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3 hours ago, Craig H said:

I'd enjoy seeing big Will Hobbs get elevated by a feud with Jericho. Not right now because Jericho just can't keep putting one person after another over, but build up both and setup some type of confrontation between them.

Also, I literally had no idea who Will Hobbs was until I saw him on a random Dark awhile ago and thought he moved extremely well for a guy that big and that I've never heard of.

Couldn’t a feud with Cage over the FTW belt elevate him too? Taz seemed to be kind of hinting at that Saturday during All Out.

Plus at some point they need to use guys other than Jericho to elevate people. The roster is deep enough for that. 

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Let's take a deeper look at that, and the card from Dynamite last night:

Spoiler

 

Jurassic Express vs Lucha Bros: only Luchasaurus is "ex-WWE", and even that is a flimsy argument. Kingston, Jungle Boy, Marko Stunt, Pentagon Jr, Rey Fenix, Butcher & Blade all have never had runs in WWE.

Lance Archer & Jake Roberts promo: Jake is definitely a former WWE guy, but I'd be hard pressed to define Archer as one, even though he had a small run there. But sure, okay - let's do it.

Matt Hardy promo - That's #3.

Angelico vs Orange Cassidy - nope.

Best Friends/Santana & Ortiz promo - Trent had a small run in WWE, much like Lance Archer.

Young Bucks segment - definitely nope, unless you're counting one of them having a jobber squash match on Velocity or some shit WAY back in the day.

Kip/Penelope/Miro - This is probably what made that Twitter guy lose his mind. But the other two had nothing to do with WWE, ever.

Adam Page interview - nope.

Jericho/Hager vs Kiss/Janela - The first two are notable ex-WWE talent, like Miro. The other two? Nah.

MJF promo - nope, and same goes for Wardlow.

Jon Moxley promo - obviously.

Tully/FTR promo - Tully, like Jake, is ex-WWE, but BARELY. Unless you consider WCW to be WWE now, I wouldn't even count him. FTR, obviously. Let's look at the tag teams around the ring. Luther? Serpentico? Nope. Daniels/Kazarian? Frankie had a run like much of the other guys mentioned, like Trent or Archer. Private Party? No. We've been through Jurassic Express. Gunn Club? Sure, okay, Billy Gunn, but he's barely active, but we'll count him anyway.

Ricky Starks promo - nope. Taz is on commentary, but I'm not counting that (same with Tony & JR).

Tay vs Nyla - I mean, I guess you can count Tay, but again, she's in the same boat as people like Luchasaurus, Trent and Archer. Vickie Guerrero? Sure.

Omega promo - nope.

Brodie vs Dustin - Yeah, count both of them.

 

So our tally is... prominent ex-WWE guys? 7. It goes up if you count people had short runs that barely anyone remembers. The vast overwhelming majority of the show/roster is made up of indie guys and whatnot.

This shit always amuses me, because WWE literally has a brand, NXT, that runs opposite of AEW that MADE THEIR NAME on being a fucking super indie. When it first started, they'd have "home grown" people like Bo Dallas and Enzo/Cass, etc. But now? That's out the window.

Lots of people here already know it, but it'll pain others to hear this, but - Meltzer is right.

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2 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

Complaining that there are ex-WWE wrestlers in AEW is kind of insane when you consider that WWE had a virtual monopoly on televised pro wrestling for decades, but Twitter's gonna Twitter.

That's why I hate seeing "oh, waaaah, another former WWE guy!" Nearly everyone is a former WWE guy at this point. 

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

That's why I hate seeing "oh, waaaah, another former WWE guy!" Nearly everyone is a former WWE guy at this point. 

Especially since WWE made a concerted effort to hire as many people as possible to keep them from other companies. Besides "former WWE guy" refers to everyone from Enzo to the Rock so as far as a descriptor goes it's not exactly precise.

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The other problem I have with it is the implication the WWE's roster has been the problem with the WWE, which to me is just a fundamental misunderstanding I can't get by. Hell even now I think the WWE roster is loaded. It's clearly not the issue.

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Nice to see a contingent of ppl pushing to get passed this passé ‘wwe castoffs’ diss.  And good points all around.  

I’m excited to see new stars like Darby Allin and Sammy emerge, but I’m also very excited to see misused talent get a chance to show their stuff.  

 

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Miro, Brodie Lee, and Cardona also all had periods when they were criminally underused and that helps a lot when jumping companies. We aren't talking about a multiple time world champion who messed up his career due to drugs or being a perv or racist getting a run just because they might bring in more eyes. TNA sometimes seemed like enablers.

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36 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Miro, Brodie Lee, and Cardona also all had periods when they were criminally underused and that helps a lot when jumping companies. We aren't talking about a multiple time world champion who messed up his career due to drugs or being a perv or racist getting a run just because they might bring in more eyes. TNA sometimes seemed like enablers.

exactly. there's a fine line between AEW giving us a new reason to care about an old WWE castoff (which, again, most people are going to be after WWE being a virtual monopoly for all these years) vs. expecting us to care simply because they're an old WWE castoff who they can't even call by the name they're hoping you remember.

Also, between guys perceived as having untapped upside like Miro vs. shitting themselves with glee over picking up who is perceived as already having hit their low ceiling.

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I gave up on TNA very early and never looked back.  Their booking mistakes with the 'castoffs' colors these discussions far too often.  I get the reference, but TNA, from the little i saw, was complete horseshit booking no matter what the alma matter.  I prefer thinking about guys like Al Snow, Candido, etc. showing up in ECW and being correctly utilized.  I also like thinking about guys like Jamie Noble/James Gibson showing up in ROH and going on a killing spree.  

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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People tend to gloss over just how much awful booking TNA had for years because honestly, there was so much it wasn't even worth trying to document at some point. Say what you will about AEW, they are pretty good about keeping storylines coherent and following through on things people are interested in.

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Watching a bunch of goofy stip matches from TNA 05-06 makes me want to watch the tv and ppv in sequential order. Great roster, lively audience, goofy booking, incredible stipulation matches. 

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At least Jon Moxley can work. 

And yeah, bringing in WWE castoffs to TNA wasn't the only problem. It was largely the booking, Vince Russo, Dixie Carter's stupidity, and Jeff Jarrett making TNA his vanity promotion.

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On 9/9/2020 at 2:00 AM, BrianS81177 said:

I can only think of Hobbs and Serpentico. Who are the others?

1. Serpentico
2. Abadon
3. Diamante
4. Ivelisse

5. Will Hobbs

Anna Jay was didn't win till after she signed.

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I remember when Christian had his feud with Cena and was getting over with his "peeps". It seemed like the fans really wanted him to be a top guy so he gets cut off at the knees. So TNA for once did the smart thing by bringing him in and treating him like top guy (similar to TNA bringing in Rhino who was always over even when he was wrestling on Heat). Miro feels like this, a chance for a guy who should be a top guy to be on top. Not just some random WWE cast off

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22 minutes ago, zendragon said:

I remember when Christian had his feud with Cena and was getting over with his "peeps". It seemed like the fans really wanted him to be a top guy so he gets cut off at the knees. So TNA for once did the smart thing by bringing him in and treating him like top guy (similar to TNA bringing in Rhino who was always over even when he was wrestling on Heat). Miro feels like this, a chance for a guy who should be a top guy to be on top. Not just some random WWE cast off

Agreed. As someone who really began to drift away after 4-5 years without WCW at the time, it was sort of exciting with that first wave of Rhino/Christian/Angle/Dudleyz/Booker. Past that, where you get into the Hogans and Flairs of the world and the RVDs getting the world belt on the debut, that's I think more the territory that people refer to when they do the comparison.

 

 

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Speaking of TNA  Impact is finding itself in a similar spot where they're bringing in former WWE guys.  They brought in Gallows/Anderson, EC3, Bryan Myers, Heath, and Eric Young.  Of the five acts Myers challenged for the title but that was due to an open challenge situation.  Now he's in a nice midcard spot.  And EY challenged and won though with the direction they were going in it makes sense.  Plus he's much more of a former TNA guy than former WWE guy.  The others are in spots where they're featured well enough but they're not taking away from who should be challenging for the titles.  And the closest to griping about WWE is EC3 though he has a general story arc of how his unhappiness in TNA affected him when he left and he's now righting a wrong.  So that to me is definitely not WWE bashing.  So compared to TNA Impact is doing very well with who they bring in and ensuring they don't have that WWE stink on them.

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I know I'm gonna sound like an Impact defender but their production has been pretty good.  Nothing too mind-blowing but certainly not TNA-level bad either.  And I think they're the only empty arena show where the acoustics sound good enough to not be a distraction.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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Impact would be better served with a more traditional almost rustic look.  Simple and non-wwe.  The attempt at looking like a WWE production makes them look fourth rate.  Further, Scott D’amore has always booked like he’s looking for work in Connecticut, and that’s an even bigger problem than the production.  I felt sorta interested in what they were up to with the influx of talent, but they failed to keep my interest with their hokey booking.  Wrestlehouse anyone?  Sing together now ‘How low can ya go’?

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