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[1st Rd] SAMOA JOE vs. KATSUYORI SHIBATA

SAMOA JOE vs. KATSUYORI SHIBATA  

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  1. 1. Choose One



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...you bastard, rippa.

Two of my favourites this year...

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Fuuuuuck.

I don't know who to pick.

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Yeah, I feel like this match should be generating a lot more discussion.

I haven't rewatched it recently, but I remember LOVING the 2/3 falls match with Sami, even though it didn't seem that over with Full Sail crowd and didn't generate a ton of praise online.  Joe put on a striking clinic in that match.  I also loved Joe's performance in the blood match with Balor in Dallas, even if the match itself was pretty average otherwise.

If there's a knock in Joe's year, it's that, for whatever reason, he never really got a strong run of TV matches outside the Takeovers while he was champ.  Like, as soon as he'd get the belt, he'd immediately go to the sidelines, and while he did a lot of fun brawls and run-ins outside the ring, there are large swaths of the year where he just wasn't putting matches on tape.

On the other hand, Shibata has a TON of work to show, but while his highs are very high, when you see him work the same shtick (no-selling and legit beating the shit out of people) in, like, his B- undercard match, it kinda dilutes the highs a bit for me.  If that makes any sense.

He does score a lot of points with me for getting something watchable out of Will Ospreay, though.

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The balls-out Shibata/Nagata/Tenzan/Nakanishi vs Kitamiya/Shiozaki/Maybach/Nakajima tag from the G1 Climax is worth a watch as long as you don't have a) previous concussions, b) PTSD.

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Voted for Shibata, but it's close, and I could talk myself in to a different conclusion every hour or so. Admittedly I think it came down to expectations, like voting a guy coach of the year just because he finished 3rd in the conference and not 9th.

I've never enjoyed Shibata as much as this year; working all over and with a ton of different opponents helped keep his act fresh. I do think he was generous enough when appropriate. Just recently, he sold being KO'd by Will Ospreay, and put over Goto as clean as can be.

Joe, on the other hand, has had far better years. I really expected something MOTY caliber from him and Nakamura also, and felt they never really produced at that level. Still, very good work in big matches, as you'd expect. Maybe I just took it for granted.

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Yeah I think the issue with Joe this year is quantity more than anything else. I'd imagine next year (if there IS a next year) he'll hopefully have the body of work to defend a deep run in the tournament, because he's really been on a tear considering he's pushing 40 and spent so, so long in purgatory.

I'd also say that the Goto - Shibata match on its own is better than any of Joe's stuff in the voting period.

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That is a good point about Joe and Nakamura disappointing.  The Brooklyn match I can excuse because it was worked like they knew they were going to be running this back at least 2 more times, so they played it safe for Nak's big win.  I actually really liked the stretch run in Toronto and thought they would tear the roof off in the rubber match.  But then the matches in Australia and Japan were just kinda there.

Taking into account that half the year was Joe not wrestling much and having disappointing matches with Nak probably is the deciding factor here.  His beginning and end of the period were strong as fuck, though.

I actually didn't like Shibata/Goto at WK too much, but that's mostly due to my problems with Goto than Shibata.

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The Nak/Joe series was definitely less than it could have been, and I'm saying that as someone who hold both men in his Top 10 and saw the Toronto math live. But that 2/3 falls match with Zayn is so, so good. And the demolition of Seth Rollins was the feel good moment of the year WWE never intended. Joe has been a dominant presence all year. BUT Shibata has him beat in terms of matches, even if they do scare the shit out of me sometimes.

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Shibata had the better year by a mile. More variety, more quality, and he's better at the one thing Joe is supposed to be good at and that's portraying a bad ass.

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8 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

Shibata had the better year by a mile. More variety, more quality, and he's better at the one thing Joe is supposed to be good at and that's portraying a bad ass.

Yeah, but Joe does it without legit beating the shit out of his opponents, which is kind of the point of pro wrestling.  

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Just now, mattdangerously said:

Yeah, but Joe does it without legit beating the shit out of his opponents, which is kind of the point of pro wrestling.  

I didn't feel like he was crazy stiff with Hero or ZSJ in Rev Pro, though. He really lays it in with people who are open to it. Plus Joe has two serious injuries on his WWE record already.

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Neither of those injuries were his fault.  Seth was a freak accident, and Tyson had a bum neck already.

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Going for Samoa Joe, the Balor match at NXT TakeOver: Dallas is one of Finn's best matches in WWE. I really enjoyed Joe vs. Reigns on RAW. Joe vs. Nakamura series disappointed.

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I've seen a lot of Shibata and little of Joe this year, so went with him Shibata. I've barely seen Joe at all since 2008.

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Shibata is good enough at cool-looking offense that with the right opponents he'll have matches I think are very good, but he's as emblematic of the two guys just hitting each other as hard as possible and not trying to defend themselves stuff that's one of my least favorite things in the wrestling world, so I will definitely not be voting for him.

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With Shibata, a little goes a long way. A lot is too much. I wanted more Joe matches out of the period, not less.

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On 3/2/2017 at 10:37 AM, RIPPA said:

Have I told you lately how much I hate you?

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1 hour ago, J.T. said:

Have I told you lately how much I hate you?

We already lost one thread to Phil Collins, don't fuck this up with your Rod Stewart references!!

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On 3/3/2017 at 11:30 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Looks like a lot of folks didn't watch Shibata this year.

I watched Shibata and that's why I voted Joe.  It's not that he hasn't had really good matches, because he he certainly has.  But as much as I want to like the guy I can't support somebody who thinks beating the shit of people for real makes for a great match.  It might not be all the time, but it's enough to have a reputation based off of that.  And with how I look at wrestling the last thing I want to see if stuff like that.

Joe hasn't had his best year due to lack of matches.  But even if he loses in the next round I'll vote for him anyday over Shibata.

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24 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I watched Shibata and that's why I voted Joe.  It's not that he hasn't had really good matches, because he he certainly has.  But as much as I want to like the guy I can't support somebody who thinks beating the shit of people for real makes for a great match.  It might not be all the time, but it's enough to have a reputation based off of that.  And with how I look at wrestling the last thing I want to see if stuff like that.

Joe hasn't had his best year due to lack of matches.  But even if he loses in the next round I'll vote for him anyday over Shibata.

For me I prefer someone who lays it in rather than someone who is making everything look fake as hell.  That doesn't apply here because Joe is awesome but it does apply to some WWE workers who I just can't stomach because every move or strike they throw looks like ass.

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As long as you don't lump Joe into that then I definitely get what you're saying.  I'm cool with being "snug" where there might be a tad bit of damage but nothing horrendous.  But knowing what we know now seeing Shibata headbutt so hard he bleeds is not my ideal type of match.

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