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AEW Double or Nothing - 5/25/2019

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Yeah, seems way to early for a promotion to do complex work/shoot angles when their strength is suppose to be no BS great in-ring action.

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Agreed. There is no good that comes from this directly. If they can get in a big name replacement like Moxley, then fine. But this is still anus.

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Hard to deliver on a match when someone gets cold feet one week before the fucking show.

If what happened was DG or Pac not wanting the drop a clean loss and if this popped up a few weeks ago, then it would be crazy not to try to negotiate or find some sort of middle ground with either of them to make the match happen since it's been booked for months now. You can only negotiate for so long until it's clear it's not going to happen at this time. Given that, I don't see how it's AEW's fuckup.

And if it's a Visa issue, then I still don't see how it's AEW's fuckup unless they had Pac file for a work Visa within the last couple weeks. That's really the only scenario I could see you placing blame on the company is if they waited too long to file.

Also, what is this work/shoot angle shit you guys keep talking about?

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I'd rather this be a legit situation of PAC and the AEW brass coming to a creative stalemate then any kind of work. I don't care what the god damn company is(AEW, WWE, NJPW, wherever) I don't want to see any no jobbing/this is all fake/we're shooting now, bro bullshit. Wrestling needs to leave that and authority figures in the 90s where they belong.

Now if it is legit, it makes everyone involved look really bad that the week of the damn show we are just now getting around to this.  And I don't want AEW to look bad out of the gate. Whether you like Cody, The Bucks, et all, we all need to be wanting this thing to succeed. There needs to be a major alternative and there needs to be one now or else we are stuck in the darkest timeline of wild cards and Saudi Arabia and Baron Corbin.

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I don't understand what grand creative difference there could be. It's not the main event of the show. After a hot, hard fought match between Page and PAC have it end in a shmoz with either a new guy or a new tag team/faction causing a dq, leaving plenty of rematches / bad blood / storyline for the future without either match contestant eating a pin. Fuck...they should hire me lol.

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There's a reason why every pro Wrestling show is Card Subject to Change.

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Page is vital to AEW's long-term success.  He's their future ace when Kenny gets too old, and Kenny's already 37.   In 4 years he'll be Tana's age and probably almost as broken down.  The Khan's don't want a 3-4 year vanity promotion, they want something that can last.

AEW's initial survival is going to depend on Kenny, but long-term they're going to have to build new talent, and Page is that talent.  PAC isn't going to move the needle much long term, despite being awesome.  That doesn't mean Page can't take losses, but they have to build him and smartly, as well as other young stars.

 

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Posted (edited)

Kenny's 35 and has had considerable amounts of time off in between matches to recuperate and rehabilitate injuries. I see no reason other than him wanting to do his own vanity projects in the gaming industry why he wouldn't be the ace for another decade. And given AEW's current schedule, he gets plenty of time to do both now anyway.

Jericho is 48.

Page can take a L here and be fine. I honestly don't see Page as a top guy, he's years away. Trigger too early and you have a Jay White situation on your hands.

Edited by Rick

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2 hours ago, alstein said:

Page is vital to AEW's long-term success.  He's their future ace when Kenny gets too old, and Kenny's already 37.   In 4 years he'll be Tana's age and probably almost as broken down.  The Khan's don't want a 3-4 year vanity promotion, they want something that can last.

AEW's initial survival is going to depend on Kenny, but long-term they're going to have to build new talent, and Page is that talent.  PAC isn't going to move the needle much long term, despite being awesome.  That doesn't mean Page can't take losses, but they have to build him and smartly, as well as other young stars.

 

I agree. Page is AEW’s future star. The guy is incredibly talented and connects with the fans on a level you don’t see that often. But Page shouldn’t be pushed so quickly. He definitely can take losses and should have taken the loss vs PAC.

I don’t think this can be about 1 match. It’s either a work or PAC has told AEW he can’t take any losses for 2019 because of his position in his promotion.

 

 

 

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Page/PAC being off really sucks. It's the match I was most looking forward to and getting it for free with a shit finish in a another promotion is not a good replacement, sorry, so the mystery opponent better be a good one. I'm thinking this isn't a work because, as others have said, if it is it's a pretty bad one to kick off your promotion with. I think it's a young promotion with inexperienced hands on the wheel learning as they go. They know this looks bad as much as anyone, they won't make that mistake twice (let's hope). I'm still planning to check it out but make no mistake, a high price tag and not delivering one of your top matches is a rough start.

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Ok, I just listened to Dave Meltzer’s Wrestling Observer and it explains what happened.

AEW did not have a problem with PAC going over Page at DON. But it didn’t have PAC winning all his matches short term and PAC couldn’t agree to this booking while he was champion of another promotion.

Thank goodness AEW was willing to have Page lose at DON...this comforts me a little bit. But AEW dropped the ball on this one because they should not have had PAC involved in AEW’s first PPV if PAC wasn’t “all in” on the AEW promotion.

There are going to be many ups and downs for AEW. This was one big down going into their first PPV. Hopefully they can give us something big with Page which makes us somewhat forget about this promotional botch right out of the gate.

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41 minutes ago, Flair’s Shadow said:

Ok, I just listened to Dave Meltzer’s Wrestling Observer and it explains what happened.

AEW did not have a problem with PAC going over Page at DON. But it didn’t have PAC winning all his matches short term and PAC couldn’t agree to this booking while he was champion of another promotion.

Thank goodness AEW was willing to have Page lose at DON...this comforts me a little bit. But AEW dropped the ball on this one because they should not have had PAC involved in AEW’s first PPV if PAC wasn’t “all in” on the AEW promotion.

There are going to be many ups and downs for AEW. This was one big down going into their first PPV. Hopefully they can give us something big with Page which makes us somewhat forget about this promotional botch right out of the gate.

This still isn't AEW dropping the ball. Again, you can't blame the promotion when the individual signs and then afterwards doesn't want to do business. 

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More over, it makes Pac look bad if this is the case. The majority of the audience for AEW isn't going to give two shits about DG. It would be like the majority of WWE fans caring about, like, Noah or something. Pac thinks the DG title is this grand thing though where he shouldn't job. Part of wrestling is knowing you're going to have to put people over along the way. He shouldn't have signed if he wasn't going to be comfortable doing that. He could have just stayed within the comforts of DG where he'd never lose.

This is also the second time where Pac has taken his ball and gone home because of booking while he's champion. Not a great look...

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Just now, Craig H said:

More over, it makes Pac look bad if this is the case. The majority of the audience for AEW isn't going to give two shits about DG. It would be like the majority of WWE fans caring about, like, Noah or something. Pac thinks the DG title is this grand thing though where he shouldn't job. Part of wrestling is knowing you're going to have to put people over along the way. He shouldn't have signed if he wasn't going to be comfortable doing that. He could have just stayed within the comforts of DG where he'd never lose.

This is also the second time where Pac has taken his ball and gone home because of booking while he's champion. Not a great look...

But PAC has not signed a contract with AEW.

This is the point. AEW put a heavy investment  into a character for their 1st PPV in an important slot and the character has not signed with AEW...does not have an AEW contract.

I agree this is not a good look for PAC, which is why I thought this was a work. But it’s not a good look for AEW as well.

Again, hopefully, AEW can create a positive narrative/storyline out of all of this and not get hurt too much.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Craig H said:

More over, it makes Pac look bad if this is the case. The majority of the audience for AEW isn't going to give two shits about DG. It would be like the majority of WWE fans caring about, like, Noah or something. Pac thinks the DG title is this grand thing though where he shouldn't job. Part of wrestling is knowing you're going to have to put people over along the way. He shouldn't have signed if he wasn't going to be comfortable doing that. He could have just stayed within the comforts of DG where he'd never lose.

This is also the second time where Pac has taken his ball and gone home because of booking while he's champion. Not a great look...

Yes, because Cody, Kenny, or The Bucks have always done jobs when holding promotion's top belts in other companies...

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif

 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Yes, because Cody, Kenny, or The Bucks have always done jobs when holding promotion's top belts in other companies...

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/qmfpjpAT2fJRK/giphy.gif

 

You just really dislike these guys for whatever reason. 

You mean like when Cody was RoH champ and dropped loses to Okada, Flip, and took the loss in multiple tag matches? Or when Cody was NWA champ and lost to Omega? Or when Cody was NJPW US champ and lost to Jay Legal?

You bringing up Omega is pretty dumb considering that until recently he almost solely worked NJPW, he was top champ in that company for a short while, and being top champ in NJPW is a little different than being that top champ in DG, which operates in the same country...

Do I need to even point out the jobs the Young Bucks did while they were RoH tag champs? Like how they lost multiple times in PWG, IWS, or NJPW?

Insert your gif here.

Edited by Craig H
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8 minutes ago, Craig H said:

You just really dislike these guys for whatever reason. 

You mean like when Cody was RoH champ and dropped loses to Okada, Flip, and took the loss in multiple tag matches? Or when Cody was NWA champ and lost to Omega? Or when Cody was NJPW US champ and lost to Jay Legal?

You bringing up Omega is pretty dumb considering that until recently he almost solely worked NJPW, he was top champ in that company for a short while, and being top champ in NJPW is a little different than being that top champ in DG, which operates in the same country...

Do I need to even point out the jobs the Young Bucks did while they were RoH tag champs? Like how they lost multiple times in PWG, IWS, or NJPW?

Insert your gif here.

Cody in RoH dropped falls to IWGP Champ Okada, IWGP Champ Omega, both of whom are higher than RoH.  US Champ wasn't the top belt.  The loss to Flip was for the NEW belt.  Outside of that, he didn't drop singles falls, especially to non-champs.

Omega didn't drop falls as IWGP Champ because yeah, he was IWGP Champ.  

Basically, they were going to use PAC, and by proxy his Brave Gate belt, which is DG's top belt, to get their guy over in the long run at PAC's expense.  Of course PAC and/or DG are going to balk at that.  That's an asinine thought to use someone not signed at all.

 

I get that people are thirsty for something big and worship the EVP's and all that, but the mental gymnastics to put this all on PAC and absolve The Elite of all blame is ridiculous. They fucked up, plain and simple.  They ignored Indy Booking 101.

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4 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Cody in RoH dropped falls to IWGP Champ Okada, IWGP Champ Omega, both of whom are higher than RoH.  US Champ wasn't the top belt.  The loss to Flip was for the NEW belt.  Outside of that, he didn't drop singles falls, especially to non-champs.

Omega didn't drop falls as IWGP Champ because yeah, he was IWGP Champ.  

Basically, they were going to use PAC, and by proxy his Brave Gate belt, which is DG's top belt, to get their guy over in the long run at PAC's expense.  Of course PAC and/or DG are going to balk at that.  That's an asinine thought to use someone not signed at all.

 

I get that people are thirsty for something big and worship the EVP's and all that, but the mental gymnastics to put this all on PAC and absolve The Elite of all blame is ridiculous. They fucked up, plain and simple.  They ignored Indy Booking 101.

Your exact sarcastic words were that they never did jobs while holding a company's top belts and now you want to move the goal posts.

If you follow the reporting, they were going to have Pac go over Page or didn't have a problem with that, but the stumbling block became dropping future losses, which wouldn't even be until September. Again, few in this country give a crap about DG's top belt so exact how is that going to help put someone over in a big American company, not to mention when it might not even be done until 4 more months from now?

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9 minutes ago, Raziel said:

Cody in RoH dropped falls to IWGP Champ Okada, IWGP Champ Omega, both of whom are higher than RoH.  US Champ wasn't the top belt.  The loss to Flip was for the NEW belt.  Outside of that, he didn't drop singles falls, especially to non-champs.

Omega didn't drop falls as IWGP Champ because yeah, he was IWGP Champ.  

Basically, they were going to use PAC, and by proxy his Brave Gate belt, which is DG's top belt, to get their guy over in the long run at PAC's expense.  Of course PAC and/or DG are going to balk at that.  That's an asinine thought to use someone not signed at all.

 

I get that people are thirsty for something big and worship the EVP's and all that, but the mental gymnastics to put this all on PAC and absolve The Elite of all blame is ridiculous. They fucked up, plain and simple.  They ignored Indy Booking 101.

I agree.

However the seriousness of this mistake by AEW is being blown up.

This should only be a bump on the road, not a canary in the coal mine type of event.

But we shall see.

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1 hour ago, Craig H said:

This still isn't AEW dropping the ball. Again, you can't blame the promotion when the individual signs and then afterwards doesn't want to do business. 

 

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

More over, it makes Pac look bad if this is the case. The majority of the audience for AEW isn't going to give two shits about DG. It would be like the majority of WWE fans caring about, like, Noah or something. Pac thinks the DG title is this grand thing though where he shouldn't job. Part of wrestling is knowing you're going to have to put people over along the way. He shouldn't have signed if he wasn't going to be comfortable doing that. He could have just stayed within the comforts of DG where he'd never lose.

This is also the second time where Pac has taken his ball and gone home because of booking while he's champion. Not a great look...

PAC isn't signed, and they should have known how he was getting booked well before booking this match. It was a fuck up on their part, but one that won't really hurt them much and that they can easily move on from. Its fine that you want to support AEW, but they aren't infallible. 

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Oh, I know they aren't infallible. If they're guilty of anything it's maybe having a very idealistic view of what the wrestling business could be where everyone would be willing to do business for the greater good and they could not lock their whole roster down with vice grips. I guess this serves as a wake up call that the wrestling business is still the wrestling business and you can think you're building the most idealistic company ever, like this Utopia for wrestling, but ultimately, 100% of the workers need to be on board and Pac is the 1% who isn't. I'm guilty of it too thinking that there's no reason to be that prideful in 2019, but feelings are feelings and if Pac feels like he shouldn't lose because he's the champion in a much smaller company then I can only say I wish this came up much sooner.

It's still not out of the question that Pac might be a tad difficult to work with though.

But anyway, I agree with you, this isn't that big of a deal and if they find a suitable replacement then ultimately no one is going to care.

I still think the smart move is to bring in Moxley especially since the show is in his hometown.

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Dave was regurgitating the company line that the show will now be better without this match. They are building themselves up for failure with that kind of talk unless they have something considerable like Moxley waiting in the wings.

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I find it really hard to say AEW is blameless when they knew full well they were dealing with a wrestler who already had a shady past of walking out on promotions when he didn’t get his way in booking on top of the fact he wasn’t actually signed with them in the first place and subject to the whims of another promotion’s booking. All that and they waited until the very last minute to cancel the match after promoting it prominently for months.

I guess the torch really has been passed. 

LOLAEW

Doesn't have quite the same ring as LOLTNA but it will do.

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Due to creative differences, they aren’t doing the match, except that they did the match and are giving it away for free since they promised the match and didn’t want to let fans down? 

 

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Posted (edited)

With no track record, it’s easy to assign AEW all or none of the blame as you see fit to reinforce your preferred narrative. Choose your own adventure! 

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy
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