelming or odd or whatever you would want to call it. S&O are one of those teams where they've never locked into a finisher for whatever reason with at least four of them being in play. I don't think any of them really have gotten over other than the street sweeper which is the one they probably use the least. If I were them, I would focus on their DVD/DDT combination.

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