Wrestling What Ifs

[odessasteps 12,675]

54 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Gary Hart Presents...

More like the latest members of Paul Jones Army to feud with Jimmy Valiant. 

Valiant's Beard vs Neidhart's Beard at Starrcade 

[gatling 340]

1 hour ago, Happ Hazzard said:

If the Midnights are in the WWF in 1987 and Dennis bails, who replaces him?

Greg Valentine?  He and Beefcake split at WM 3, around the same time Condrey left.  Valentine didn't like teaming with Bravo, maybe he'd have been more comfortable teaming with Bobby?

[Log 997]

14 minutes ago, gatling said:

Greg Valentine?  He and Beefcake split at WM 3, around the same time Condrey left.  Valentine didn't like teaming with Bravo, maybe he'd have been more comfortable teaming with Bobby?

I have a love/hate with this thread. On the one hand, it’s fun to think about things like this. On the other hand, I’m sad now because I’ll never see a Valentine/Eaton team.

[Hamhock 448]

The Hart Foundation only happened because Bret didn’t want to be “Cowboy” Bret Hart, correct? In the NWA, that doesn’t happen, and maybe he just stays a single and gets Windham’s original spot with Dusty after Windham jumps in late 1984, instead of Magnum getting it?

[Wyld Samurai 2,144]

51 minutes ago, Log said:

I have a love/hate with this thread. On the one hand, it’s fun to think about things like this. On the other hand, I’m sad now because I’ll never see a Valentine/Eaton team.

Silent But Deadly?

[odessasteps 12,675]

43 minutes ago, Hamhock said:

The Hart Foundation only happened because Bret didn’t want to be “Cowboy” Bret Hart, correct? In the NWA, that doesn’t happen, and maybe he just stays a single and gets Windham’s original spot with Dusty after Windham jumps in late 1984, instead of Magnum getting it?

Given that Magnum was already an upper mid carder at the time, that might be projecting 1984 Hart too high. And Dusty would have made him wear a cowboy hat too, prob. 

[Mister TV 288]

13 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Given that Magnum was already an upper mid carder at the time, that might be projecting 1984 Hart too high. And Dusty would have made him wear a cowboy hat too, prob. 

Yeah, Magnum had that big run in Mid-South which Dusty was familiar with while Bret was headlining in Western Canada for a promotion his family owned. Bret would have been a lower card up and coming babyface with more wins but still kind of stagnate just like he was in WWF pre-Hart Foundation, maybe he works his way up the card to where he's at TV or US title level by 1987. Also Bret would never gotten that women want him/men want to be him vibe with the southern fans like Mags did. Neidhart as a single in JCP is totally in the Paul Jones Army and most likely moving on after he's asked to loose the goatee to the Boogie Man.

I think the Bulldogs starting off as faces but making a heel turn would have worked in JCP, they would have needed a team who could bump for them and get sympathy which the Rock n Roll Express were perfect at. The Bulldogs vs. Road Warriors seems like it would have just ended up with Dynamite and Hawk no selling each other and becoming a border line fist fight.

If the Midnight's went to the WWF they end up in the same slot The Hart Foundation were in and would have needed whoever was dropping the tag belts to want to drop it to them and not Sheik and Volkoff. Midnights vs. Strike Force a few years later would have been sweet.

I don't see the Rock n Roll really clicking in the WWF.

[Wyld Samurai 2,144]

I dont see Bret doing much if anything in the NWA as a singles act. He would have been a Sam Houston level act.

[Happ Hazzard 413]

I think the Rock 'n Rolls get over in the WWF.  There really hadn't been a team like that there before, small guys who could get sympathy, do quick tags and flashy maneuvers to overwhelm their larger opponents. Stick them with Captain Lou at first, have Ozzy Osbourne come out with them at WM2, with them winning the belts over Valentine and Beefcake, then move them onto feud with the Midnights throughout 1986 and 1987, assuming neither Ricky or Robert goes down with injuries like  Dynamite did you could get a second title run out of them in place of Strike Force before having them job to Demolition at WM4, then move them down the card and have them work with the likes of the Rougeaus and Tully & Arn.

[clintthecrippler 1,657]

5 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I dont see Bret doing much if anything in the NWA as a singles act. He would have been a Sam Houston level act.

This was pretty much what I was thinking up to this point in the thread. If Bret and Anvil go to Crockett in 85 and are kept separate like they were initially in WWF, Bret is a credible babyface that might get a Mid-Atlantic or Junior Heavyweight Title run but that's his ceiling during that time period. I could maybe see if him and Anvil get teamed up down the road they would have a similar run to Rude/Fernandez first half of 87, but that's about it.

The Bulldogs I see more as heels in Crockett, though some of that admittedly may be my desire for how brutal their Techwood squashes against hapless jobbers would be, as well as the idea that potentially we could have had Bulldogs vs Wahoo and Ron Garvin as the midcard tag feud I never knew I wanted until I just typed this. 

I think the Rock and Rolls would have adapted better to 80s WWF than the Midnights. I agree with the one poster earlier that said they could slot into the Bulldogs spot as a near-analogue, as RnR vs Valentine/Beefcake also probably would have been MOTN at Wrestlemania 2, and them vs Volkoff/Sheik, Moondogs, and The Funks in 86, and later on in 87/88 against Demolition and Islanders all would have been great and gotten over. I do think in the end though him being shorter than Bret and being too Southern would have prevented Ricky from getting the IC and World Title pushes that the Hit Man got.

The Midnights I really dont see rising to higher than being a gatekeeper team, them really being a true Southern tag heel formula team I think would have turned Vince off of seeing them as the tag champions, but he could still see they would be good enough to be in the midcard tag division role similar to what the Rougeau Brothers were in 89. I dont think they would be the tag team Champions, but I could see them being the final match of the night to send the crowd home happy on shows where Hogan's title defense is in the middle of the show, or headlining the B-shows. 

But now given the idea of Hart Foundation/Bulldogs going to JCP and RnR/Midnights going to WWF, the other really big ripple effect is that if that happened, how would things go with The Rockers once it was time to leave AWA? You would think that WWF wouldn't be interested in Shawn and Marty if they have Ricky and Robert, so maybe THEY join the Harts and the Bulldogs in JCP, so then we get Rockers vs Bulldogs down south? And Marty and Shawn dont go up north until after Ricky and Robert head elsewhere?

Edited December 3, 2019 by clintthecrippler

[Infinit 2,146]

I think a big factor on Bret's push in JCP/NWA initially would be how good a relationship Stu had with the Crocketts and/or Dusty.

[odessasteps 12,675]

The funny thing is there was already a job guy in JCP named Brett Hart aka Jack Hart aka Barry Horowitz. 

[paintedbynumbers 642]

11 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:

This was pretty much what I was thinking up to this point in the thread. If Bret and Anvil go to Crockett in 85 and are kept separate like they were initially in WWF, Bret is a credible babyface that might get a Mid-Atlantic or Junior Heavyweight Title run but that's his ceiling during that time period. I could maybe see if him and Anvil get teamed up down the road they would have a similar run to Rude/Fernandez first half of 87, but that's about it.

The Bulldogs I see more as heels in Crockett, though some of that admittedly may be my desire for how brutal their Techwood squashes against hapless jobbers would be, as well as the idea that potentially we could have had Bulldogs vs Wahoo and Ron Garvin as the midcard tag feud I never knew I wanted until I just typed this. 

I think the Rock and Rolls would have adapted better to 80s WWF than the Midnights. I agree with the one poster earlier that said they could slot into the Bulldogs spot as a near-analogue, as RnR vs Valentine/Beefcake also probably would have been MOTN at Wrestlemania 2, and them vs Volkoff/Sheik, Moondogs, and The Funks in 86, and later on in 87/88 against Demolition and Islanders all would have been great and gotten over. I do think in the end though him being shorter than Bret and being too Southern would have prevented Ricky from getting the IC and World Title pushes that the Hit Man got.

The Midnights I really dont see rising to higher than being a gatekeeper team, them really being a true Southern tag heel formula team I think would have turned Vince off of seeing them as the tag champions, but he could still see they would be good enough to be in the midcard tag division role similar to what the Rougeau Brothers were in 89. I dont think they would be the tag team Champions, but I could see them being the final match of the night to send the crowd home happy on shows where Hogan's title defense is in the middle of the show, or headlining the B-shows. 

But now given the idea of Hart Foundation/Bulldogs going to JCP and RnR/Midnights going to WWF, the other really big ripple effect is that if that happened, how would things go with The Rockers once it was time to leave AWA? You would think that WWF wouldn't be interested in Shawn and Marty if they have Ricky and Robert, so maybe THEY join the Harts and the Bulldogs in JCP, so then we get Rockers vs Bulldogs down south? And Marty and Shawn dont go up north until after Ricky and Robert head elsewhere?

I think a lot of what the Rockers end up doing depends on how Crocketts/Dusty would have dealt with their backstage partying/attitude.  Although after seeing the behind the scenes at the Bash video damn those guys partied as hard as the Stamford crew.

[alstein 585]

I could see the Rockers ending up in World Class- though I suspect Embry wouldn't like them too much.

 

 

 

[BEN! 1,950]

The Expresses would've been fine in the WWF.  They could work with anybody and they'd probably still get married to each other.  Maybe Cornette would've had to wear a train conductor hat or something because I definitely think the Midnights were getting saddled with something train related.

Jimmy Hart in JCP is where the money's at though.  Dump Paul Jones and put Jimmy Hart in his role.  I don't really think either the Harts or Bulldogs work as teams in JCP.  I could see Neidhart getting over pretty well as a heel and getting turned face.  The Bulldogs might've worked as heels but they'd probably be better off as singles with Davey Boy as a face and Dynamite as a vicious heel.  Bland straight out of Calgary Bret Hart's not getting over in JCP.

[RolandTHTG 2,867]

Yeah, if the Harts go to Crockett, then Stu Hart doesn't agree to work with Vince at that time either.

You probably end up with Stampede continuing as an NWA territory - the guy I really want to come from this is Bad News Allen ending up in Crockett feuding with Dusty.

 

[Hamhock 448]

1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

You probably end up with Stampede continuing as an NWA territory - the guy I really want to come from this is Bad News Allen ending up in Crockett feuding with Dusty.

Bad News likely would have refused to go - during a tour in Japan he felt that Dusty was racist and so refused to do a job to him in a tag match.

Other matches in this alternate-history timeline that would be good: Midnight Express vs. Windham/Rotundo, and Rock-n-Roll vs. Adonis/Murdoch.

[BEN! 1,950]

Train robbers.  Old wild west cowboys.  "Bullseye" Bobby Eaton and "Dead Eye" Dennis Condrey with their parasol-carrying dandy manager Jim Cornette.  This is what I've decided Vince would've made The Midnight Express.

[Phantom Lord 1,549]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:46 PM, Hamhock said:

Bad News likely would have refused to go - during a tour in Japan he felt that Dusty was racist and so refused to do a job to him in a tag match.

Other matches in this alternate-history timeline that would be good: Midnight Express vs. Windham/Rotundo, and Rock-n-Roll vs. Adonis/Murdoch.

Now I wish Adonis went to JCP in 88 when Murdoch was there. They could have had a North/South Connection reunion. Perfect US Tag Title placeholders when the Midnight's weren't tag champions.

As much as I love Bret Hart, even if Stu were working with Crockett I can't see bland babyface Bret ever working in mid 80's NWA. 

[Wyld Samurai 2,144]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:46 PM, Hamhock said:

Bad News likely would have refused to go - during a tour in Japan he felt that Dusty was racist and so refused to do a job to him in a tag match.

Other matches in this alternate-history timeline that would be good: Midnight Express vs. Windham/Rotundo, and Rock-n-Roll vs. Adonis/Murdoch.

Bad News thought everyone was racist. 

Damn... if there was one dude that needed to be in the Nation of Domination...

[BurningBeard 4,280]

Okay, so Bret wouldn't have fared well at all in 80s JCP, but what if he'd decided to pull the trigger on going to WCW in 1992? Would he have just been another British Bulldog who ended up in the main event scene and fizzled out only to return to the WWF?

[RolandTHTG 2,867]

Frey would have signed him to a huge contract, as a regular recipient of the match of the night bonus award.

Watts would have come in and tried to lower it, leading to him being repackaged as Schmozz Hart, Paul Heyman's childhood Jewish cartoonist friend from the Bronx, fast tracking Paul's racial discrimination lawsuit against WCW.

E(Xtreme)CW occurs as it did but with Bret in the Douglas role, including Bret going back to Vince in 1995 as Dean Hart because Vince enjoys making fun of his real life tragedy/dead brother.

[alstein 585]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:46 PM, Hamhock said:

Bad News likely would have refused to go - during a tour in Japan he felt that Dusty was racist and so refused to do a job to him in a tag match.

Other matches in this alternate-history timeline that would be good: Midnight Express vs. Windham/Rotundo, and Rock-n-Roll vs. Adonis/Murdoch.

 

Bad News worked Florida when Dusty was around and booking.  You might get Bad News in J-Tex, or Bad News as a feud for Sting in 90, maybe a post-title feud.

Possibly Bad News vs Cactus Jack at some point?

 

[RolandTHTG 2,867]

Watching the go home show prior to Survivor Series 92.

They really messed up the card in making Brets first defense as champion being maybe the 5th most important guy on the card.

The tag match really overshadowed them and should have been a Survivor Series match.

Either Savage/Perfect/Nasties vs. Flair/Razor/Money Inc or you go all out and throw Bret and Shawn into that one as well. 

[Brian Fowler 14,413]

If Bret had gone to JCP in 85, we'd have one 1988 Flair/Hart TV match where they tore the house down and Ric "made him look good" that people would've rediscovered on YouTube in 2009 and freaked out over.